Another Marriage Bites The Dust Due To Financial Incompatibility plus

[tmm99]

Glacial comes to mind except where you reconcile.

I once dated a girl that had been abused by her prior boyfriend. I found this out after we had been dating awhile. Her stories were awful. It involved verbal and physical abuse for several months.

We dated about 6 months with it beginning to become "serious" IMHO and then one day she dumped me to go back with her old boyfriend. Her story was that I was "nice and fun" but he was just more exciting. She called me again about a year later and I never returned her call. I wasn't going to get on that merry-go-round.

Sorry to side step, sheehs1, but 2B - Wow. Isn't that just a kicker! Good thing she dumped you IMHO.

 

[sheehs1]

Sorry that you're having to go through this but you'll be better off in two years. Been there, done that too, but mine lasted only five years.

I expected to be somewhat poor starting out but 5 years later it was getting old. Then when she wanted to take out a loan to go on a trip I saw no future down that road.

Two years later after I live like a monk that long and buy my own house she calls and wants to come over. Uh, okay, dunno what for. I still remember because I was a bit embarrassed since I'd been there two months and there were still unpacked boxes on the floor, taking my sweet time since I was the only one living there. And of course I was working full time shift work.

Anyway, she wants my approval to marry her boyfriend that she's been living with for the last year! I just said "We're divorced, do whatever you want." A neighbor who is a psychologist said she was probably ambivalent. I asked does that mean she was really asking do I want her back? "Yup".

The thought of taking her back had simply never occurred to me.

I'd met DW by then but nothing serious until later. Later this month it'll be 26 years of wedded bliss.

Congratulations to you and your wife Walt34. And how lovely that you are smitten. Love that!

And yes, the ex was "checking" to see if you would take her back.

 

[aja8888]

After a 17 year marriage, two beautiful children and then a wife who walks out on the family to "cash out", a messy and lengthy and very costly California divorce followed.

A year later I am in Texas living in an apartment with two teenage daughters and an old car and she (ex) calls me and asks me point blank if she could "come back". I almost fell off my chair. I politely said no....

Clock forward 20 years...a great new wife and a good life.

 

[sheehs1]

aja8888 thank you for your comments. Gives me faith! Or is it hope? Wait...it is both!

 

[aja8888]

aja8888 thank you for your comments. Gives me faith! Or is it hope? Wait...it is both!

Keep the faith and work your plan. It will turn out OK.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Good work on making your decision sheesh1. I hope that that means the hardest part is over and things will be on the upswing for you from here on out.

I read the link on the co-dependent article and people "who are giving, sacrificing, and consumed with the needs and desires of others" probably describes most of the moms I know, so maybe we are all co-dependent enablers in our own way.

 

[sheehs1]

Good work on making your decision sheesh1. I hope that that means the hardest part is over and things will be on the upswing for you from here on out.

I read the link on the co-dependent article and people "who are giving, sacrificing, and consumed with the needs and desires of others" probably describes most of the moms I know, so maybe we are all co-dependent enablers in our own way.

Thank you daylatedollarshort. You are exactly right. Most moms could fall under this category as could most "caregivers" (when our parents are ill). The term "codependent" is a tricky one.

I am anything but passive and submissive, am not a follower and did not give up my own personal power. Hence the conflict. But I DID do what needed to be done both in raising the children, taking care of the home and yard, establishing "family traditions", etc.

Unlike the article referenced I also do not have any problem being alone. I am not lonely, alone. I was used to being and navigating alone inside this marriage. Truth be told, I probably like it too much, as it was my source of peace thru the years.

I let him know my needs were not being met, letting him know what those needs were. He didn't care. And while I am sure my self esteem took a hit at first, I got over it and proceeded to do what I either was suppose to do or had to do in raising the kids, taking care of home, yard, establishing family traditions, etc. I knew my values, instinctively knew this day would come but at the time was too busy to make it happen and too tired to handle the fall out of it at an earlier time..

