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Old 06-23-2016, 08:21 AM   #41
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It's actually been a problem for me. Pulling out into (or across) fast moving traffic, the car suddenly stops accelerating and slows very quickly. Pushing the accelerator down strongly will overcome this, but only after significant engine hesitation. Not fun in urban traffic.

At first I thought it was a defect in my car, especially after seeing other similar complaints. I noticed, however, that it happened most frequently when accelerating from standstill, and it didn't always happen. A little experimenting and I identified the brake pedal as the "driving force". A little more experimenting confirmed it.

One of these days I'll post over at one of the Honda forums, see what they say. First, though, I'll direct my declining cognitive abilities toward retraining my right foot.
Never heard of it, and I was wondering if it was a defect too. But evidently not, started around 2011 in some cars All U.S. Honda Vehicles To Get Brake Overrides By Next Year a feature that might be helpful 1% of the time and a PITA the other 99%? Never noticed but I wonder if my 2012 has it?
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Old 06-23-2016, 08:29 AM   #42
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I've never imagined left foot braking, and can't see what the value would be. Even when I finally freed up the left foot from driving clutch I never thought of it. I drove for decades in DC traffic, so it's not like I was in a one stop light town. Why do you do that? What does it buy you?
In my opinion, who cares? I haven't ever done that either, but in my view that decision should be MichaelB's to make.

If we were never to ask anyone why they did something or made an investment choice this site would go awful quiet.

Are you recommending that when someone states they do something we should not ask them why and what the benefits are?

As for left foot braking, it has long been discussed on driving forums. This article has a few of the points but this is the one involving safety
Quote:
eliminating that cumbersome process of going from one pedal to the other can save you 60 feet of stopping distance at roughly 55 mph
One thing that most people agree on is that left foot braking should not be used by someone that is not very comfortable behind the wheel. Left foot braking is also taught in evasive driving courses.
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Old 06-23-2016, 08:38 AM   #43
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So much material here, I don't know where to start.

I never liked the idea of two foot driving (probably because I never had an autotrans until I had gotten addicted to using the right foot for both brake and gas.) The very WORST issue surrounding two foot driving has already been mentioned. There is a natural tendency to depress the brake pedal sufficiently to illuminate the brake lights - even though no braking is taking place. I read a book called "TRAFFIC" which had a whole section on why (otherwise) normal, smooth-flowing freeway traffic becomes snarled. The worst offender - two foot drivers (distant second were those who go for the brake for every curve, sign, exit, entrance, dip, bump, etc.) It turns out that traffic on freeways can be affected for miles by ONE driver illuminating his brake lights - even if he slows down not at all. The MYTHBUSTERS confirmed this not so long ago. So there's that.

A little practical advice: If one has become used to applying the brake and gas to hold on a hill, it's time to learn about using the hand brake instead. That's how we learned to do it in drivers ed. I've never forgotten it. Of course, GM and others still use the foot emergency brake which is a bit more challenging, but it still works - also the way we learned it in drivers ed when all cars were GM or Ford in drivers ed.

On a less serious tone (though it was serious at the time) I will relay a story of the battle of the sexes (back before THEY won it.) DW and I were at a dinner party with several couples. The conversation took off on how irritating it was to ride with our wives. There were several "issues" discussed. MY particular pet peeve was my wife's tendency to accelerate until she was forced to stop. IOW On the gas until a crash would occur without vigorous braking. Personally, I've always tried to "play" the traffic, watch the lights ahead, etc. With DW, it's either go or stop. So I said "All women must have learned to drive in a Kiddy Kar. They don't think they are driving unless they are pushing a pedal." My statement (admittedly under a little "influence of wine") got a big round of laughter - from the men. The ladies, especially DW were not pleased. So, I did my best in the future not to criticize DW's driving, though I can't always resist showing her that I get 25mpg and she gets 22 on the same car with similar trips - guess it's just a guy thing. In all things related to the sexes, refer back to rule #1. "If Momma ain't happy, nobody's happy."

Comment on a fix for a nonexistent problem: The disabling of the gas pedal upon pushing the brake probably has already been discussed as a response to folks accelerating through their garages or running into crowds of people because of a "demon car" which could not be stopped. IIRC most if not all incidents have been shown to be those who think they are pushing on the brake but are actually pushing on the gas. In any case, the most powerful car ever built can be stopped - even at full throttle - with normally functioning brakes. Naturally (in all of this) YMMV
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Old 06-23-2016, 08:39 AM   #44
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Looks like I need to learn to drive again. Just discovered something about my new Honda - when you touch the brake pedal the fuel to the engine is cut off, even if you are accelerating. Must be a safety thing. A PITA for me, I spent my adult life in a big city where driving is like trench warfare - each inch of progress is a major battle and two foot driving is a life preserving skill. Well, we'll soon see if this old dog can be taught a new trick.

