Vanguard - last straw?

[Phroig]

They’ve done away with their ‘original experience’ for listing mutual funds. The new ‘improved/enhanced’ format is terrible.

 

[steelyman]

They’ve done away with their ‘original experience’ for listing mutual funds. The new ‘improved/enhanced’ format is terrible.

It’s gotten (marginally) better. I’ve finally gotten used to having to deposit money in a settlement fund before buying what you want. That seemed to appear when I was switched to a brokerage account.

 

[Scrapr]

I am not going to admit anything but I know of someone who had their older sister answer all the questions for mother... and then say 'you can talk to my son'....

and then come at you with the

"at Vanguard my voice is my password"

 

[Chuckanut]

So, maybe I should find equally low cost index funds at Fidelity and Schwab?

 

[Dtail]

So, maybe I should find equally low cost index funds at Fidelity and Schwab?

Vanguard used to have lower fees than Fidelity, but not anymore.

 

[RunningBum]

So, maybe I should find equally low cost index funds at Fidelity and Schwab?

You don't want to swap funds in taxable, because you'd have to pay in cap gains. Instead, convert to the VG ETF, which is not a taxable transaction. Do it before moving your funds out of Vanguard.

Or so I've heard. I haven't hit a big enough reason to leave VG, but that doesn't mean I'm not ready if I think I'm going to hit an issue like these recent ones recited here.

In an IRA, do whatever you want, with no tax consequences. I don't know if it'd be easier to go to cash before moving funds. There are no corresponding ETF funds for what I have in my IRAs.

 

[Graybeard]

They’ve done away with their ‘original experience’ for listing mutual funds. The new ‘improved/enhanced’ format is terrible.

I couldn't agree more. You can revert back to the old version but you need to do it all the time each time, no way to just use the old display. I just gave up and use the new crap listings but other than checking yields on fixed income I don't need to look at funds' listings anymore. Can't wait to see what they "improve" next!

 

[Graybeard]

Vanguard used to have lower fees than Fidelity, but not anymore.

The differences for their index funds ERs vs Fido or Schwab are pretty insignificant, maybe if you have millions of dollars in a fund but it isn't really a big deal.

 

[tulak]

I couldn't agree more. You can revert back to the old version but you need to do it all the time each time, no way to just use the old display. I just gave up and use the new crap listings but other than checking yields on fixed income I don't need to look at funds' listings anymore. Can't wait to see what they "improve" next!

I’m not happy about this either and in general, I have no complaints with Vanguard.

They are making annoying improvements though. The convert your account to a brokerage account is annoying. I have one account that they bother me about converting, but in order to convert it, I have to mail them paperwork. No thanks. It could be that they’re required to do this, but that’s not my problem and no way am I going out of my way to deal with it.

The website UI improvements are frustrating though. I wanted to compare short term funds yesterday and gave up. Oh well.

 

[mathjak107]

I don't understand Vanguard's policy on this but I don't think they "sell" trusts

They administer and sell them

https://investor.vanguard.com/advice/trust-services

 

[RetMD21]

They administer and sell them

https://investor.vanguard.com/advice/trust-services

That page is all about trust administration and investment management services.

 

[retired1]

The differences for their index funds ERs vs Fido or Schwab are pretty insignificant, maybe if you have millions of dollars in a fund but it isn't really a big deal.

Agreed: FIDO vs. Vanguard charges:

https://www.fidelity.com/mutual-funds/investing-ideas/index-funds

 

[Chuckanut]

Y

In an IRA, do whatever you want, with no tax consequences. I don't know if it'd be easier to go to cash before moving funds. There are no corresponding ETF funds for what I have in my IRAs.

I am not unhappy with Vaguard at this point. Perhaps because I have had no reason to interact with them for several years. I have heard about a decline in service levels as their number of new clients has increased. Then there was the famous Target Date fiasco where people got stuck with tax issues. That was stupid on many levels.

There does seem to be an unsettling change in the attitude of some legendary investment houses that have served the little guys and gals very well. I understand TIAA-CREF has a done a few things that aroused the ire of some customers. Even the US government retirement plan has apparently made some changes that have not been well received.

TIAA, one of the nation's largest and most trusted investment advisory firms, fraudulently pushed tens of thousands of its customers into higher-fee accounts, benefitting the firm but raising investors' costs, according to a settlement with the firm announced today by Letitia James, the New York attorney general, and the federal Securities and Exchange Commission.

