Well Water Plumbing Leak Issues?

[ExFlyBoy5]

Long story short...we live in a home that was built 15 years ago and is on a well. Over the last year we (and most of our other neighbors) have had issues with fittings (mostly brass) corroding and causing leaks. Most of the plumbers immediately declare "HARD WATER!" as a culprit but 2 of the neighbors have had water softeners installed from day one and still have the problem. As an aside, we have a 20 gallon pressure tank and digital pressure controller, so the system is always under pressure. We also use a hot water circulator pump about 18 hours out of the day.

Some research and basic chemistry understanding (from dealing with a swimming pool) led me in the direction of a low pH. Testing at the well head and interior faucets shows a pH of about 6.5 with a Taylor test kit as well as a pH meter. So, all signs pointed to getting an acid reducer to stop/slow down the process. Also, all the affected fittings also had the tell tale blue staining, especially around the cooper fittings.

So, I took a water sample (actually two...drawn 48 hours apart) to our local university for testing (attached). All the tests show pretty normal numbers and a very normal pH. The only thing I can figure is that the low pH may have increased with handling and transport. No other numbers seem to show anything that would cause this type of corrosion.

So, for those of you with a well...or a good understanding of chemistry (mine stopped at the 10th grade level) what are your thoughts? I don't want to drop $1,000+ on an acid reducer that won't do any good.

 

[freedomatlast]

SIL had the same issues with well water PH, testing between 6.3 to 6.6 and ended up getting the acid neutralizer. They were getting pinhole leaks in copper plumbing at various places in the house and the house was 25 years old at the time. No issues since.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

SIL had the same issues with well water PH, testing between 6.3 to 6.6 and ended up getting the acid neutralizer. They were getting pinhole leaks in copper plumbing at various places in the house and the house was 25 years old at the time. No issues since.

That's good to hear. There seems to be little to no information on the acid neutralizers around my area; the companies only want to sell expensive (and in my opinion useless) water softeners. We lived in San Antonio, TX for many years and are very familiar with hard water issues...we don't have that in these parts.

 

[freedomatlast]

That's good to hear. There seems to be little to no information on the acid neutralizers around my area; the companies only want to sell expensive (and in my opinion useless) water softeners. We lived in San Antonio, TX for many years and are very familiar with hard water issues...we don't have that in these parts.

The addition of a water softener for this issue doesn't make any sense to me, especially since most water softeners actually add salt to the system which won't do a thing to help with corrosion issues, and may actually make the problem worse, depending the plumbing materials used in the house.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

The addition of a water softener for this issue doesn't make any sense to me, especially since most water softeners actually add salt to the system which won't do a thing to help with corrosion issues, and may actually make the problem worse, depending the plumbing materials used in the house.

That was also my thought but the plumbers around here seem to swear by them. I imagine they are great money makers for them.

 

[braumeister]

Based on my water analysis experience (as a brewer) I would call your water VERY soft. Not good for brewing beer without substantial additions, but good for drinking and shouldn't cause any problem for the system.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Based on my water analysis experience (as a brewer) I would call your water VERY soft. Not good for brewing beer without substantial additions, but good for drinking and shouldn't cause any problem for the system.

Yeah, that was my thought, too. I went to the pool store to compare my pH testing with what their "expert" equipment showed. They have it at 6.3 which is pretty in line with what I was coming up with. So, acid reducer it is!

 

[braumeister]

Yeah, that was my thought, too. I went to the pool store to compare my pH testing with what their "expert" equipment showed. They have it at 6.3 which is pretty in line with what I was coming up with. So, acid reducer it is!

Don't go overboard with it. Ideally you just want it to be slightly alkaline, a bit over 7.0.

 

[mountainsoft]

we live in a home that was built 15 years ago and is on a well. Over the last year we (and most of our other neighbors) have had issues with fittings (mostly brass) corroding and causing leaks.

Here in the PNW we tend to have acidic water. The last time I had our water tested (1991) it showed a PH level of 6.1. We do NOT have a softener or acid reducer in our system.

