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Old 11-03-2015, 12:28 PM   #21
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So I suppose you figured that Mozart's "Twelve Variations on Vous dirai-je, Maman" was a big let down after bar 24. (It's a masterwork of theme and variation, the theme being the tune of old French folk song, which you'd now recognize as "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star".) And I suppose there is no point in ever going to Morimoto's for sushi. After all, I'm sure that it's no different from the sushi available at the supermarket. And it was pretty pointless to make The Wizard of Oz in 1939, given that it had just been made in 1925.

I'm being facetious, of course. My point is that some of the very best things I've enjoyed were cases where someone added their own originality and creative vision to something preexisting. The usage of a preexisting universe - especially with regard to fantasy, science fiction, and related genres - allows the creator to focus on building up above the surface level, instead of having to waste so much of the readers' (viewers') time building the ground level itself.
I can relate...but...when watching "Into Darkness" and it turned out to be a Khan rehash it was an eye rolling headshaking really this again moment.

Sure, use the established 'infrastructure', make some tweaks, but take us where no one has gone before!
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Old 11-03-2015, 12:46 PM   #22
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I can relate...but...when watching "Into Darkness" and it turned out to be a Khan rehash it was an eye rolling headshaking really this again moment.

Sure, use the established 'infrastructure', make some tweaks, but take us where no one has gone before!
IMHO, Abrams does not understand what Star Trek is about. He appears to have a good understanding of what blowing things up is about.

I do understand the reset of the initial series however. Making new movies with Kirk and Spock would have been difficult if they had to be completely coordinated with all the ST stories of the past 50 years. So, that was a tough but probably necessary decision. But, blowing up Vulcan?!??!? They could have done it much more subtly, for example, by simply delaying the Human-Vulcan alliance a few years. Or messing a bit with the timing of the Federation. Blowing up planets is for adolescent kids and Star Wars fanatics.
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Old 11-03-2015, 12:47 PM   #23
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I can relate...but...when watching "Into Darkness" and it turned out to be a Khan rehash it was an eye rolling headshaking really this again moment.
An example of an non-creative rehash is not proof that all variations on a theme must be offensively derivative.
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Old 11-03-2015, 01:31 PM   #24
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They have an entire Galaxy to use as story material. It's the imagination and creativity of the writers that is needed. FWIW, the two recent movies show a serious lack of both imagination and creativity IMHO. Unless one considers lots of blasting, blowing-up and generally unbelievable mayhem to be creative.
Come to think of it, none of the ST movies had the imagination and creativity. All the movies were some variation of past episodes, or prequel/sequel to one.
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Old 11-03-2015, 06:02 PM   #25
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I can wait for it to come out on Netflix. I still have enough old TV series that interest me that I haven't seen yet.

Cheers!
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Old 11-03-2015, 06:24 PM   #26
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An example of an non-creative rehash is not proof that all variations on a theme must be offensively derivative.
But this one was and just added one more nail to the franchise coffin.
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Old 11-03-2015, 06:34 PM   #27
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IMHO, Abrams does not understand what Star Trek is about. He appears to have a good understanding of what blowing things up is about.
You are not the only one who think this.