It remains telling that we have/had not one physical thing that was/is shared, not a house, not a bank account, not a goal. We had not one couple as friends to do things with, meaning separate friends. Bit by bit anything that we did share early on, such as going to church where we sat beside each other holding hands as husband and wife went by the way side (probably 15 years ago!). Golf on Sunday mornings for him won.

My point is it is possible to co-exist and not be co-dependent. Although the affects of living with one who does not know how to truly give of himself are with me. The acknowledgement of my own anger and resulting situational depression from all the betrayals, the playing over and over in my head of the many times my daughter experienced the same, the confusion of all the crisis, the anger of feeling like I had most of the true burden and responsibility - while I have been processing this all along the way - am sure a bit more processing is needed.
Thanks to all for your comments and support. In my opinion, it all goes back to his addictions and being a gambler which is a deep integral piece of his character and personality with all the residual affects to those around him.
I am done.

 

[2B]

After a 17 year marriage, two beautiful children and then a wife who walks out on the family to "cash out", a messy and lengthy and very costly California divorce followed.

That's interesting. I worked with a woman whose sister was talked into getting a divorce by her friends so she could enjoy all that money that her husband wouldn't let her spend.

She got her divorce and her pile of cash. She spent a year shopping and partying with her best buds. The problem arose when the money started to run out and her low paying job no longer would support the lifestyle she had with her old "skin flint" ex. She also tried to go back and he laughed at her. What in the world was she thinking? Fortunately, there were no kids.

 

[2B]

Sorry to side step, sheehs1, but 2B - Wow. Isn't that just a kicker! Good thing she dumped you IMHO.

That started me developing my theory that a significant number of women seek out men that treat them like crap. They want the emotional rush that comes with what I can only imagine as totally unacceptable. I would under no circumstances tolerate it from anyone else or subject anyone to it. I doubt my wife or any ex-girl friends would classify me as "exciting" but I don't think I'm totally boring. I certainly avoided being on any emotional roller coasters.

 

[Chuckanut]

living in an apartment with two teenage daughters and an old car

Personally, I am fascinated at the number of women who leave a marriage, and leave the kids with their ex-husband. I can think of several without even trying. It's supposed to be the other way around, but women leaving the husband and the kids seems more common than we are led to believe.

 

[haha]

Personally, I am fascinated at the number of women who leave a marriage, and leave the kids with their ex-husband. I can think of several without even trying. It's supposed to be the other way around, but women leaving the husband and the kids seems more common than we are led to believe.

My wife took off and left our children with me. I was very glad of that part anyway. She had been a good wife and mother to small children, but she was incompetent to raise teenage boys alone. My sister is the same way. Did a good job on her two daughters, but demolished her two sons.

Ha

 

[2B]

Personally, I am fascinated at the number of women who leave a marriage, and leave the kids with their ex-husband. I can think of several without even trying. It's supposed to be the other way around, but women leaving the husband and the kids seems more common than we are led to believe.

I saw a woman leave her kids with her ex. She decided she was gay and ran off with her lover. The lover left her after the money ran out. Her ex actually took her back but he was a bit strange.

I also knew of a marriage being held together because they each wanted the other one to take the kids. I don't know how long that kept them together. She wanted an open marriage and he didn't.

A man's accessibility to the kids seem to be reguarly used as an economic bargaining chip which provides a reason for the "traditional" approach.

 

[Nemo2]

Sorry to side step, sheehs1, but 2B - Wow. Isn't that just a kicker! Good thing she dumped you IMHO.

A dodged bullet for sure.

 

[sheehs1]

Small wrinkle. In an effort to share a deal together back in 2013 after being thought about for years (and I would not do it), I agreed to pay off my husbands loan on his office building and the balance on his credit card. so instead of paying the bank, I became the bank and the interest came into the home.

Total loan was $125,000, terms to be paid off in 5 years. Rather than take a deed on the property because I really did not want to deal with that property, i requested that he up his life insurance for that amount (in the event something happened to him. Besides he wanted his boys to inherit that property. (Good luck, in a small town, and has decades of CPA files that would need to be cleaned out among other things).

So we signed a promissory note with the terms. Included a clause where I could call the note at any time for any reason. The balance is currently $100,000. I called the loan last week. Also included were the terms of the life insurance that would run until the loan was paid off.

