Spiritual Science, Sacred Geometry, Anthroposophy

[NewTimes]

Not knowledgeable about this, I stumbled onto one definition of Anthroposophy"



Doesn't sound like something this place would have much of going on..

Not sure where you got your definition but that is not my experience. Here is the definition from Wiki:
"Anthroposophy is the philosophy founded by Rudolf Steiner that postulates the existence of an objective, intellectually comprehensible spiritual world, accessible to human experience through inner development. More specifically, it aims to develop faculties of perceptive imagination, inspiration and intuition through the cultivation of a form of thinking independent of sensory experience,[1][2] and to present the results thus derived in a manner subject to rational verification. Anthroposophy aims to attain in its study of spiritual experience the precision and clarity attained by the natural sciences in their investigations of the physical world.[1]

The philosophy has double roots in German idealist philosophy and German mysticism[3] and was initially expressed in language drawn from Theosophy. Steiner chose the term anthroposophy (from anthropo-, human, and Sophia, wisdom) to emphasize the humanistic orientation of his world-conception.

Anthroposophical ideas have been applied practically in many areas including Steiner/Waldorf education, special education (most prominently through the Camphill Movement), biodynamic agriculture, medicine, ethical banking, organizational development, and the arts.[1][4][5][6][7] The Anthroposophical Society has its international center at the Goetheanum in Dornach, Switzerland.

Michael Shermer and Michael Ruse have termed anthroposophy's application in areas such as medicine, biology, and biodynamic agriculture to be pseudoscience;[8][9] Olav Hammer and Tom Grote have termed anthroposophy "the most important esoteric society in European history."[10][11]"

 

[Oz investor]

when much younger i did get to see Julius Sumner Miller in person ,

and i was inspired and my natural curiosity aroused , i like to explore the science rather than blindly accept the fact

 

[ls99]

Shall we explore the resonant frequencies of crystals?

 

[NewTimes]

Well, according to my system of beliefs, it absolutely does count. What makes someone else's system of beliefs any more viable than my system of beliefs?


You did get insightful dialog (some of it with a dash of friendly humor/sarcasm, but that's OK, IMO). If you did not recognize it as such, it might be due to you being closed minded.


"Spiritual Science"? Science can be good. Spirituality can be good. But it seems to me that anyone with a basic understanding of both would recognize that phrase as an oxymoron.


-ERD50

My intent with the post is to allow all who disagree or agree to express their beliefs. It's not about being right or wrong. It's about different world view points on the same topic. Being able to view a single point from different perspectives is the key to gaining wisdom. Conversing only with those who agree all with us all the time simply limits one and shackles them from gaining an expanded perspective.

One is entitled to have their ultra conservative world view as one is able to have their ultra liberal perspective. It's when we try to convince or coerce another into our world view, who we feel it the only right answer, do we become as weak as those who we are trying to convince. Or in a more simple explanation, our Ego gets in the way.

 

[OldShooter]

... Criticizing improbable, unproven, unfalsifiable "science" will get a person labelled as "close minded," don't ask how I know this.

Count me in! I recently got a color postcard from a chiropractor offering to cure my allergies and hay fever. By rubbing my back, I guess.

The guy who "invented" chiropractic "maintained that the notion and basic principles of chiropractic treatment were passed along to him during a seance by a long-dead doctor."

"Before learning of spinal adjustments from a supernatural entity, Palmer spent nine years as a practitioner of what was known as "magnetic healing," in which he would diagnose and cure ailments by manipulating a magnetic field surrounding the patient's body." -- LA Times article: Chiropractic treatment, a $15-billion industry, has its roots in a ghost story

 

[redshift]

I call that open-minded. Open to reality, rather than blind, mystical belief in something without proof, simply because you enjoy believing it.

I'm sorry, this is a sore spot for me right now. A close relative chose the mystical path when diagnosed with cancer a few years ago, refusing "real" medical help. She's dying now as we speak, and regrets that decision. It's hard to watch what it's done to her family.

But it's worse than that one case. I think society in general is much too willing to accept BS (and, trying not to get too political here) has lost its grounding in fact or reality.

Modern medicine is simply what happens when traditional belief systems and folk remedies are rigorously tested. The ones proven effective make the cut. Many don't.



Well said.