Good luck learning the new trick. I get frustrated with all the "nanny" features that cannot be turned off.
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Old 06-23-2016, 08:42 AM   #45
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I tried left foot breaking many years ago but I found it very hard to modulate the braking effort without one foot "anchored" to the floorboard. The deceleration from braking tended to cause me to brake harder. Also found it annoying to follow a driver who was riding his/her brakes as others have stated. Seems to me it is a practice to be avoided, but that's just my opinion.
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Old 06-23-2016, 08:52 AM   #46
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wow, that's almost as bad as when I hit fuel cut at 7000 rpm in my wrx - good thing I moved it to 8500


back on topic - not many of my racing friends left foot brake since they drive manuals - I tried and was never very good at it in my auto trannys
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Old 06-23-2016, 09:03 AM   #47
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A little practical advice: If one has become used to applying the brake and gas to hold on a hill, it's time to learn about using the hand brake instead. That's how we learned to do it in drivers ed. I've never forgotten it. Of course, GM and others still use the foot emergency brake which is a bit more challenging, but it still works - also the way we learned it in drivers ed when all cars were GM or Ford in drivers ed.
Not all cars have a hand brake. The foot emergency brake in our Toyota wouldn't work or at least would be a pain to use. At that point, why not use the actual brake? Make your life easier.

The hand brake technique reminds me of when I had a manual transmission. I hated hills. No real joy in having to use both feet to engage acceleration and a hand brake to make sure you didn't roll back too far. It makes me appreciate our newer Subaru, where I get all of that functionality at a push of a button.
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Old 06-23-2016, 09:11 AM   #48
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The only time I've used both feet is when stopped on a steep incline. I'd gradually add gas while holding the brake to minimize the car from rolling backwards.
I used the hand brake in those situations, but it applies more to a stick shift...left foot clutch, right foot gas, ease off on the hand brake while letting out the clutch and pressing the gas pedal.
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Old 06-23-2016, 09:34 AM   #49
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Did you test drive this Honda before you bought it? (I guess that's redundant). Have you called the dealer to ask him about the situation? Sounds like the car might be broken. And, what kind of Honda is it--because I don't want one.

Late to this thread and have not read all the comments...

But I bet big $$$s that this is part of the various sudden acceleration issues that come up off and on over the years... the latest being Toyota....

So, if you have a gas reduction (just enough to keep the engine running) when the brake is applied and someone claims that they were trying to stop and were pushing down hard on the brake but they were still doing 100 mph... well, that is probably false...

This is a safety issue... and I bet that it is in more cars than you might think... I will have to check my Honda and see.... but it is not a newer version...
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Old 06-23-2016, 10:04 AM   #50
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It's actually been a problem for me. Pulling out into (or across) fast moving traffic, the car suddenly stops accelerating and slows very quickly. Pushing the accelerator down strongly will overcome this, but only after significant engine hesitation. Not fun in urban traffic.

.
My car has an autostop feature, but it also has a button to disable that feature. It's cool but is a PITA in stop and go traffic so I turn it off.

Does your Honda have some sort of override button?
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Old 06-23-2016, 10:07 AM   #51
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I do the left foot braking and right foot accelerating on up/down hills when I have to stop and go, because I would roll down a hill just a tiny bit if I don't. I thought everyone with an automatic had to do this...
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Old 06-23-2016, 10:30 AM   #52
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Interesting. I always wonder who these women are, who can just go around driving any old way, without consequences. Would a smart man really marry a silly woman who doesn't pay attention to her driving?

I think my reactions, etc. are only about average, so I am on the defensive when driving. As my Dad said, "Pretend everyone else on the road is crazy, and you are the only sane one." When I acquired a small sports car, I spent the coin for a 2-day performance driving course, by a former race car driver, on a racetrack. I wanted to know what I was doing. Interestingly, the most useful tip I took away from that course was how to drive in ice and snow. It really came in handy and has helped me avoid accidents.

As a young woman, I learned to drive during a period of high inflation when I had little enough to spend on gas, so I paid attention to gas-saving tips such as "plan your route" and "plan your braking." I consistently get excellent mileage. I once got 120K miles on a single clutch and set of brakes (the rest of the car wore out). feel as if these feckless women drivers you describe, must have always had someone else subsidizing them.