I knew acidic water could eventually cause pinhole leaks in copper piping, so I plumbed our system using PVC and CPVC. Today I would probably opt for PEX but the pipe, tools, and fittings were not widely available back then.

Of course, we still have some copper and brass fittings in our system. Some out in the well house, adapters at faucets and hot water tank, etc. Thankfully, after 30+ years on the property with acidic water, we have never had an issue with any leaking pipe or fitting (caused by the water anyway).

If you're having issues after just 15 years, I would think you have thin gauge copper piping, and/or you are experiencing galvanic corrosion, such as copper fittings attaching to steel. You may need to isolate the two metals where they connect (using PEX or special adapters).

In any case, if water is causing fittings to leak, I would be concerned about the whole plumbing system developing leaks. You may have a whole house repipe in your future....? Let's hope not.

 

[MC Rider]

special adapters

A di electric union? I think it's called?Better to fix these things before they leak and cause damage. We repiped our place after we moved in back in 2010 due to 50+ year old crusty galvanized pipes.

 

[mountainsoft]

special adapters

A di electric union?

Yeah, that's a common example, often seen at water heater connections. Another option is to introduce a section of plastic pipe between two dissimilar metals (copper and steel for instance). That could be as simple as a plastic nipple between female threaded metal adapters. Or you could add a section of PEX or CPVC pipe between the copper pipe and the fixture (valve, etc.).

 

[ImThinkin2019]

Our well water has a PH like 5 or so. I don't recall exactly what it was but very acidic. Blue stains in shower pan, brown in toilet when we bought the house.

Plumbing is copper throughout the house.

The prior owners had a water softener provided and serviced by Culligan. The salt reservoir was filled to overflowing because they kept up monthly salt deliveries. Dishonest!!

We determined the water softener did not reduce pH. So we added a neutralizer and replaced the copper tubing between the pressure tank and the neutralizer with CPVC. No issues since.

We installed it and service it ourselves. Service is just to add mineral about every 6 months. We check the mineral level by shining a flashlight through the tank.

 

[jollystomper]

I knew acidic water could eventually cause pinhole leaks in copper piping, so I plumbed our system using PVC and CPVC. Today I would probably opt for PEX but the pipe, tools, and fittings were not widely available back then.

We did the same thing. We were in a similar situation will well water and acidic PH levels. We eventually took the "nuclear" option of replacing all of the copper pipe in our home with CPVC. We did it in stages. First the exposed pipe and fittings in the basement, as that was where the problems started. Then, when we were tired on bathroom repairs, renovated the bathrooms and replaced their pipes and connectors to the main line. Finally did the last branches from the basement to the first floor water sources a couple of years ago.

 

[street]

Interesting topic and some great information and timely for me. A couple weeks ago I ordered litmus paper stripes to test water at ranch and well water at home. Neither wells we use for drinking just for irrigation and watering plants and or livestock.

Both shallow wells, show an alkaline level. I'm guess from the color of the litmus paper that I'm about 8 to 9 PH. In both wells plants and lawn does very well using the water. Fish will live in both with no problems. Where the ranch well is at the ranchers there said, they can't use their water-to-water plants because it will kill them, and fish won't live in the water either.

The only difference is they are down about 100 feet and I'm at about 20 feet. I'm also about 2 miles from another well.

 

[Koolau]

Interesting topic and some great information and timely for me. A couple weeks ago I ordered litmus paper stripes to test water at ranch and well water at home. Neither wells we use for drinking just for irrigation and watering plants and or livestock.

Both shallow wells, show an alkaline level. I'm guess from the color of the litmus paper that I'm about 8 to 9 PH. In both wells plants and lawn does very well using the water. Fish will live in both with no problems. Where the ranch well is at the ranchers there said, they can't use their water-to-water plants because it will kill them, and fish won't live in the water either.

The only difference is they are down about 100 feet and I'm at about 20 feet. I'm also about 2 miles from another well.

IIRC you can buy pH test paper that differentiates to .2 pH units (it's been a long time.) 1 pH unit is quite a bit when it comes to drinkable water (or water for plants, etc.) I'd look a bit closer if the results are critical to you.

