You need to work past 70! (But we don't want you)

[youbet]

They need to keep an open mind and be on the ball to learn new things.

+1. Yes, indeed.

And they need to think like entrepreneurs and always be planning how to monetize a hobby or other activity. I challenge my 42 yr old son with the questions "how would you support the family if your job vanished and you were not allowed to be an employee anywhere any longer? What options do you have other than working within the traditional employment system?"

A lucky few of today's youngsters will work for the gov't or Mega for decades (and bitch about it the entire time!) and retire traditionally. Many, however, will have to be nimble and find unpredictable ways to support themselves over their working years and into retirement.

 

[kgtest]

I work with older folks. I am 35 they are all close to 60. I've taught them the same skills I taught myself when I bagan my career. This little lesson has been invaluable. I literally do the same thing I did 10years ago, I make 3x as much and its still relevant 10 years later. I don't suspect at this pace my career will need to last much longer than 30years.

On the flip, before switching to IT I was watching guys in their 40s popping Oxycontin to get past the pain their bodies felt from 20years of construction.

It takes smart people to build homes and manage IT services...but smart people know that working construction has its shelf life...so does IT...just for different reasons.

 

[broadway]

The way this fantasy works is, no matter what circumstance you find yourself in years in the future, no mater how hard you worked, or home many bells and whistles you've picked up and added on to yourself, they will tell you: Whatever you did you should have done something else. And that's why you can't find work

In other words blame the victim.

I used to remember that having an engineering degree from a well-regarded state university meant that you are given the benefit of the doubt of being able to "pick up new things quickly" - which I am to do - but not anymore. Unless you have exactly and I mean exactly what they want, they won't even talk to you.

I was told that someone went in for an interview at Johnson and Johnson. This person had 18 out of 20 of the required elements. This person was not selected, because they were confident they could get 20 out of 20.

 

[youbet]

The way this fantasy works is, no matter what circumstance you find yourself in years in the future, no mater how hard you worked, or home many bells and whistles you've picked up and added on to yourself, they will tell you: Whatever you did you should have done something else. And that's why you can't find work

Sorta...... But I think the real reason seniors can't find work is that they fail to show employers how hiring them will result in more additional profitability to the employer vs the next best candidate. Records of historical performance and credentials might be relevant but I think it's mainly the perception of what you're going to do for them NOW.

 

[JoeWras]

On the flip, before switching to IT I was watching guys in their 40s popping Oxycontin to get past the pain their bodies felt from 20years of construction.

Yes. This topic has been knowledge worker related, but it is even more appropriate for laborers. Don't know how we'll have hard laborers working into their 70s.

And maybe it is drugs. There is a television commercial out right now about a guy working construction who is taking opioids and needs another drug to lessen the side effects. (I am not joking, this is real.)

The fact that they are advertising with this audience in mind lends a lot of credence to your experience with construction.

 

[broadway]

Sorta...... But I think the real reason seniors can't find work is that they fail to show employers how hiring them will result in more additional profitability to the employer vs the next best candidate. Records of historical performance and credentials might be relevant but I think it's mainly the perception of what you're going to do for them NOW.

And what is "perception" except preconceived prejudices?

You must be young or you would not be parroting this "reason" given by employers. You want to know what these employers end up doing? They hire the freshout from college because they have "potential".

 

[youbet]

And what is "perception" except preconceived prejudices?

It sounds like your "perception" of employers is full of preconceived prejudices, a sure way to keep yourself from getting hired.

You must be young or you would not be parroting this "reason" given by employers.

Yes, I am young. I'm 69 and can see 70 in the headlights. I don't parrot anything and you saying so is wrong.

You want to know what these employers end up doing? They hire the freshout from college because they have "potential".

