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Old 01-22-2011, 07:49 PM   #81
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Sounds like someone who has never owned a Remington 700 series with the old model trigger assembly. (The X-Mark Pro mechanism fixes the problem)

Then there are the obvious ones. Carrying a Colt-style revolver with a loaded chamber under the hammer. "oops... thud... BANG!" (Modern hammer block or transfer bar safeties improve the situation.)

Alas, it is quite possible to have a weapon discharge without squeezing the trigger. But this is what those pesky gun safety courses are for, right?
Nope I've never owned a Remington 700. It looks like it would be rather difficult to conceal one of those, which is the discussion we are having. I have never carried any long gun with a round in the chamber, unless I was hunting (animals or people). I also don't carry revolvers (I don't like only having 4-6 rounds), which is probably why I didn't think about the empty chamber thing, but since you mentioned it I do recall that from my last academy. Didn't the manufacturers fix the issue with revolvers going off if dropped several years ago?

I like autos. They have plenty of rounds to shoot into a person who is high on something, whether it's drugs or the thought of killing me.
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Old 01-22-2011, 07:56 PM   #82
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Didn't the manufacturers fix the issue with revolvers going off if dropped several years ago?
In double action revolvers, maybe 40 years ago.
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Old 01-22-2011, 08:28 PM   #83
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After I had a little problem at my house with a meth addict on a rampage a few years ago, a cop suggested that I invest in a baseball bat to keep just inside my front door.
The most suspicious character I've had at my door in the last year has been... a cop. (Those dark blue windbreakers cover up everything.) I can only imagine his reaction if I'd opened the door with my Louisville slugger at hand.

I'm pretty sure I would've changed my behavior, however, when I saw the firearm strapped to his right quadriceps.
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Old 01-22-2011, 08:47 PM   #84
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In double action revolvers, maybe 40 years ago.
Yup. Yay transfer bars.

The 'fix' is a pretty simple design change. Rather than let the hammer rest on the firing pin, where a drop could conceivably discharge the weapon, there's a little bar that has to be moved into position atop the end of the firing pin, by squeezing the trigger, before the hammer's force can be transferred.

A small percentage of the older (pre-2007) Remington 700 series old trigger mechanisms have this unpleasant habit of occasionally discharging when the safety is taken off. The newer mechanisms were redesigned and behave much better. Older weapons can be upgraded.
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Old 01-22-2011, 10:02 PM   #85
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You are correct, if someone wants to shoot you then you won't have the time to pull your gun. As I said, nothing good will happen when there is a gun involved.
My handgun has already saved my life once, so I'm the wrong guy to try to change my opinion. Feel free to move on to somebody else.
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Old 01-22-2011, 10:53 PM   #86
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My handgun has already saved my life once, so I'm the wrong guy to try to change my opinion. Feel free to move on to somebody else.
Not trying to change anybodys mind, just stated my opinion. I'm sure there are many stories of folks who have been killed with their own guns also.
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:13 PM   #87
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I'm sure there are many stories of folks who have been killed with their own guns also.
I don't think we'll be hearing their side of the story, though.
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:32 PM   #88
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My handgun has already saved my life once, so I'm the wrong guy to try to change my opinion. Feel free to move on to somebody else.
Friend of a friend accidentally shot and killed his brother with a handgun at 10. Friend of DH purposely shot and killed herself with a handgun at 17.

So I'm glad to finally hear of someone saving his own life with a handgun.
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:38 PM   #89
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My handgun has already saved my life once, so I'm the wrong guy to try to change my opinion. Feel free to move on to somebody else.
I have had a concealed weapons permit for about 45 years. About 25 years ago when I had a commercial auto repair shop I had a couple of attempted robberies. Having a concealed firearm saved me from being harmed and helped acquire free room and board for a couple of bad guys. Both had extensive criminal histories.

Another time when I was working late, I heard noises on the roof of my commercial shop. I was concerned someone intended to break through one of the skylights. I called 911 and was told they would send an officer. About 20 minutes later there was more activity on the roof. When I called 911 again the woman became quite rude and told me they were too busy to respond at that time. I told her I was armed and would take care of the incident myself since the police were too busy (this really got her agitated). Within 5 minutes the police responded and caught the person.

Now I seldom carry unless I am traveling.
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Old 01-23-2011, 12:20 AM   #90
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I don't think we'll be hearing their side of the story, though.
Survivor bias?
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Old 01-23-2011, 05:16 AM   #91
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I intend to avoid places where the odds are high that I would need one to protect myself.

There is always a chance that the odd event could occur... But I am not going to walk around "Strapped" all the time just in case!

I have thought about keeping a weapon in the home. But so far I have avoided doing it. If things began getting bad in our neighborhood... We would move.

However, if there were some situation or circumstances where it made sense to do it... I would do it.
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Old 01-23-2011, 06:19 AM   #92
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I have had a concealed weapons permit for about 45 years. About 25 years ago when I had a commercial auto repair shop I had a couple of attempted robberies. Having a concealed firearm saved me from being harmed and helped acquire free room and board for a couple of bad guys. Both had extensive criminal histories.
.
I was in my early 20s and was studying for a big exam as was my girlfriend in my apartment. My upstairs neighbor refused 3 requests to stop his thumping stereo, so I called to local police to come ask him to turn it down. Well it turns out I wasn't the first person to call the police on him since he had been cited before. The police gave him a larger and more expensive citation.

