second_act_at_42
Dryer sheet wannabe
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Updating the timeline in Firecalc to 30 yrs also yields 100% - just with different low-mean-max ending scenario(s).
What is 6 months worth?
- Thread starter second_act_at_42
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second_act_at_42
Dryer sheet wannabe
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Great suggestion on $$/300 - that's good to keep in mind. There are also other considerations such as vacation home/rental or other non-market investments / purchases that we'd be able to forward above and beyond FI targets.
Your points about language are really helpful as well. Good to keep in mind. From your description - I do feel closer to the "ready to retire" mentality but am definitely questioning many things at the moment. I'm sure I'll look back on this and other replies in the coming weeks and months as DW and I make some decisions. Cheers.
enjoyinglife102
Recycles dryer sheets
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I often read about the concern of leaving money on the table. I was more concerned with leaving life on the table. Focus on projected healthy years that are left for sure but never forget there are no guarantees of having any year left. I was grateful I had something many of the forever working high net worth people never have - enough!
+1 This January my sister in law had passed away at 52. She was healthy and worked for the Stanford, planned to retire at 55 but we never know what is around the corner.
Lawrencewendall
Full time employment: Posting here.
Exactly!
W2R
Moderator Emeritus
+1
"Nothing lasts forever but the earth and sky
It slips away
And all your money won't another minute buy"
- - Kansas, Dust in the Wind
Or, another way of saying the same thing:
jollystomper
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
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When I joined this forum in 2012 and presented my numbers, the general feedback I received was that I was FI and could retire. Among my factors for working longer - which, as has been mentioned, are purely personal and do not apply to everyone - were the following:
- Though others said I was FI, I did not want to make assumptions that it would be smooth sailing and decided to keep working to build an additional buffer, I set a number for that buffer and was able to achieve that.
- Megacorp was laying off groups of people several times a year, seemingly at random. Though I knew my job was in good standing, I did not make assumptions. My thought was that if Megacorp did lay me off after 2012, that was fine with we, and i was mentally prepared for that. It did not happen.
- My job was not a burden to me, and still very enjoyable. Some aspect of job stress declined. For example, Even though we "officially" had to be in the office every day, I had wise management who let it be known that as long as we were meeting our objectives and could be reached in a timely matter, they would not be wasting their time tracking when we were in or out of the office. I still came in about 3 times a week. It was good prep for when our office closed and I began officially working from home for about 3 years before I retired.
- Also for work, I was able to implement my our personal "glide path" for my last 2 years at work, that saw me still meet my objectives but start transferring work and responsibility to others (and allowing others to get the associated "glory"), which also eased work stress.
- Though my pension was "frozen" based on salary, it still grew based on time, The growth curve of the pension flattened at age 60 and maxed out at 65. At 60 the pension reached a nice "target" number and I felt working for further growth beyond that was not worth it.
- I wanted to get some major, hopefully one time expenses out of the way and pay for them with my paycheck. Things like new roof, new driveway, renovated bathrooms, final tuition payments for youngest child, etc.
- I was not just thinking about myself, but DW, so wanted to make sure what I had would also mean she would not have to work in the event of me dying first. It was a balance, as she was afraid of me not enjoying what I had accumulated and leaving her too rich a widow.
In theory I could have retired at 54, but everything has lined up by 58 and my "glide path" took me to 60. I do not consider those 6 years "lost", as I was very much able to control much of my Megacorp workload for myself and my team, in ways that are still benefiting me now. Did I think about the value of time vs money? Yes, almost every day. I had one health scare during that time that turned out to be minor, and that factored in as well. But again, it is an individual decision on when one decides time is more valuable than money.
- Though others said I was FI, I did not want to make assumptions that it would be smooth sailing and decided to keep working to build an additional buffer, I set a number for that buffer and was able to achieve that.
- Megacorp was laying off groups of people several times a year, seemingly at random. Though I knew my job was in good standing, I did not make assumptions. My thought was that if Megacorp did lay me off after 2012, that was fine with we, and i was mentally prepared for that. It did not happen.
- My job was not a burden to me, and still very enjoyable. Some aspect of job stress declined. For example, Even though we "officially" had to be in the office every day, I had wise management who let it be known that as long as we were meeting our objectives and could be reached in a timely matter, they would not be wasting their time tracking when we were in or out of the office. I still came in about 3 times a week. It was good prep for when our office closed and I began officially working from home for about 3 years before I retired.