He is angry and irrational. Threatening to default which legally he could but I warned him about the damage to his credit when I went to get a judgement. I said, " I could live with the judgement and wait for my money. But I didn't think he could live with this on his credit report.
BTW: He has already secured a loan in his name and has the money. Just being jerky, I guess.

He now is making demands for a new property settlement agreement so that I can not take him for support. I reminded him we both waived alimony in the agreement.

Am trying to keep my head but he does not want to make me mad. I'll give him a couple of more weeks or so to get past this anger stage.

But one of my concerns was if he would challenge the agreement he signed in 2007, causing us both to spend money with expensive lawyers. He doesn't want to make me mad. The cruelty, the wasting of assets on his side of the fence, the drugs would not bode well in court. Or perhaps it wouldn't matter these days. I do not want to have to prove those grounds and simply want a quiet irreconcilable differences divorce.

Angry people do irrational things. And I am reminded when dealing with a narcissist. "Do Not Poke The Snake".

 

[Walt34]

Wow, sorry you have to deal with all this. To give credit to my ex, she was very reasonable to deal with once the divorce decision was made. There was none of the vindictive revenge-seeking behavior I hear about so often.

She even refinanced the car loan (she was keeping the new car, I was fine with that) in her name to get my name off the loan since I wanted to buy a house within two years and may not have been able to do that with the outstanding loan in my name too.

 

[sheehs1]

Wow, sorry you have to deal with all this. To give credit to my ex, she was very reasonable to deal with once the divorce decision was made. There was none of the vindictive revenge-seeking behavior I hear about so often.

She even refinanced the car loan (she was keeping the new car, I was fine with that) in her name to get my name off the loan since I wanted to buy a house within two years and may not have been able to do that with the outstanding loan in my name too.

Glad she was reasonable Walt34.
This is his typical response. In a month it should be a little different. Or perhaps not when he realizes this is truly the final straw.
It just tells me even more the only reason he was hanging on was because of the money I had saved over the last 22 years. He could have saved his own. He didn't. But he has his own business so he will be just fine. May have to work until he is 70+ but that is his fault.

 

[BTravlin]

Angry people do irrational things. And I am reminded when dealing with a narcissist. "Do Not Poke The Snake".

I had to fire my first attorney because he would not quit poking the snake. I think he did it on purpose knowing it would anger the ex which caused the proceedings to drag on and thereby pad his hours.

Umm, no, not playing that game.

 

[2B]

But one of my concerns was if he would challenge the agreement he signed in 2007, causing us both to spend money with expensive lawyers. He doesn't want to make me mad. The cruelty, the wasting of assets on his side of the fence, the drugs would not bode well in court. Or perhaps it wouldn't matter these days. I do not want to have to prove those grounds and simply want a quiet irreconcilable differences divorce.

Angry people do irrational things. And I am reminded when dealing with a narcissist. "Do Not Poke The Snake".

I don't recall if you already posted the answer to my question but I'll ask it. Have you officially filed for your divorce?

You have rocked his life and probably made him see how vulnerable his personal and financial situation really is. You had been providing food and shelter and were there to backstop the financial end of his building. No matter what he did you had always been there to make sure his life didn't fall apart. I'm sure he's convinced that you "owe" him.

He is most likely going to come at you with everything he can muster. You should expect the 2007 agreement to be challenged simply because he doesn't really have that much to lose. If he gets it thrown out, he gets to help himself to a bunch of your assets. If he doesn't succeed, he's only slightly poorer by the cost of the lawyer.

I suggest you file the divorce if not already filed. I also suggest you lawyer up for what I expect will be coming. Your divorce lawyer needs to be someone that is experienced in dealing with prenups and litigation around them. You have too many assets at risk not to spend some money to protect them. I also suggest you have no direct contact with your ex. Deal with him entirely through your attorney. Don't let him hit any of your buttons. Make this a business transaction from this time forward.

 

[sheehs1]

I had to fire my first attorney because he would not quit poking the snake. I think he did it on purpose knowing it would anger the ex which caused the proceedings to drag on and thereby pad his hours.