I generally trust employers to be "greedy." They want to make profits, feed the family, send kids to college, etc. So they hire candidates they feel will be most profitable to them. In terms of hiring managers at MegaCorps, this translates to hiring someone who will make them look good. We seniors do have a tough time selling our "extra experience" as an advantage to company profitability or having the boss look good, no doubt. And, frankly, age alone is never an advantage in job hunting. But time passes and things are what they are. So inventory what you can do for somebody and go sell yourself as the person most likely to put $$$ in the employer's pocket or get the boss promo'd.

I've done practice interviews with dozens of senior job seekers. Many have struggled to find the type of employment they're seeking. But those that were truly qualified and presented themselves as energetic and on top of their game while not expecting unrealistic compensation/benefits found a job.

 

[razztazz]

Sorta...... But I think the real reason seniors can't find work is that they fail to show employers how hiring them will result in more additional profitability to the employer vs the next best candidate. Records of historical performance and credentials might be relevant but I think it's mainly the perception of what you're going to do for them NOW.

Why must the weight in the situation be with the employer? That's a rig. It doesn't need to be that way. It can be an infinite number of other ways but it's simply rigged that way. HE/SHE has to show THAT PERSON how ro why this and that. That's actually te employers job but it's a responsibility shift

Secondly and this is the fantasy... how on earth is anybody going for a job supposed to know how he/she will be better than some unknowable number of unknowable people and in exactly what ways? And what if you did but the employer is incompetent? Gets you nowhere

The reality must be jobs must be available for those who need/want jobs. Period. Anything else equals failure and need not be granted a continuance

Being forced to find work (earn a living) in a system that is by its nature is

A) geared towards eliminating jobs and seeking cheap labor for the bottom line

B) had legislation favoring employers without equal legislation favoring the interests of workers is not freedom. It is the opposite of freedom

(Not that I'm interested in a job!)

 

[Bigdawg]

The reality must be jobs must be available for those who need/want jobs. Period. Anything else equals failure and need not be granted a continuance

Being forced to find work (earn a living) in a system that is by its nature is

A) geared towards eliminating jobs and seeking cheap labor for the bottom line

B) had legislation favoring employers without equal legislation favoring the interests of workers is not freedom. It is the opposite of freedom

(Not that I'm interested in a job!)

Totally disagree. It IS NOT the job of an employer to EMPLOY people. It is their job to make money. No, not at all costs and as an employer you have responsibilities to the employees that you do hire. You obviously do not agree with or understand capitalism. NO ONE OWES YOU A JOB.

 

[Amethyst]

Quite right...it is "rigged" the other way, when an employer needs people with specific skills that are hard to find. Then the employees hold the cards. Treat them wrong, and they walk!

Why must the weight in the situation be with the employer? That's a rig. It doesn't need to be that way. It can be an infinite number of other ways but it's simply rigged that way. HE/SHE has to show THAT PERSON how ro why this and that. That's actually te employers job but it's a responsibility shift

 

[broadway]

It sounds like your "perception" of employers is full of preconceived prejudices, a sure way to keep yourself from getting hired. Yes, I am young. I'm 69 and can see 70 in the headlights. I don't parrot anything and you saying so is wrong.

I generally trust employers to be "greedy." They want to make profits, feed the family, send kids to college, etc. So they hire candidates they feel will be most profitable to them. In terms of hiring managers at MegaCorps, this translates to hiring someone who will make them look good. We seniors do have a tough time selling our "extra experience" as an advantage to company profitability or having the boss look good, no doubt. And, frankly, age alone is never an advantage in job hunting. But time passes and things are what they are. So inventory what you can do for somebody and go sell yourself as the person most likely to put $$$ in the employer's pocket or get the boss promo'd.

I've done practice interviews with dozens of senior job seekers. Many have struggled to find the type of employment they're seeking. But those that were truly qualified and presented themselves as energetic and on top of their game while not expecting unrealistic compensation/benefits found a job.