New fees for TSP members who buy mutual funds..

Here we go!
For starters, A $95 annual maintenance fee. Hell no. I’m out.!
O no, there’s more!
And A $55 annual fee to cover administrative expenses.
The hell you say? Let me get this straight.
There are two separate annual fees!
Yep.
I’ve seen enough.
O there’s more!
$28.75 per trade.
That’s buying into or out of a mutual fund.

 

[jazz4cash]

New fees for TSP members who buy mutual funds..

It’s worth emphasizing these fees only apply if participants choose to invest in the new mutual fund option. I think its good that these costs are not shared by participants that do not choose that option. That said, they have made several changes that make me think they are losing sight of what is best for most participants. Some changes have been positive but the expenses increases are huge.

Edit: The revamped website is also getting terrible ratings. I’m undecided but the old site was fine IMO.

 

[Chuckanut]

It’s worth emphasizing these fees only apply if participants choose to invest in the new mutual fund option. I think its good that these costs are not shared by participants that do not choose that option. That said, they have made several changes that make me think they are losing sight of what is best for most participants. Some changes have been positive but the expenses increases are huge.

Edit: The revamped website is also getting terrible ratings. I’m undecided but the old site was fine IMO.

Good point. As I understand it, people can stay within the boundaries of the traditional plan and avoid the fees.

I think what scares some people is the idea of a hoard of FAs descending on government workers, enlistees, etc. and steering them towards products that generate more commissions and fees for the investment company, and less returns for the working people. That's is what I am picking up.

 

[Texas Proud]

You don't want to swap funds in taxable, because you'd have to pay in cap gains. Instead, convert to the VG ETF, which is not a taxable transaction. Do it before moving your funds out of Vanguard.

Or so I've heard. I haven't hit a big enough reason to leave VG, but that doesn't mean I'm not ready if I think I'm going to hit an issue like these recent ones recited here.

In an IRA, do whatever you want, with no tax consequences. I don't know if it'd be easier to go to cash before moving funds. There are no corresponding ETF funds for what I have in my IRAs.

There are a lot of mutual funds that do not have an ETF... I think with my funds there was one in eight...


Edit to add.... I would bet that all brokerage firms would take your account even with mutual funds.... it is not like they cannot have them in your account.

 

[Texas Proud]

Agreed: FIDO vs. Vanguard charges:

https://www.fidelity.com/mutual-funds/investing-ideas/index-funds

WOW, I knew they had zero expense funds but I did not know they had so many that were cheaper...


It would be interesting to compare them over time to see the difference...

 

[nwsteve]

WOW, I knew they had zero expense funds but I did not know they had so many that were cheaper...


It would be interesting to compare them over time to see the difference...

Fidelity has a neat tool that whenever you want to research an ETF, it displays a chart that shows the ETF compared to 4/5 other etfs it views as comparable. The chart allows you to see comparisons 1,3,5, life You can edit that table and replace any suggested ETF with another you find more interesting. I have noticed that Fido often will not show a Vanguard etf in the initial comparison, but it is easy to drop one of the etfs and replace with the Vanguard etf you want to compare. Frankly, Vanguard's etfs are often tnot he highest total return option.

 

[tulak]

Well, it looks like it’s my turn to have a bad Vanguard experience. I’m reallocating my FI with the idea of buying treasuries in an IRA at Vanguard.

I’m logged into Vanguard, select ‘Trade bonds or CDs’, and it redirects me to a page where nothing is displayed. I’ve tried this a few different ways and nothing shows up.

I’m on hold with Vanguard right now. They offer to call me back and originally said it’d be 8-15 min wait. I decided to wait. Their timing is not accurate. It went down to 6 min, then back up to 21 min, went to 14 min and now back at 22 min. On hold for 30 min so far. Hilarious.

I’m mildly annoyed that I have to call them for something that should just work. I’m also skeptical that they’ll be able to solve the problem easily. I’ve tried this on multiple computers, cleared the cache, etc.

Looks like the universe is telling me to move on…

 

[harllee]

Well, it looks like it’s my turn to have a bad Vanguard experience. I’m reallocating my FI with the idea of buying treasuries in an IRA at Vanguard.

I’m logged into Vanguard, select ‘Trade bonds or CDs’, and it redirects me to a page where nothing is displayed. I’ve tried this a few different ways and nothing shows up.