Umm, no, not playing that game.

Tend to agree with you here BTravlin. Runs up the legal fees.

 

[FIRE'd@51]

Small wrinkle. In an effort to share a deal together back in 2013 after being thought about for years (and I would not do it), I agreed to pay off my husbands loan on his office building and the balance on his credit card. so instead of paying the bank, I became the bank and the interest came into the home.

Total loan was $125,000, terms to be paid off in 5 years. Rather than take a deed on the property because I really did not want to deal with that property, i requested that he up his life insurance for that amount (in the event something happened to him. Besides he wanted his boys to inherit that property. (Good luck, in a small town, and has decades of CPA files that would need to be cleaned out among other things).

So we signed a promissory note with the terms. Included a clause where I could call the note at any time for any reason. The balance is currently $100,000. I called the loan last week. Also included were the terms of the life insurance that would run until the loan was paid off.

He is angry and irrational. Threatening to default which legally he could but I warned him about the damage to his credit when I went to get a judgement. I said, " I could live with the judgement and wait for my money. But I didn't think he could live with this on his credit report.
BTW: He has already secured a loan in his name and has the money. Just being jerky, I guess.

So long as you feel comfortable that he can/will continue making the loan payments, why call the loan now? Could that potentially be making the divorce proceedings more contentious? Can you get him to agree to not fight anything else if you don't call the loan? Unless you need the cash, I would think the interest on the loan is probably higher than you could earn elsewhere, and it will be paid off in 2018. If not calling it now can reduce the hassle to you, it may be worth it.

 

[Calico]

To OP:


Hire the most experienced and toughest lawyer you can find. You have a lot of assets to protect.

I'd be willing to bet my life he will challenge the 2007 agreement, and I think you can expect things to get very ugly very soon. It won't matter how rational you are, or how many facts are in your favor.

Just let the lawyers deal with all of it. I don't understand why you would even want to have any direct contact or conversations with him. Given the behavioral history they won't be productive, and IMHO any contact just continues the unhealthy relationship model you have both been participating in for 22 years. You say you are ready to move on. The first step to that is cutting contact with him completely. You don't have any minor children you are co-parenting, so there is no real reason for you to have contact with him.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but it's all about the legalities from this point forward, and the lawyers are equipped to deal with that - you are not. Protect the assets you have built up over the years, cut the cord, and move on to better days. Any other path just prolongs the toxic effects of the relationship.

Good luck to you and your daughter.

 

[sheehs1]

I don't recall if you already posted the answer to my question but I'll ask it. Have you officially filed for your divorce?

You have rocked his life and probably made him see how vulnerable his personal and financial situation really is. You had been providing food and shelter and were there to backstop the financial end of his building. No matter what he did you had always been there to make sure his life didn't fall apart. I'm sure he's convinced that you "owe" him.

He is most likely going to come at you with everything he can muster. You should expect the 2007 agreement to be challenged simply because he doesn't really have that much to lose. If he gets it thrown out, he gets to help himself to a bunch of your assets. If he doesn't succeed, he's only slightly poorer by the cost of the lawyer.

I suggest you file the divorce if not already filed. I also suggest you lawyer up for what I expect will be coming. Your divorce lawyer needs to be someone that is experienced in dealing with prenups and litigation around them. You have too many assets at risk not to spend some money to protect them. I also suggest you have no direct contact with your ex. Deal with him entirely through your attorney. Don't let him hit any of your buttons. Make this a business transaction from this time forward.

Sorry 2B, I must have missed the question. In our state, the physical separation has to occur before the filing. Since no minor children are involved it usually takes 6 months. I sat down with my lawyer (from the prior separations) last week. He said if the two of us could agree that we have lived separate and apart, even while living under the same roof, it can be backdated to an agreed upon date. I relayed this to my "ex" and he said he would be fine with getting the divorce "tomorrow". (anger speaking there). The living separate and apart under the same roof is not a problem and is very true. Separate bedrooms, not marital relations for years. Presumably due to the pills he takes. Meaning I am no slouch, for my age, that is. Don't wear my wedding rings to the local Y because they get in my way with weights and have had a couple of guys asked me out in the last year or two, thinking I was single. I guess I'm just trying to say, the lack of intimacy was more than disappointing and wasn't from my end, except there was no trust or respect and that definitely affects that. I now just have to get him to agree to a date.