- Also for work, I was able to implement my our personal "glide path" for my last 2 years at work, that saw me still meet my objectives but start transferring work and responsibility to others (and allowing others to get the associated "glory"), which also eased work stress.
- Though my pension was "frozen" based on salary, it still grew based on time, The growth curve of the pension flattened at age 60 and maxed out at 65. At 60 the pension reached a nice "target" number and I felt working for further growth beyond that was not worth it.
- I wanted to get some major, hopefully one time expenses out of the way and pay for them with my paycheck. Things like new roof, new driveway, renovated bathrooms, final tuition payments for youngest child, etc.
- I was not just thinking about myself, but DW, so wanted to make sure what I had would also mean she would not have to work in the event of me dying first. It was a balance, as she was afraid of me not enjoying what I had accumulated and leaving her too rich a widow.
In theory I could have retired at 54, but everything has lined up by 58 and my "glide path" took me to 60. I do not consider those 6 years "lost", as I was very much able to control much of my Megacorp workload for myself and my team, in ways that are still benefiting me now. Did I think about the value of time vs money? Yes, almost every day. I had one health scare during that time that turned out to be minor, and that factored in as well. But again, it is an individual decision on when one decides time is more valuable than money.
Ready
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Have you tried running Firecalc where you calculate what annual spend gives you a 100% success rate? This can be really helpful. Traditionally you put in an annual spend, like $100K and ask Firecalc to tell you the percentage of success/failures. So it may tell you that at $100K/year you are at 100% success.
But if you run the calculation in reverse you may find that you could really spend up to $150K at 100% success. This helps give you perspective on how much cushion you have if you want to ratchet up your lifestyle and still be comfortable with having enough to live on.
My 100% number was three times what we typically spend each year. When I saw how much cushion we had I knew it was time, and that unless I wanted to triple my spending I was just working to have a bigger pot to leave to our beneficiaries when we are gone.
ClearSky_CalmSeas
Dryer sheet wannabe
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My spouse and I are FI. I'm planning to retire in March, using these last few months to accumulate extra cash cushion from my salary plus bonus & stock to be paid in early 2021.
One of my dearest friends has stage 4 cancer, recently spread to a new organ. What is 6 months worth to her? Every second with her family and friends is priceless.
It's a difficult balance between securing extra security for you and your heirs and running up the score too high and running out of time with them.
One of my dearest friends has stage 4 cancer, recently spread to a new organ. What is 6 months worth to her? Every second with her family and friends is priceless.
It's a difficult balance between securing extra security for you and your heirs and running up the score too high and running out of time with them.
brett
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
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I was ready to go. But...I waited another 8-10 months for a package to come.
It meant pushing me over the magic age 55 mark which allowed full pension at 62, earlier for a 3 point reduction. Plus some benefits. But just under two years of salary and bonus plus two additional years towards my pension number was the real kicker. It was well worth the wait for me.
If it had been a straight six months and out with no package or little impact on pension I would not have worked an extra six months. But this is easy to say now, looking in the rear view mirror and realizing how valuable retirement time in good health really is
It meant pushing me over the magic age 55 mark which allowed full pension at 62, earlier for a 3 point reduction. Plus some benefits. But just under two years of salary and bonus plus two additional years towards my pension number was the real kicker. It was well worth the wait for me.
If it had been a straight six months and out with no package or little impact on pension I would not have worked an extra six months. But this is easy to say now, looking in the rear view mirror and realizing how valuable retirement time in good health really is
This is me. So I don't have an equation for you.
But this pandemic is not much past 6 months and it has certainly felt "long" to most of us.
Slightly off topic but that feeling that I would rather not work forever is why I may retire the poorest person on this forum. But you know mom died at 56. So did grandma. . . .
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I am no where close to FI but I down-shifted 3 years ago to a job that offers me more free time with about 15% pay cut. The point is: only you can decide how much your time is worth to you. I have always believed in "time>money" equation. To me time is priceless.
street
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
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It comes down to more love for money or time. Six months more isn't a very long time to commit for the value you are going to receive in benefits.
I would not even consider 6 month more of pile on if I was miserable at work, if I already was FI.
I also beleive age is a huge factor in this decision.
