Bye Bye Chevy Volt

[braumeister]

 

[REWahoo]

^ ICE, electric, fuel cell, or nuclear powered?

 

[Music Lover]

View attachment 30078

The first thing I thought of with flying cars was that too many people already can't even handle level driving safely...think of the mess if up and down was added.

 

[travelover]

^ ICE, electric, fuel cell, or nuclear powered?

Foot powered

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

The demise of ICE cars has been predicted for decades and the best electrics can do even with massive subsidies is a tiny percentage. End the subsidies and their market share will plummet.

It doesn't matter what California decrees or what Volkswagen announces...the vast majority of people will continue to buy ICE until they determine that it's advantageous to buy an alternative.

I phrase it "the vast majority will continue to buy ICE until the federal government bans it. See China, India, France, UK, Germany and Norway."

Otherwise I agree.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

No, I don't think I can agree. While it may appear obvious, the future has a sneaky way of turning out differently than we foresee. Who knows what new technologies will be available in a few years?

I wasn't saying that the future is for sure EV's. I was saying the gradual reduction and elimination of ICE's appears obvious. Absolutely, new technology may emerge to lead the way ahead of EV's. I hope it does.

But for now, car companies and governments are preparing the transition to EV's.

 

[CardsFan]

This reminds me of the prognostications of the coming "paperless society" that were popular in the late 1970's. Pundits were forecasting the demise of printed material before the end of the century, saving the lives of millions of trees. Forty years have passed and while we may have reached the "less paper" society, we are nowhere near paperless.

I suspect a similar future for ICE powered cars - they will decline but it will take far longer than a decade or two for them to disappear entirely.

Bold by me.

I always laugh every time I hear this (and it is still said today). Trees, today, are a crop. Drive through any paper producing area and the odds are the highway is lined with trees, designed to grow quickly, for use in making paper. If some one wants argue the smell, pollution, etc., those are legitimate. But save atree?

 

[Music Lover]

I wasn't saying that the future is for sure EV's. I was saying the gradual reduction and elimination of ICE's appears obvious. Absolutely, new technology may emerge to lead the way ahead of EV's. I hope it does.

But for now, car companies and governments are preparing the transition to EV's.

It will happen eventually but I think some are overly optimistic on the timeline. Range, charging time, and massive infrastructure changes are needed before it becomes anywhere near feasible. I'm not against it but prefer others to be the early adopters.

 

[Red Badger]

o

I have a Miata but there's no way I can relate to this statement!

DW felt unsafe in Miata. I was solo. Fun until it wasn't.

 

[Ready]

When I drive to a destination (Florida to Canada for example) I like to get a good 1st day of driving in. That is way over the ~300 mile limits of today's Electrics. I do like the Tesla, but it still cannot cut it. I miss my BMW 328d that averaged 47mpg to Canada. I went for a gas one this time (330i) and it really is nowhere near as good. I think I can get one more diesel lease in when this one runs out, before they get really hard to get and maintain.

My experience has been that Tesla has done a good job at strategically placing superchargers at locations that are convenient for long distance travel and allow you to get something to eat or do some shopping while waiting an hour or so for a full recharge. It doesn't seem that unreasonable to take an hour break from driving every 300 miles or so. That's four hours of continuous driving. I can't go longer than that without resting and taking a bathroom break anyway. And for the minor inconvenience of having to wait the hour or so on the road for long distance trips, you get to completely avoid the weekly trips to the gas station permanently. It seems like a good trade off to me.

 

[aja8888]

I'm all for technology and wouldn't mind having a cheap EV for local use someday. I would prefer to drive it myself, though (for safety reasons).

Currently, there are 275,000,000 registered vehicles in the U.S. and we are continuing to make them at a pace of 16,000,000+ per year. About 98% of these run on gasoline or diesel. They keep coming folks, and no one is shutting off the spout!

There are also MILLIONS of families who can just barely afford a cheap used car in the U.S. Many of these folks live in apartments or in areas where virtually no power heavy infrastructure exists today. Heck, in Houston,there are over 2,500 apartment complexes and more are being built today.

So based on the headwinds above, I don't see all cars being EV's anytime soon, or even 20 years out.

 

[ERD50]

My experience has been that Tesla has done a good job at strategically placing superchargers at locations that are convenient for long distance travel and allow you to get something to eat or do some shopping while waiting an hour or so for a full recharge. It doesn't seem that unreasonable to take an hour break from driving every 300 miles or so. That's four hours of continuous driving. I can't go longer than that without resting and taking a bathroom break anyway. And for the minor inconvenience of having to wait the hour or so on the road for long distance trips, you get to completely avoid the weekly trips to the gas station permanently. It seems like a good trade off to me.

Yes, as EV price/capability improve, and charge stations become more common, EVs will be a good choice for more and more people.