Just because you are 69 going on 70 and parroting phrases that blame the employee does not make you right. Have you been out there looking for a job? Or do you sit there passing judgement on those "seniors" across from the table from you because luckily you are not in their shoes?

perception = observation

Whether your perception is right or not is anybody's guess.

And megacorps are greedy and that greed translates into hiring freshouts. The numbers don't lie.
The valueable senior is a purple unicorn. Very hard to find them being hired unless its CEO.

 

[broadway]

Quite right...it is "rigged" the other way, when an employer needs people with specific skills that are hard to find. Then the employees hold the cards. Treat them wrong, and they walk!

They hire them from overseas by claiming that no USA citizens exist that have the skills. That's what the H1-B visas are for.

 

[FreeBear]

Wow this thread really gives me flashbacks! W*rked in specialty electronics for a few decades. At the beginning of my career, jobs started moving offshore. Also, corporate life was getting me down even only a few years into my career, although I actually enjoyed the w*rk itself. So I committed to getting out of the rat race by my 50's at the latest. Well, thankfully I FIRED half a decade ahead of plan.

If things didn't stink so much so soon at the beginning of my career, I probably would have grown complacent and be screwed in my 50's. Instead, I enjoyed riding off into the sunset on my schedule.

I knew it was time to go when a guy on the Pacific Rim could do 80% of my job for 20% of my pay. I was replaced by a new Millennial. Well, the Pacific Rim guy/gal can still replace 60% of Millennial man at only 30% of his pay. The clocks is ticking...

Bottom line: got to be an owner, not just a worker and consumer and quick!

 

[broadway]

I had an email from a former colleague.

The software design is being off-shored to India.
The hardware build is already off-shored to Thailand.
Eventually nobody in the USA.

 

[exnavynuke]

Wow this thread really gives me flashbacks! W*rked in specialty electronics for a few decades. At the beginning of my career, jobs started moving offshore. Also, corporate life was getting me down even only a few years into my career, although I actually enjoyed the w*rk itself. So I committed to getting out of the rat race by my 50's at the latest. Well, thankfully I FIRED half a decade ahead of plan.

If things didn't stink so much so soon at the beginning of my career, I probably would have grown complacent and be screwed in my 50's. Instead, I enjoyed riding off into the sunset on my schedule.

I knew it was time to go when a guy on the Pacific Rim could do 80% of my job for 20% of my pay. I was replaced by a new Millennial. Well, the Pacific Rim guy/gal can still replace 60% of Millennial man at only 30% of his pay. The clocks is ticking...

Bottom line: got to be an owner, not just a worker and consumer and quick!

I think 90% of the workplace fails to see the writing on the wall like you did. "The auto industry replaced 90% of their assembly line workers with robots? That won't happen to me in [insert 95% similarity job here] though, we're totally different"

"I've been working the register at this restaurant for 10 years, there's no way my job is going away" (as they place their McDonald's order through a machine).

My dad told me early on to ensure I never had less than 3 career paths in front of me because you never know which paths will disappear to something else in the future. Jobs have been disappearing since shortly after the idea of paying for work was invented. The blacksmiths weren't outsourced to India, but their jobs still went away. The miller and the spinner and the book copier didn't lose their jobs to foreigners. They lost them to time, as time will tend to progress towards advancement except when society forces itself backwards. Advancement means change, and change means adaptation is necessary.

 

[RobbieB]

I never worried about that as I worked in automation.

In the future do you see more or less automation?

 

[haha]

For we geezers, or soon-to-be-geezers, the mantra has been to work for the gov't or MegaCorp, earn a pension, earn SS, fund a 401k, etc., and then fully retire living off passive income.

Drop Megacorp and go straight to government. So far the Welfare State has done nothing but increase employment and salaries in government work, and this seems likely to remain true.

Ha

 

[razztazz]

Drop Megacorp and go straight to government. So far the Welfare State has done nothing but increase employment and salaries in government work, and this seems likely to remain true.

Ha

Actually there is no reason to think this will continue and many to believe it will regress.