I would not even consider 6 month more of pile on if I was miserable at work, if I already was FI.
I also beleive age is a huge factor in this decision.
Markola
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
SecondCor521, your post would be a useful stand-alone string, perhaps with a friendly amendment requesting common post-FIRE states. After four months and a change of seasons from summer to winter, I’m moving past Sheer Bliss & Relief into some state of, “OK, what’s next?”
second_act_at_42
Dryer sheet wannabe
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Thanks for this! Such a good perspective to keep in mind. Really enjoying this community.
Unpaintedhuffhines
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What a great topic. I'm struggling with this now. I love the quote "leaving life on the table," because I'm staring at future RSUs that will vest "just a few months down the road." at which point there will be more "just a few months down the road." At some point, I'll walk away from a lot. Maybe that time needs to be now.
I'm pretty close to pulling the trigger. Firecalc says 100%, even if I bump my expenses up by $40K/year, and one of the things I liked about my job is I would travel internationally frequently, and, well, covid, so that's gone. Great discussion topic.
I'm pretty close to pulling the trigger. Firecalc says 100%, even if I bump my expenses up by $40K/year, and one of the things I liked about my job is I would travel internationally frequently, and, well, covid, so that's gone. Great discussion topic.
I was "fat FI" for many years before I left the workforce. At one time, I lost my job because I got sick (yes, illegal) but I went nuts at home and went back to work. Finally I reached the point where I did not feel excited about my job and felt I had other things I'd rather do. I walked away and have not missed it since.
Rambler
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
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For me, the last year, and of course the last 6 months, made a significant addition to our comfort level. One can be pretty FI but become pretty nervous in a 35% downturn...that extra time for me took the edge off those nerves.
Retired Expat
Full time employment: Posting here.
My perspective recently changed..... I retired early at about 53 but now at 61 was thinking about going back to work. Am FI and secure but just recently a former colleague passed away at the ripe young age of 63... he never stopped working, was again single quite wealthy but died alone and to all accounts unhappy.
We never know when the end will come but if I were to die tomorrow it would be okay because these past 8 years have been the best of my life. However, retirement made me much healthier and in better shape than 20. years ago so I should be good for many more. Heck my resting pulse is low 50’s and my doctor can’t believe it.
Unless work is immensely gratifying and there is nothing you would rather do, then by all means keep working. But if you have enough money and things you would rather do, with people you would rather be with why no do that. It could all be over before you know it!
second_act_at_42
Dryer sheet wannabe
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Thanks for sharing your story/journey! I've received similar feedback from friends and other forum members: keep working only if it is exactly what I want to be doing with my time.
I'm at the point where I can honestly say that the work aspect isn't exactly what I want to be doing with my time - but the financial incentives and my age make it appealing to see what's around the corner...
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https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/longevity.cgi
Small quibble, male life expectancy at 82 is closer to 7 1/2 years. More for female , of course. I looked at years before 75. These as a proportion start dropping rapidly at 60. Folks in my family have lived long but have had pretty limited opportunities after 75.
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No one knows how long their road is. I would say if you have the means to do something else you would rather be doing... then you should go. At the end of their lives, no one EVER says, “I wish I could have finished X at work”.
My favorite quote is from Terry Goodkind who sadly just recently passed away. “Your life is yours, and yours alone.... rise up and live it!”
So this becomes the one more half year dilemma. I think everyone has their own comfort level for how much is enough. And I can certainly understand going a little beyond whatever you consider to be enough just to have a buffer of comfort built into your numbers.
I will say that one more year or in this case one more half year can provide you the quickest financial means to build in that extra amount of money. Leaving the workforce and then attempting to come back might mean taking lower paying work and having to trade more of your time to get to that same amount of extra cash.
I think it also depends on how you view your job. If it’s high stress and generally undesirable work that plays a big factor into this kind of decision. But even if you don’t hate your job there does come a point where you would rather do other things with your time.
I guess I’ve never had a job where the financial incentives were high enough to make me even think twice about staying much after becoming financially independent. For me it would take a pretty significant amount of money to add on time at the end of my career rather than just quitting when I know I have enough. It’s a great problem to have if the incentives are there but your life does have a finite amount of time to enjoy.
I will say that one more year or in this case one more half year can provide you the quickest financial means to build in that extra amount of money. Leaving the workforce and then attempting to come back might mean taking lower paying work and having to trade more of your time to get to that same amount of extra cash.