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S
The conversation took off on how irritating it was to ride with our wives. There were several "issues" discussed. MY particular pet peeve was my wife's tendency to accelerate until she was forced to stop. IOW On the gas until a crash would occur without vigorous braking. Personally, I've always tried to "play" the traffic, watch the lights ahead, etc. With DW, it's either go or stop. So I said "All women must have learned to drive in a Kiddy Kar. They don't think they are driving unless they are pushing a pedal." My statement (admittedly under a little "influence of wine") got a big round of laughter - from the men. The ladies, especially DW were not pleased. So, I did my best in the future not to criticize DW's driving, though I can't always resist showing her that I get 25mpg and she gets 22 on the same car with similar trips - guess it's just a guy thing.

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Old 06-23-2016, 10:45 AM   #53
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I see it as a hazard on the road and dislike following a left footed braker, (LFB) as some of them get tired and lightly touch the brake pedal instead of having their foot totally off the brake pedal.

So you see the car doing 70 down the freeway, and the brake light is flashing on, staying on, then off, then on, off , on , off .... etc etc.

Naturally it causes any driver following them to hit the brakes as well, until they learn then they pass the LFB and another person goes through the learning experience.

Plus if they ever truly needed to stop, nobody is going to believe it and could easily rear-end them.
That's the best argument (for or against) LFB I have heard so far
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Old 06-23-2016, 11:03 AM   #54
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I used the hand brake in those situations, but it applies more to a stick shift...left foot clutch, right foot gas, ease off on the hand brake while letting out the clutch and pressing the gas pedal.
Note that in newer models there is no longer an option to use the parking brake as an emergency brake, as the control is now a knob that you turn to apply the brake. No longer is there a lever to pull. I guess this is partly about with the multiple independent circuits in the service brake, that the brake is now a parking brake only.
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Old 06-23-2016, 11:13 AM   #55
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chalk this up to (bad) issues with newer model cars:

1) fuel cut (either by high rpm or braking)
2) TMPS sensors
3) Traction control

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Old 06-23-2016, 11:22 AM   #56
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Wow, with all the discussion generated about left foot braking, it would be really interesting to see the amount of discussion generated by heel-and-toe downshifting in a car with manual transmission.
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Old 06-23-2016, 11:31 AM   #57
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I completely agree. It's very unsafe to be going down the road with your brake lights on if you don't intend to brake. It's almost always older people who probably shouldn't be on the road at all..
Where are the elder abuse police when you need them? Keep in mind that "This is a friendly group here." This is not a place to stereotype.

Although, I have noticed the older I get, more people seem to be flipping me off when I drive. When they do this I scream at them that if they had left just two minutes earlier, they would not be stuck driving behind me. This often leads to my getting flipped off again--by the driver and her passengers.

Some people don't plan for the future, get frustrated, and then blame the older generation.
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Old 06-23-2016, 11:55 AM   #58
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As my dad got older he increasingly alternated gas-brake-gas-brake which I assume reflected feeling less at ease behind the wheel. This caused me to avoid letting him drive, so I'm not sure if he was using one or two feet. Everyone here knows the left foot is for either the clutch or the brights. I miss that hi-beam floor switch, was easier to access.

My new ride nannies acceleration. Punch the gas and the computer thinks it over for maybe a quarter second before complying but it feels longer. Reminds me of driving an old car that would hestitate. Makes me feel uneasy about getting on the highway, or any situation that can require a quick response.
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Old 06-23-2016, 11:57 AM   #59
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Obviously we need to come up with some activities Michael can do with his left foot once he stops using it for braking. I'm thinking Honda should move his brights/regular headlights control to the floor (remember that little button that used to be there?)--maybe the windshield wipers control can be moved there too. Or a virtual soccer ball to play with, to improve his left-foot shots, in honor of the Copa and Euro cups.

ETA: I see Grayhare also remembers the headlights control! Great minds etc. etc.
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Old 06-23-2016, 12:32 PM   #60
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RE: hills and two-footed brake/accelerator -

I'm pretty sure that any car that has this safety (at least intended safety) feature, also has the feature that the brake stays applied at a stop after removing your foot (either foot), until the accelerator can overcome any tendency to roll backwards.

Can anyone confirm?
side note: I wonder if the programmers thought this through and disabled it when you are in Reverse, or reversed the logic. If not, I can imagine the test driver in the first prototype, after checking it out, and it seems OK, and then trying to parallel park it and yelling "Why Can't I back this &^%&^%( thing up!"
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