However it was not some mythical, mystical welfare state, like the Passover Angel or something that just appeared and did its thing. It was a response to the inadequacies of a privately driven economy. If everything was working just fine without it, it never would have come into existence. That is how the marketplace works. That is the invisible hand.

 

[RobbieB]

Trump just froze Fed hiring except for military and security.

 

[haha]

Actually there is no reason to think this will continue and many to believe it will regress.

However it was not some mythical, mystical welfare state, like the Passover Angel or something that just appeared and did its thing. It was a response to the inadequacies of a privately driven economy. If everything was working just fine without it, it never would have come into existence. That is how the marketplace works. That is the invisible hand.

Thank you so much for explaining this to me, all that invisible hand and everything is so cool!

However, I have been an adult for many years now, and so far what I say has held true. If you can or will work for Uncle, you are on the right side of the deal.

Ha

 

[Amethyst]

Such jobs are harder to get, and benefits are less munificent than they used to be.

From my perspective, the real money in "government work" is going to contractors. That is where many skilled people walk to, these days. And a good many of these jobs can only be filled by U.S. citizens, so in those cases, the H1-b is right out.

[Disclaimer: I have 37 years of Federal Government experience, including as a hiring manager.]

If you can or will work for Uncle, you are on the right side of the deal.

Ha

 

[exnavynuke]

I never worried about that as I worked in automation.

In the future do you see more or less automation?

I see more personally, but conditions could change and standardization could also reduce the anticipated increase in employment in the field I'd imagine.

Trump just froze Fed hiring except for military and security.

Not the first to do so, just the first since the effects of Carter and Reagan doing so were determined to have had no real benefit but to have actually caused problems.

 

[Milton]

[C]orporate life was getting me down even only a few years into my career, although I actually enjoyed the w*rk itself. So I committed to getting out of the rat race by my 50's at the latest. Well, thankfully I FIRED half a decade ahead of plan.

If things didn't stink so much so soon at the beginning of my career, I probably would have grown complacent and be screwed in my 50's. Instead, I enjoyed riding off into the sunset on my schedule.

Interesting perspective. Well done!

 

[Bigdawg]

It was a response to the inadequacies of a privately driven economy. If everything was working just fine without it, it never would have come into existence. That is how the marketplace works. That is the invisible hand.

You believe that the increase in government hiring/employment is due to inadequacies of a privately driven economy? Now that I am done rolling on the floor laughing-the government employment situation has very little if anything to do with "the marketplace". The government doesn't produce anything.

 

[razztazz]

You believe that the increase in government hiring/employment is due to inadequacies of a privately driven economy? Now that I am done rolling on the floor laughing-the government employment situation has very little if anything to do with "the marketplace". The government doesn't produce anything.

Wrong again. The Gov is part of the marketplace. Invisible hand. "All that is" The butterfly effect. The Invisible Hand. Yes. It's in there. Think differently and be wrong, and prove yourself unknowlegeable and unworthy of a place in the discussion., as we have all come to expect.

If the marketplace were up to the task of doing what that thing we call an economy exists to do we wouldn't even be discussing gov but since it is a genetic failure as is every other human endeavor at some point other means come up to fill the gaps.


Lesson for today: Gov is not supposed to "produce" anything it is not in the manufacturing trades. Altho it provides services that the "marketplace" can't or won't due to no way to get money from people. And the existence of these services by government are by every definition and concept part of the marketplace. SO that assinine BS about Gov no producing things is pretty...well... it puts you in the majority, Like Jay Leno's Jay Walking segments or America's Funniest home Vdeos

Your laugh-filled example of willful economic ignorance especially about market operations (because I do not believe you to be actually ignorant. You are as smart as I am so you must be thinking this way on purpose) is pretty knee jerk and tips your hand in a large and unretractable way.

Homework: go out and learn about economics.

Have a nice day...or another drag