I’m on hold with Vanguard right now. They offer to call me back and originally said it’d be 8-15 min wait. I decided to wait. Their timing is not accurate. It went down to 6 min, then back up to 21 min, went to 14 min and now back at 22 min. On hold for 30 min so far. Hilarious.

I’m mildly annoyed that I have to call them for something that should just work. I’m also skeptical that they’ll be able to solve the problem easily. I’ve tried this on multiple computers, cleared the cache, etc.

Looks like the universe is telling me to move on…

The Vanguard page for bonds and CDs is a pop up page so if you have pop ups blocked it will be blank. I cannot get it to open on Safari but it will open on Firefox if I do not have pop ups blocked. Try allowing pop ups or use another browser or both.

 

[MRG]

Well, it looks like it’s my turn to have a bad Vanguard experience. I’m reallocating my FI with the idea of buying treasuries in an IRA at Vanguard.

I’m logged into Vanguard, select ‘Trade bonds or CDs’, and it redirects me to a page where nothing is displayed. I’ve tried this a few different ways and nothing shows up.

I’m on hold with Vanguard right now. They offer to call me back and originally said it’d be 8-15 min wait. I decided to wait. Their timing is not accurate. It went down to 6 min, then back up to 21 min, went to 14 min and now back at 22 min. On hold for 30 min so far. Hilarious.

I’m mildly annoyed that I have to call them for something that should just work. I’m also skeptical that they’ll be able to solve the problem easily. I’ve tried this on multiple computers, cleared the cache, etc.

Looks like the universe is telling me to move on…

You understand what is generating the estimates? Not Vanguard, it's the PBX(vendor's software) based on queue depth and the average call length. The data are dynamic and when data changes the estimates are updated..... any provider has the same issue.

 

[tulak]

The Vanguard page for bonds and CDs is a pop up page so if you have pop ups blocked it will be blank. I cannot get it to open on Safari but it will open on Firefox if I do not have pop ups blocked. Try allowing pop ups or use another browser or both.

Ah, that makes sense. On other websites, I usually get a notification that a pop-up was blocked and I can override it. That's what I have to do with my credit union. For Vanguard, it just sits there.

You understand what is generating the estimates? Not Vanguard, it's the PBX(vendor's software) based on queue depth and the average call length. The data are dynamic and when data changes the estimates are updated..... any provider has the same issue.

I know, but you'd think they could estimate this better? Over 50 min and still on hold.

I'm going to move on at this point, since I think Harllee has identified the issue. Thanks!

 

[Chuckanut]

The Vanguard page for bonds and CDs is a pop up page so if you have pop ups blocked it will be blank. I cannot get it to open on Safari but it will open on Firefox if I do not have pop ups blocked. Try allowing pop ups or use another browser or both.

Sadly, many web page developers create web pages that work great on their equipment, but not so well on the customer's equipment. Not everybody uses the Chrome browser, on a contemporary machine that uses the latest version of Windows, MacOS or whatever.

Oh, if you have a VPN try turning that off. Sadly, I have found financial sites that don't like VPNs, even though when out and about, a VPN would be a good safety precaution.

 

[tulak]

Ah, that makes sense. On other websites, I usually get a notification that a pop-up was blocked and I can override it. That's what I have to do with my credit union. For Vanguard, it just sits there.

The issue I had with Safari and Vanguard was not due to blocked pop-ups, but with 'prevent cross-site tracking' being enabled. Once I disabled this, the content appeared on Vanguard. That solves my problem. I'll disable/enable this whenever trying to research/buy bonds at Vanguard.

Edit to add: Safari lets you see the trackers. There are 5 of them and one of them is linkedin.com (why?) and another is adsymptotic.com, which doesn't look great based on a quick google search. I bailed on Lastpass because of trackers and I might do the same with Vanguard.

 

[tulak]

Sadly, many web page developers create web pages that work great on their equipment, but not so well on the customer's equipment. Not everybody uses the Chrome browser, on a contemporary machine that uses the latest version of Windows, MacOS or whatever.

You can't always blame the web page developers. In my case, it's because Apple added a new feature to Safari for extra privacy that broke Vanguard's website. So now Vanguard has to try each new version of popular web browsers to make sure their website continues to work?

Of course they should, but solving the problem might not be easy, even if they are aware that it's broken. It would be nice if they could at least give some error message when this happens: you're on Safari and with this feature enabled you can't render this page or something like that.