+1

 

[Oz investor]

considering band ( or string ) theory is a concept rising in acceptance , do we know anything at all , and have we been following a string of false assumptions , much like the previously embraced flat earth theory and the Earth centric universe

 

[redshift]

Vaccines work when (typically) proteins of the target pathogen trigger a measurable, effective immune response. In homeopathy, a substance that is supposed to represent the illness-causing entity is diluted to the point that not a single molecule likely remains in the eventual solution, which is administered to the patient. I'm sure there are many variations on this theme that various homeopathic believers claim to be more effective. We understand how vaccines work. We don't understand how homeopathy could possibly work, and controlled studies clearly indicate it does not.

+1

 

[Oz investor]

Shall we explore the resonant frequencies of crystals?

it might be fun , the family used to collect gem stones when i was a child , i still have a large selection of various types
... AND i also have reasonable amount of audio music gear

i would not have to start from zero

 

[ERD50]

ERD50,

show vaccines that work ( on me ) apart from Tetanus and Polio everything i have been vaccinated against i have caught at least twice afterwards

i had to withdraw from a medical research project for just this reason

neither treatment had the desired outcome on me , so does my adverse outcomes prove or disprove the similar theories

quite obviously i have since become an anti-vax believer , based on personal outcomes

now the complexity sets in when i have a self elluding device ( delivers a chemical to suppress the immune system ) but also regular vaccinations that fail to achieve their goal to ward off illnesses i am now more likely to get more often

... so how can i not tolerate homeopathy theory but believe vaccine theory when they both fail when that should succeed ... and homeopathy has only failed me once from one course of treatment

You clearly are not interested in serious discussion (or a less charitable possibility, you are not capable of it?). I never said that vaccines work on 100% of the population, 100% of the time, with zero side effects and or risk So if they didn't work for you, that is just another logical fallacy regarding their overall suitability.

And not surprisingly, you didn't give me any actual, valid evidence (not anecdote) for homeopathy working, even with a far less stringent definition of 'working'.

So until you are ready to address the issue with something a bit more rigorous than what you've provided so far, I'll bow out.

-ERD50

 

[Nemo2]

Reminds me of this:

https://www.pyramid-cafe.in/Power.html

Artificial flavorings in food will loose their taste

Ooookay.

 

[Oz investor]

My intent with the post is to allow all who disagree or agree to express their beliefs. It's not about being right or wrong. It's about different world view points on the same topic. Being able to view a single point from different perspectives is the key to gaining wisdom. Conversing only with those who agree all with us all the time simply limits one and shackles them from gaining an expanded perspective.

One is entitled to have their ultra conservative world view as one is able to have their ultra liberal perspective. It's when we try to convince or coerce another into our world view, who we feel it the only right answer, do we become as weak as those who we are trying to convince. Or in a more simple explanation, our Ego gets in the way.

put me in the undecided column , but willing to listen and think about it

cheers

 

[REWahoo]

My intent with the post is to allow all who disagree or agree to express their beliefs.

Fair enough, although your statement sounds like it might have been taken from the pages of "How to Troll the Internet for Fun and Profit".

I believe Spiritual Science, Sacred Geometry, and Anthroposophy is total hogwash.

Please note I'm only expressing my belief as is your stated intent.

 

[38Chevy454]

I think I need to sit inside my pyramid, with my tin foil hat on, while in an altered state of mind, to make sense of this discussion.


Until then, I'll stick with usual daily routine where i don't think about spiritual science, sacred geometry or anthroposophy. I have never concerned myself with any of those, and do not anticipate needing to in the future.

 

[Oz investor]

You clearly are not interested in serious discussion (or a less charitable possibility, you are not capable of it?). I never said that vaccines work on 100% of the population, 100% of the time, with zero side effects and or risk So if they didn't work for you, that is just another logical fallacy regarding their overall suitability.

And not surprisingly, you didn't give me any actual, valid evidence for homeopathy working, even with a far less stringent definition of 'working'.

So until you are ready to address the issue with something a bit more rigorous than what you've provided so far, I'll bow out.

-ERD50

i am interested in a serious discussion , but sometimes accepted concept clash with personal experiences and outcomes

i like to question all unusual outcomes ( what went right or wrong , and can i improve those outcomes ... because i don't have a uni degree i can't call that science )

just like the Wright Brothers couldn't fly .. but did

 

[Nemo2]

"Turn on, tune in, drop out" Timothy Leary....1966.