Back in the day, I had access to my "own" pH meter (at megacorp, of course.) But as someone mentioned, sampling and transporting water is often problematic. Half the technology is in the sampling. YMMV

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Interesting topic and some great information and timely for me. A couple weeks ago I ordered litmus paper stripes to test water at ranch and well water at home. Neither wells we use for drinking just for irrigation and watering plants and or livestock.

Both shallow wells, show an alkaline level. I'm guess from the color of the litmus paper that I'm about 8 to 9 PH. In both wells plants and lawn does very well using the water. Fish will live in both with no problems. Where the ranch well is at the ranchers there said, they can't use their water-to-water plants because it will kill them, and fish won't live in the water either.

The only difference is they are down about 100 feet and I'm at about 20 feet. I'm also about 2 miles from another well.

I would recommend looking to a local extension office...they often have great testing resources and are usually pretty cheap. The two tests I attached cost me $19. They might also offer soil sample testing which is also very helpful and usually pretty cheap, too.

Thanks to all who have offered their experiences. Of course, the acid reducer I was considering is now out of stock.

 

[Koolau]

I'm wondering if replacing the fittings every 15 years might be cheaper than installing an acid reducer (what consumables, maintenance are involved?). YMMV

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

I'm wondering if replacing the fittings every 15 years might be cheaper than installing an acid reducer (what consumables, maintenance are involved?). YMMV

In some case, perhaps. However...many of the fitting are behind dry wall so that makes it pretty expensive to replace. Plus, since we have PEX...it would be nearly impossible to know where all the fittings might be. We did have all the valves we could access with ease changed, 22 of them that I recall. We still need to deal with the geothermal pump and some of the well/pressure tank fittings as they too have corrosion. The acid reducer I would like costs about $1500 installed.

Ah, home ownership...the GREAT American Dream!

 

[Music Lover]

As an aside, we have a 20 gallon pressure tank and digital pressure controller, so the system is always under pressure.

That shouldn't be the problem, those without a well also have water under pressure in the entire system.

 

[street]

Thanks ExFlyBoy5 and Koolau.

 

[CatinKS]

I'm retired from a utility company. To protect the steel pipelines DC cathodic is induced on anodes that carry the current from the anode back to the steel pipe to prevent corrosion. In my past have seen where the current jumps on steel fence post, water wells, resident neutral power line which causes corrosion on metal objects instead of the anode bed. I would first check if some type of cathodic system is located nearby or if you have some other low level electrical stray current. Probably, not the issue, but I have seen homeowners spend months and replace water pumps etc before realizing this ,

 

[euro]

I'm wondering if replacing the fittings every 15 years might be cheaper than installing an acid reducer (what consumables, maintenance are involved?). YMMV

Worth considering. Especially if you replace the copper with PEX tubing

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

I'm retired from a utility company. To protect the steel pipelines DC cathodic is induced on anodes that carry the current from the anode back to the steel pipe to prevent corrosion. In my past have seen where the current jumps on steel fence post, water wells, resident neutral power line which causes corrosion on metal objects instead of the anode bed. I would first check if some type of cathodic system is located nearby or if you have some other low level electrical stray current. Probably, not the issue, but I have seen homeowners spend months and replace water pumps etc before realizing this ,

That is somewhat interesting. We have high tension power lines that aren't too far away. We have "looked" for stray current when DW's drone started flying a bit crazy but didn't come up with anything conclusive.

 

[Koolau]

In some case, perhaps. However...many of the fitting are behind dry wall so that makes it pretty expensive to replace. Plus, since we have PEX...it would be nearly impossible to know where all the fittings might be. We did have all the valves we could access with ease changed, 22 of them that I recall. We still need to deal with the geothermal pump and some of the well/pressure tank fittings as they too have corrosion. The acid reducer I would like costs about $1500 installed.

Ah, home ownership...the GREAT American Dream!

Yes, I remember those days - living in a real house. Even our concrete egg-crate condo is having internal walls torn out this month to replace old pipes. It never ends.