I think it also depends on how you view your job. If it’s high stress and generally undesirable work that plays a big factor into this kind of decision. But even if you don’t hate your job there does come a point where you would rather do other things with your time.
I guess I’ve never had a job where the financial incentives were high enough to make me even think twice about staying much after becoming financially independent. For me it would take a pretty significant amount of money to add on time at the end of my career rather than just quitting when I know I have enough. It’s a great problem to have if the incentives are there but your life does have a finite amount of time to enjoy.
second_act_at_42
Dryer sheet wannabe
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Reading this spurred a thought that I hadn't considered before - but one that's been lurking in the background for sometime. Given my age, I guess I feel like I'm still "in the middle of my career" rather than at the end of it. "End" of career still feels tied to 55+ yrs of age in my mind rather then the point at which one becomes FI. In fact - I don't think I've ever linked retirement with financial independence before learning about FIRE. Retirement has always seemed like a late stage in life rather then a decision. So perhaps that belief is also contributing to this 6-more-months-dilema.
Lots of good points already made here so I will just add a couple of ideas:
1) With respect to your career, have you achieved what you want to achieve in terms of accomplishments, stature, respect, influence, satisfaction (whatever factors are important to you)? And if not, can you achieve those with your current employer?
Note: I've had a really interesting career, with some high profile, high impact, high-earning experiences in several countries. When I was laid off from one position in 2016, I held the title of Senior Vice President (which was quite senior in our multinational company). At that point, I felt like I had accomplished all I needed to accomplish - by the age of 52 - and I'm only working now for $ and pleasure. By contrast, my husband had experienced some bad luck and bad timing in his career and right now, he feels like he wants to accomplish more, put his M.Sc. in IT to better use, and ideally have a leadership/strategic role in a company. So he's not ready to retire.
If you want to accomplish more and can't do it at your current employer, keep in mind that it is usually easier to get a new job while you're still employed - so you might want to hang on until you've secured other employment or set yourself up for an entrepreneurial pivot.
2) Are there any foreseeable, at least somewhat likely scenarios where your expenses could increase considerably? If so, you might want to do at least one OMY.
Note: We don't have kids (and have no plans to adopt). Our parents on one side of the family are financially very comfortable, and we have one parent on the other side of the family who is frugal but who receives some modest financial support from us and likely will need somewhat more in the next few years. We don't have any siblings who need our support either. We don't have any major health issues (knock on wood) now and we live in Canada so even if something horrendous happened the costs would be manageable. Neither of us has a major spending problem (although I wouldn't call us uber-frugal) - but we don't have to worry about someone unexpectedly coming home with an unbudgeted for car or running off to a casino.
1) With respect to your career, have you achieved what you want to achieve in terms of accomplishments, stature, respect, influence, satisfaction (whatever factors are important to you)? And if not, can you achieve those with your current employer?
Note: I've had a really interesting career, with some high profile, high impact, high-earning experiences in several countries. When I was laid off from one position in 2016, I held the title of Senior Vice President (which was quite senior in our multinational company). At that point, I felt like I had accomplished all I needed to accomplish - by the age of 52 - and I'm only working now for $ and pleasure. By contrast, my husband had experienced some bad luck and bad timing in his career and right now, he feels like he wants to accomplish more, put his M.Sc. in IT to better use, and ideally have a leadership/strategic role in a company. So he's not ready to retire.
If you want to accomplish more and can't do it at your current employer, keep in mind that it is usually easier to get a new job while you're still employed - so you might want to hang on until you've secured other employment or set yourself up for an entrepreneurial pivot.
2) Are there any foreseeable, at least somewhat likely scenarios where your expenses could increase considerably? If so, you might want to do at least one OMY.
Note: We don't have kids (and have no plans to adopt). Our parents on one side of the family are financially very comfortable, and we have one parent on the other side of the family who is frugal but who receives some modest financial support from us and likely will need somewhat more in the next few years. We don't have any siblings who need our support either. We don't have any major health issues (knock on wood) now and we live in Canada so even if something horrendous happened the costs would be manageable. Neither of us has a major spending problem (although I wouldn't call us uber-frugal) - but we don't have to worry about someone unexpectedly coming home with an unbudgeted for car or running off to a casino.