My ex's current mantra is he wants an addendum to the 2007 Post Marital Agreement restating that I will come after him for nothing. He sat down with a lawyer and I'm both knowing and thinking he has a vulnerability in that agreement. What is it? The one I know about is he breached one of the articles. The one that stated he agreed to not waste assets, to not do risky stock market gambling (IPO's, Options, etc). Breached big time. However, my lawyer said since in this agreement, my assets are mine and his are his, they are not marital property. Perhaps I need to get a second read on that In affect, he wasted his own assets and not so called "marital assets". He said I could try for some compensation but if I wanted the agreement to stand, might be best to leave it alone. I agree with him.

He is holding up his repayment of the loan I gave him in return for my signature on a new addendum. Right now not signing anything. Don't need the money. So he is worried about something. I am no longer formally working while he has a CPA practice. I have what is historically over $100K in K1 income so I don't think a judge would grant me a whole lot. Probably zero. Besides, I don't need his money. I have assets and he doesn't but he has the wherewithal to be o.k. if he would stop gambling.
Personally I think a judge would have a hard time throwing that agreement out. We have lived under the auspices of it thru 2 or 3 separations since. There was a clause addressing future separations and this agreement stands thru out future separations and reconciliations.
So, have a lawyer. Have visited with him yet again. And plan to file as soon as I get my money back from this loan. Because serving him with divorce papers now would inflame him further.

 

[Chuckanut]

So long as you feel comfortable that he can/will continue making the loan payments, why call the loan now? Could that potentially be making the divorce proceedings more contentious? Can you get him to agree to not fight anything else if you don't call the loan? Unless you need the cash, I would think the interest on the loan is probably higher than you could earn elsewhere, and it will be paid off in 2018. If not calling it now can reduce the hassle to you, it may be worth it.

Possibly, but after divorce one tends to want a clean break with the other person. Get them out of one's life and move on. The fewer opportunities for the ex partner to pull one's strings and instigate conflict, the better. The biggest obstacle to that is usually children, especially minor ones.

A big loan that goes on for three more years, means three more years of potential contact with the ex, most likely in adversarial positions. And if he does not pay on time, this mess could go on longer.

Getting the loan refinanced would eliminate the unwelcome contact.

Just My 2¢. YMMV.

 

[sheehs1]

So long as you feel comfortable that he can/will continue making the loan payments, why call the loan now? Could that potentially be making the divorce proceedings more contentious? Can you get him to agree to not fight anything else if you don't call the loan? Unless you need the cash, I would think the interest on the loan is probably higher than you could earn elsewhere, and it will be paid off in 2018. If not calling it now can reduce the hassle to you, it may be worth it.

FIRE'd@51. I gave him that option when I called it. You are thinking like I did. All he had to do was let me know which option. Knowing him, I knew he was not going to want to pay me the monthly interest and the $25K principle payment each April until the balance was zero.

So getting the loan was his option. Now I'm getting blamed for his closing costs. But since this was originally a commercial line of credit I don't understand why he had closing cost. If he went for a traditional mortgage, that too was his decision.

 

[sheehs1]

Possibly, but after divorce one tends to want a clean break with the other person. Get them out of one's life and move on. The fewer opportunities for the ex partner to pull one's strings and instigate conflict, the better. The biggest obstacle to that is usually children, especially minor ones.

A big loan that goes on for three more years, means three more years of potential contact with the ex, most likely in adversarial positions. And if he does not pay on time, this mess could go on longer.

Getting the loan refinanced would eliminate the unwelcome contact.

Just My 2¢. YMMV.

And I agree with this Chuckanut. To get a monthly interest payment from him each month would keep the contact going...for 4 (not 3) more years. I can put it in Dominion stock and get almost 4% or find other investments that get me something without the contact. Agree 100%.