But like aja8888 just posted, I cringe at the pronouncements from some that everyone (or even almost everyone) will be driving EVs in a decade or two.

ICE/hybrid is going to be what many are driving for the next two decades.

-ERD50

 

[Texas Proud]

I'm all for technology and wouldn't mind having a cheap EV for local use someday. I would prefer to drive it myself, though (for safety reasons).

Currently, there are 275,000,000 registered vehicles in the U.S. and we are continuing to make them at a pace of 16,000,000+ per year. About 98% of these run on gasoline or diesel. They keep coming folks, and no one is shutting off the spout!

There are also MILLIONS of families who can just barely afford a cheap used car in the U.S. Many of these folks live in apartments or in areas where virtually no power heavy infrastructure exists today. Heck, in Houston,there are over 2,500 apartment complexes and more are being built today.

So based on the headwinds above, I don't see all cars being EV's anytime soon, or even 20 years out.

On your last stmt I would agree... they said on the TV that the avg age of a car now is 12 years!!! Yes, 12 AVG...


The real question is what pct of new cars will be EV in 20 years... I doubt it will be close to 50%... way under that to be clear...

 

[JoeWras]

My experience has been that Tesla has done a good job at strategically placing superchargers at locations that are convenient for long distance travel and allow you to get something to eat or do some shopping while waiting an hour or so for a full recharge. It doesn't seem that unreasonable to take an hour break from driving every 300 miles or so. That's four hours of continuous driving. I can't go longer than that without resting and taking a bathroom break anyway. And for the minor inconvenience of having to wait the hour or so on the road for long distance trips, you get to completely avoid the weekly trips to the gas station permanently. It seems like a good trade off to me.

Nope.

DW and I do a lot of long distance travel. We get quite refreshed with our 30 minute lunch sitting at the rustic rest stops. Yes, we like pinic rest stops.

Beyond that, it is fill and run. When you are traveling cross country as we have quite a few times, 1 hr every 300 adds up.

We do stop at rest stops frequently to stretch and change drivers. Those 5 minutes do incredible good.

For many, the trade off may be fine. For us, it is not.

EVs will get better with the charging solution. Until then, as an apparent minority who just doesn't drive around town, I demand my unimpeded cross country driving rights!

 

[ncbill]

I'm all for technology and wouldn't mind having a cheap EV for local use someday. I would prefer to drive it myself, though (for safety reasons).

Currently, there are 275,000,000 registered vehicles in the U.S. and we are continuing to make them at a pace of 16,000,000+ per year. About 98% of these run on gasoline or diesel. They keep coming folks, and no one is shutting off the spout!

There are also MILLIONS of families who can just barely afford a cheap used car in the U.S. Many of these folks live in apartments or in areas where virtually no power heavy infrastructure exists today. Heck, in Houston,there are over 2,500 apartment complexes and more are being built today.

So based on the headwinds above, I don't see all cars being EV's anytime soon, or even 20 years out.

Yeah, no way will the ICE be dead in 20 years.

Relatively small numbers of pure EVs will sell well, primarily to affluent consumers in HCOL areas where they get significant perquisites from buying a pure EV (HOA sticker, city/state tax credits in addition to federal, no "city core" tax)

The rest of us will be driving vehicles with some type of hybridized powertrain...which gets most of the benefits of a pure EV, but at a fraction of the cost.

E.g. Toyota's 2019 RAV4...as little as $800 add'l gets you the hybrid powertrain, combined mpg goes from 29 to 39 (over 40 mpg in city driving)

 

[Hamlet]

tl;dr

A recent CNN item pointed out that plugin EVs like the Volt haven't proved popular.

People are either buying pure EVs or non-plugin hybrids.

Yeah, I don't understand why the plugin hybrids aren't more popular. I'd much rather have a Volt than a Tesla or Prius ( although I am too cheap to buy any of them )

The Volt has about a 50-mile all electric range. That would be plenty for most people's daily commute. So most of the time you could avoid buying gas, but if you needed the extended range it is there.

 

[Independent]

All those gov'ts will back track once everyone realizes you need to build thousands of nuke power plants to generate enough electricity for the increase in electric cars.

+1

It's easy to say that some future gov't will ban ICE cars 23 years from now.
It's harder to be that gov't and really ban them when the time comes.

 

[BigMoneyJim]

Yeah, I don't understand why the plugin hybrids aren't more popular. I'd much rather have a Volt than a Tesla or Prius ( although I am too cheap to buy any of them )

I have a Leaf and a Prius. I looked into a plug-in Prius but realized I'd rather have one of each.

Having a full-capacity battery and a primary ICE is just too much expense and weight.

Having a small battery to supplement the ICE or having a small range-extender charging ICE can make sense, but PHEV requires a big one of each.