Thinking it was over I went back to studying and my girlfriend (now wife) went to bed. about 10 minutes later he came to my apartment with his posse. They started pelting my windows and trying to bash in the door screaming that they were coming in to get me.

I grabbed my Sig Sauer and Stood there at the door until it came off the hinges. (which took only 20 seconds from them arriving) I informed them that anybody stepping in the front door was going to get shot.

They all turned around and ran.

No shots fired, nobody hurt, never made the statistics, but that night my gun saved my life.
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Old 01-23-2011, 06:58 AM   #93
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Uh, Heinlein's character wasn't saying that an armed society was non-violent --- just polite. After all, Heinlein was depicting a future society in which dueling was approved and fairly common. I suppose you could say that shooting someone is rather rude, but it's an odd way of speaking.
OK, I understand your distinction, but in present times I consider a society like the US where people can carry guns around impolite and frightening, given the gun violence in this country.
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Old 01-23-2011, 07:08 AM   #94
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That's OK. There are constitutional challenges to the laws requiring training classes and, in the 'may issue' states, to the ability of a permit issuer to decline to issue to persons he judges not to be fit to carry.

I look forward to the day when we have lots of untrained, unstable folks wandering the streets, not knowing why it's bad to leave a round chambered, or what that funny 'safety' thing is for.

Think of it as evolution in action.
I think that the training requirement will past constitutional muster, as well as certain limitations on who can carry. However there are issues on what those limitations may be, both as to person and place.
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Old 01-23-2011, 07:38 AM   #95
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when I think of owning a gun I think of my father-in-law. He's owned a loaded 9mm in his nightstand for literally decades. ?
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Sadly, I think for a lot of guys this is a way of controlling their end of life scenario - i.e. leaving suicide as an option to a nursing home.
Sad that there are no good alternatives for voluntary end of life scenarios. But you don't need to keep it at your bed side until you are getting around to using it.
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Old 01-23-2011, 08:00 AM   #96
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While I am all for reasonable restrictions on who is allowed to buy and own a firearm, I think that wishing things were different in the US WRT the availability of guns is a pipe dream. Short of a complete outlawing of firearms ownership and a subsequent determined roundup of weapons by the authorities, the 200MM guns floating around mean that anyone who really wants one can get one especially with varying state standards on licensing and sales restrictions (or lack thereof).

And while I support sane gun laws, it is possible to go overboard. Exhibit A is New Jersey: To get a permit for any firearm, I have to start with a trip to my local police station with several money orders. I then have to be fingerprinted, registered, background checked and wait (possibly for months). If I wish to own a handgun, I have to apply for a separate permit and I need one of these for each handgun I wish to buy. Since the state considers even BB guns to be firearms, this is a pretty wide net. I will not even get into the issues of the potential trouble you can get in transporting an unloaded weapon to a shooting range or shooting someone who intrudes into your home and threatens your family. Oh, yes, stun guns are illegal and NJ's knife laws are so avguely written that I could conceivably be cited for walking around with a small Swiss Army knife in my pocket if the local police are having a bad day. Self defense options would appear to be limited to pepper spray, a baseball bat, or prayer, although use of any but the last would still likely result in a civil lawsuit at the very least. Since this is a state that requires a permit for the purchase of a model rocket engine, I suppose I should not be surprised.

Yet someone who does not care about following the law could pick up a firearm on any given day in many areas of the state.
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Old 01-23-2011, 08:09 AM   #97
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That, Brewer, is the problem.
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Old 01-23-2011, 08:11 AM   #98
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...although use of any but the last would still likely result in a civil lawsuit at the very least.
Any use of force that results in severe injury or death is most likely going to result in a civil lawsuit. This is one of the reasons people need to practice and practice some more, know what the laws state, and avoid the situation all together if possible. This is also one of the reasons I don't carry unless I am going to an area I know will likely lead to getting involved in something. The bad guy's family is going to say little Johnny Thug had a past, but he was turning his life around and didn't need to be shot/beat.
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Old 01-23-2011, 08:13 AM   #99
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That, Brewer, is the problem.

To which there is no apparent solution. Just like Congress.

Fortunately, I live in a quiet cul de sac with a cop, fireman, city council member and hunting enthusiast as neighbors and I suspect that casual/uncommitted would-be attackers would probably move on to the next house given the presence of our large, brindled dog who barks quite loudly (at pretty much everything).
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Old 01-23-2011, 08:22 AM   #100
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I understand Vincente's puzzlement about us. I am too my dear Spanish friend. Us Americanos are quite bizarre sometimes. But we do make great movies.
+1 Americans are (mostly) intelligent, ambitious, generous, well educated. This debate totally confounds me. I guess if "The Lord" wanted gun control "He" wouldn't have given you the NRA?
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