Many fear that "Jar Jar" Abrams will also leave carnage behind with the Star Wars franchise.
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Old 11-03-2015, 07:16 PM   #28
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The original series had scripts derived from stories written by some of the greats in SF. Not all were gems, but many were. The later series devolved into little more than soap operas.
If the new series has an emphasis on good and interesting stories in the SF tradition, I'll be a fan. If it is "about" the characters, count me out.
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Old 11-03-2015, 07:27 PM   #29
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I can wait for it to come out on Netflix. I still have enough old TV series that interest me that I haven't seen yet.
Same here. Maybe someday I'll get around to watching Seinfeld.
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Old 11-03-2015, 08:18 PM   #30
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Movies are where the effects people hold sway. Much less so for the home screen, so all the hand wringing on that seems overblown. Unlike samclem, you can do character development, I don't mind. Its how those characters interact with the aliens and stuff that has potential. If you don't care about the characters, well, just turn it off. And STNG rehashed dozens of stories from TOS, and I enjoyed that series tremendously. I also enjoyed Voyager. DS9, not so much, but thought Enterprise could have gone on longer...one may recall STNG season 1 was, well, not nearly as good as later, when they finally got their feet under them. Scifi TV is currently a wasteland; many of us would welcome anything, even if it took some time to get going. As for paying for it, I wouldn't subscribe just for the one show, but I bet resourceful people will somehow manage to watch.
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Old 11-03-2015, 10:17 PM   #31
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Movies are where the effects people hold sway. Much less so for the home screen, so all the hand wringing on that seems overblown. Unlike samclem, you can do character development, I don't mind. Its how those characters interact with the aliens and stuff that has potential. If you don't care about the characters, well, just turn it off. And STNG rehashed dozens of stories from TOS, and I enjoyed that series tremendously. I also enjoyed Voyager. DS9, not so much, but thought Enterprise could have gone on longer...one may recall STNG season 1 was, well, not nearly as good as later, when they finally got their feet under them. Scifi TV is currently a wasteland; many of us would welcome anything, even if it took some time to get going. As for paying for it, I wouldn't subscribe just for the one show, but I bet resourceful people will somehow manage to watch.

Yea, I used to watch a number of shows on SciFi, even some of the really cheesy bad ones... just so I could get a SciFi fix.... I am not into the vampires or others like that, so the current batch is slow for me...


I guess I will have to check... I might have a couple from the channel... however, there was one (cannot remember the name) that was pretty good IMO... but they upped and made one last show and it was gone quickly.... (OK, had to look it up... Stargate Universe)
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Old 11-04-2015, 01:27 AM   #32
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Unlike samclem, you can do character development, I don't mind. Its how those characters interact with the aliens and stuff that has potential. If you don't care about the characters, well, just turn it off.
Definitely agree. The Star Trek I grew up with was The Next Generation, and I loved it. I can appreciate the original series, but I'm firmly in the Picard and NCC-1701-D camp. To me, Data ranks as one of the best character development arcs I've seen in a TV series.

I also have to say, I thoroughly enjoyed JJ's two films, and their take on the characters. If I wanted to see mindless overblown special effects, no story, and horrible character development, I'd go see a Michael Bay film. Otherwise, I'll cut JJ some slack on the overuse of lens flares or blowing up the occasional planet.

As far as the other Star Trek series, DS9 and Voyager were entertaining enough. But I couldn't get into Enterprise at all, it just didn't do it for me.

I'm interested to see what they can pull off for another Star Trek TV series. I just hope the casting is as strong, and it's as long-lived, as TNG.
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Old 11-04-2015, 03:25 AM   #33
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I can wait for it to come out on Netflix.
The best guess now is that it won't come out on Netflix streaming, since it is being produced for a competing streaming service.

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But this one was and just added one more nail to the franchise coffin.
But just one nail. I provided three nail removing claws.
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Old 11-04-2015, 03:35 AM   #34
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Um...er....I have pretty much liked all of the Star Trek related things I have ever seen. Yes, IMHO, some are better than others but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy something just for the sake of enjoying it.
Star Wars, yep I liked it all also. Of course again some is better than others but I have never felt that my spirit was mortally wounded by watching and enjoying any of it.
All I really require of my entertainment is to well, entertain me....that is really it. If it doesn't, I move on to something else.
If they make it then there is a pretty good chance that I will watch it at some point and decide for myself if I liked it or not.
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Old 11-04-2015, 06:55 AM   #35
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I'm still waiting for the modern equal of Rocky and Bullwinkle.
youtube rocky and bullwinkle episodes - Bing video
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Old 11-04-2015, 07:15 AM   #36
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I've only followed the the original series (TOS) and The Next Generation (TNG). Before all this watch stuff whenever you want thing, I used to look forward to recording TNG on VHS when it aired and sometimes not watch for several weeks then binge watch.

A lot of great characters in both series. My favorite top 4 in order are probably Spock, Picard, Kirk, Data.

One of my favorite episodes of TNG is "Frame of Mind" where Riker doesn't know what's real and what's not.

Of DS9, cracks me up that the actor that played of Quark is also played Principal Snyder on Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
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Old 11-04-2015, 05:09 PM   #37
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Sweet! I bookmarked that one.
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