 

[akidagain2018]

Well if anything is coming back, I’d wish for one of the old land yachts like a Crown Vic. In a Cadillac, I’d want one of those late 90’s Fleetwoods. Something you could ride in comfort with plenty of room.

SUVs are fine, I have one, but doesn’t anyone appreciate a trunk? A place to put something like your golf clubs out of sight.

My dad, older generation guy, loved the Cady. We had this enormous boat of a Cady with bench seats front and back. I think I could nearly lay down fully, at 5'8" in high school, in the seat. It was huge - and by the time I was starting to drive - it was the second car that I 'got to' use to go back and forth to my job. This is about the time of the arrival of the first compact imports coming into favor in the US. What a boat. that car was! But I'd kinda like to have that old boat now! - It was a 1970s vintage Elderado or maybe a Fleetwood. It was big and green and the biggest 1 or 2 of the Cadies at the time. And I disappeared in the driver's seat at 16.

And, yeah, don't people need a trunk?

 

[Red Badger]

Nope.

DW and I do a lot of long distance travel. We get quite refreshed with our 30 minute lunch sitting at the rustic rest stops. Yes, we like pinic rest stops.

Beyond that, it is fill and run. When you are traveling cross country as we have quite a few times, 1 hr every 300 adds up.

We do stop at rest stops frequently to stretch and change drivers. Those 5 minutes do incredible good.

For many, the trade off may be fine. For us, it is not.

EVs will get better with the charging solution. Until then, as an apparent minority who just doesn't drive around town, I demand my unimpeded cross country driving rights!

+1.

Lots of trips, but no commute. We stop frequently for 5-10 minutes. An hour to recharge? I'll pass. Not ruling out a hybrid for next purchase. ICE still the practical choice for us.

 

[fgtayl01]

For me, a golf cart. I've never been interested in killing someone else with my vehicle. (grin)

 

[Jerry1]

Well if anything is coming back, I’d wish for one of the old land yachts like a Crown Vic. In a Cadillac, I’d want one of those late 90’s Fleetwoods. Something you could ride in comfort with plenty of room.

SUVs are fine, I have one, but doesn’t anyone appreciate a trunk? A place to put something like your golf clubs out of sight.

Some people do, and that's one reason I have a pickup truck with a fiberglass cap over the bed. That's one HUGE trunk! I can put three fully assembled R/C model airplanes in there.

A while back I watched a segment of "Jay Leno's Garage" on youtube about a ~1967 Lincoln Continental and his comment about the trunk was that it was "big enough to house a family of four".

Some of us do appreciate a trunk.

So, thanks to this thread and of course, my desire to drive a new car, I went out and traded my Impala for a crew cab Silverado. The visual that Walt provided of a truck size trunk was too much so I went for it. Now I’m looking at a BedRug liner and a tonneau cover. The BedRug resembles the fabric look of a trunk, but it’s more durable and water proof. With the cover, it should be nice.

 

[JoeWras]

So, thanks to this thread and of course, my desire to drive a new car, I went out and traded my Impala for a crew cab Silverado. The visual that Walt provided of a truck size trunk was too much so I went for it. Now I’m looking at a BedRug liner and a tonneau cover. The BedRug resembles the fabric look of a trunk, but it’s more durable and water proof. With the cover, it should be nice.

Does the Silverado have engine cut off at stops? If so, how obnoxious is it?

A friend just bought a new Ford pickup, and as a passenger I found the engine cut off to be irritating. I can't imagine driving it.

This is one area where hybrids help smooth things out and do a good job. I still can't believe they killed the Volt. I liked my coworker's Volt, if it were larger. Just too hard to get in an out of.

 

[Jerry1]

Does the Silverado have engine cut off at stops? If so, how obnoxious is it?

A friend just bought a new Ford pickup, and as a passenger I found the engine cut off to be irritating. I can't imagine driving it.

No. I bought a 2018. They were running great deals on them, which helped me in the justification department. The 2018’s don’t have the stop/start but the 2019’s do. I don’t like it one bit. Hopefully when I get my next car, it will work better, but I just can’t get over it feeling like I’m in a golf cart. I do think the ones with an electric motor that get the car rolling would probably be a lot better. We looked at a Traverse recently and they said that there’s no shut off. That would really suck. I know you can trick it by driving in manual or whatever, but I don’t want to play games in my car. I’d at least want a on/off ability, similar to traction control.

 

[mpeirce]

Does the Silverado have engine cut off at stops? If so, how obnoxious is it?

A friend just bought a new Ford pickup, and as a passenger I found the engine cut off to be irritating. I can't imagine driving it.

These start/stop systems vary a lot.

The first time I encountered one on a rental car I thought it was awful. Then I bought a Mercedes diesel that had it and it's actually very smooth. I never notice it.

I've had it on a couple of rentals and it still seems to vary a lot.