 

[ERD50]

Vaccines work when (typically) proteins of the target pathogen trigger a measurable, effective immune response. In homeopathy, a substance that is supposed to represent the illness-causing entity is diluted to the point that not a single molecule likely remains in the eventual solution, which is administered to the patient. I'm sure there are many variations on this theme that various homeopathic believers claim to be more effective. We understand how vaccines work. We don't understand how homeopathy could possibly work, and controlled studies clearly indicate it does not.

Hopefully, it is OK to inject a little humor at this point, as I heard this one recently:

" A man was being 'treated' by a practitioner of homeopathy. This practitioner explained, that the more dilutions that were made, the stronger the 'medicine' would be.

The man went on vacation, and ran out the homeopathic dilution. He was forced to drink regular water.

He died of an overdose."
​

-ERD50

 

[OldShooter]

... So until you are ready to address the issue with something a bit more rigorous than what you've provided so far, I'll bow out. ...

I just tried "ignore" for the first time. Worked like a champion!

 

[easysurfer]

I didn't do well in Geometry class in High School .

 

[Oz investor]

i also said homeopathy did NOT work for me just like over 30 vaccinations have failed to protect from the illnesses intended .

if homeopathy had of worked but the vaccinations failed we could have explored the Placebo effect ( one unusual positive outcome )

 

[ERD50]

i am interested in a serious discussion , but sometimes accepted concept clash with personal experiences and outcomes

i like to question all unusual outcomes ( what went right or wrong , and can i improve those outcomes ... because i don't have a uni degree i can't call that science )

just like the Wright Brothers couldn't fly .. but did

Nope. Not like that at all.

Here, I assume you have this bookmarked, or committed to memory, but if not:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

-ERD50

 

[Chuckanut]

Spiritual Science?

I think it was Richard Feynman who said - Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.

However, let me toss out two words - Quantum Theory.

Many things in the realm of Quantum Physics can appear to be some type of magic or miracle if one thinks about it. Electrons that travel back and forth in time, electrons that can spin clockwise and counterclockwise at the same time, and particles that seem to communicate instantly across space with no time lapse and no observable connection. Cats that can be both alive and dead until you open the box and observe them - you've got to love quantum superposition.

Neils Bohr - "Anybody who is not shocked by quantum theory has not understood it".

 

[ERD50]

I just tried "ignore" for the first time. Worked like a champion!

But then you miss the follow up posts, which can be a form of entertainment, and certainly a form of validation of doing a 'virtual ignore'!

More seriously, I have seen helpful posts from people who had earlier posted 'stuff' that made me think of hitting the ignore button. Just because someone is off-the-wall in one area, doesn't mean they can't contribute in some other area.

What was someone saying about a 'closed mind' (edit for clarity - directed at the 'magic idea ' posters, not at 'OldShooter')?

-ERD50

 

[Nemo2]

the Placebo effect

Plus...placebos are waaay cheaper.

 

[ER Eddie]

Not sure where you got your definition but that is not my experience. Here is the definition from Wiki:

"Anthroposophy is the philosophy founded by Rudolf Steiner that postulates the existence of an objective, intellectually comprehensible spiritual world, accessible to human experience through inner development. More specifically, it aims to develop faculties of perceptive imagination, inspiration and intuition through the cultivation of a form of thinking independent of sensory experience,[1][2] and to present the results thus derived in a manner subject to rational verification. Anthroposophy aims to attain in its study of spiritual experience the precision and clarity attained by the natural sciences in their investigations of the physical world.[1]

Well, that's interesting, if a bit vague. I agree with the first sentence. There certainly is an objective, comprehensible spiritual world, accessible internally (and externally). I don't know what to make of the second sentence. I would need to see examples of how the practice developed internal faculties and then (especially) what sort of results came from that.

On the face of it, I would have doubts about the objectivity of the data it derives. If all you're looking at is internal, subjective experience, it is very hard to demonstrate that has objectivity.


Personally, instead of asking if anyone is interested, I'd be more curious to hear about your views of the subject. I can understand if you didn't want to, though. This forum seems to be composed mostly traditional, pragmatically minded people with engineering, finance, administrative, or similar backgrounds. Esoteric spiritual subjects aren't likely to get a warm reception.