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Old 04-06-2008, 03:11 AM   #21
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DW is the sloppy one so I usually pick up after her. I also do all the yard work, clean the floors, vacuum the carpets, fix the cars, fix the motorhome, fix the house, wash my clothes ( she does her own), take care of the dogs, do the dishes, cook a few times a week, do the bills and fiances, take care of the yard, etc. I was brought up doing these things and more by my mother and dad who shared the house work load.
I.m in the same boat as you SteveR. Not only is the wife a slob but my two daughters have inherited the affliction,i'd say i do 90% of all housework which takes some time every day and usually gets me wondering why i bother because the rest of the family certainly doesnt care,about the only thing the wife does is the laundry, and of course now that i'm retired every one thinks that i have all the time in the world to be the house slaveI saw a show on Oprah last week about a woman with a cluttered house and i was thinking yup i'm not far away,we are at the point where there is no place to put anything so the place seems to be in total chaos,obviously friends havent been over to our house in years
OK enough whining i've got 2 loads of dishes to do.
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Old 04-06-2008, 11:46 AM   #22
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Hey Steve.. I was taught the same. Learn how to cook and sew..clean. Stereotypes got to love em. Though sometimes its good to play along
I know what you mean. Second wife was a real clean-freak and organizer. I just let her go and she did it all. I was not messy so it made life easier for her and her top notch organizing and hyper-clean desires matched mine pretty well. I just did the outside stuff, mechanical stuff and the bills. Current DW is on the opposite side of the scale so I have to do the lion's share of the pickup and put away routine.

My brother is a PIG. You would never know we were raised in the same house. He leaves a trail of stuff in his wake as he moves through the world. His wife is an angel and put up with it but it would drive me nuts. He would be the poster child for this thread.
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Old 04-06-2008, 12:12 PM   #23
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My brother is a PIG. You would never know we were raised in the same house. He leaves a trail of stuff in his wake as he moves through the world. His wife is an angel and put up with it but it would drive me nuts. He would be the poster child for this thread.
I wonder how his dwelling would look if he lived alone. Would he pick up his stuff if no one else did?
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Old 04-06-2008, 12:30 PM   #24
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I wonder how his dwelling would look if he lived alone. Would he pick up his stuff if no one else did?
My ex was like that, but has never lived alone. First he lived with his parents, then on the ship while in the Navy, then with me, then (after divorce) with my daughter, and now he's living with his parents again. He is 58 now and I doubt he will ever live alone.

At least by now I presume he has learned to write a check. He never had done that during his first half century of life.
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If this article is correct, even one more time may not be enough
Old 04-06-2008, 12:30 PM   #25
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If this article is correct, even one more time may not be enough

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There's nothing wrong with that. A little love and compassion never hurt anyone.

Here is a nice love song. As Tennillle would say to the Captain - Do that to me one more time



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Old 04-06-2008, 03:29 PM   #26
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Ha,
Great article - 1 to 2 minutes is "too short" and it is not fair to either party involved.

So now with my 500th post I turn it over to the Minister of Love the GREAT ONE - Mr. Barry White - Can't Get Enough Of Your Love Babe.



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Old 04-06-2008, 08:45 PM   #27
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Another male-bashing "women are good, men are bad" article - one that does not accurately represent reality.

I do not doubt that married women spend more hours on household chores than unmarried women. This should be no surprise since married women spend considerably less time in the workforce than unmarried women. Many women have the opportunity to spend more time at home because they have husbands who support them. This is an advantage and choice for women (provided by their husbands labor), not a burden.

The opposite is true for men. Married men spend more time in the workforce than unmarried men. This is known as the marriage premium. Most studies find that the combined hours spent on the job and on household chores is slightly greater for men than it is for women. However, there are no articles implying that "women aren't doing their share." In today's world, political correctness is much more important than reality.

Is it any wonder that more and more men are refusing to marry? Work your butt off supporting a family and then get criticized for not doing enough. Then lose your house, children, and dog in a divorce. Yeah. This marriage thing sounds like a real good deal for men. Where can I sign up.
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Old 04-06-2008, 09:16 PM   #28
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Another male-bashing "women are good, men are bad" article - one that does not accurately represent reality.

I do not doubt that married women spend more hours on household chores than unmarried women. This should be no surprise since married women spend considerably less time in the workforce than unmarried women. Many women have the opportunity to spend more time at home because they have husbands who support them. This is an advantage and choice for women (provided by their husbands labor), not a burden.

The opposite is true for men. Married men spend more time in the workforce than unmarried men. This is known as the marriage premium. Most studies find that the combined hours spent on the job and on household chores is slightly greater for men than it is for women. However, there are no articles implying that "women aren't doing their share." In today's world, political correctness is much more important than reality.

Is it any wonder that more and more men are refusing to marry? Work your butt off supporting a family and then get criticized for not doing enough. Then lose your house, children, and dog in a divorce. Yeah. This marriage thing sounds like a real good deal for men. Where can I sign up.

Dude you sign up when #1 you find the right women

#2 you grow up
#3 you understand that it is your home also and that living in a clean environment is nice and that sometimes doing the cleaning up yourself and not expecting the women in your life to do it is well priceless.

#4 The women you marry is NOT YOUR MOTHER.

More and more men are refusing to marry ... Humm well from my observations the sideways baseball hat and pants hanging down below their waists and well oversized tells me they are still in elementary school, these men still have not grown up. And well with so many being raised without fathers well what would you expect. Oversized little boys.
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Old 04-06-2008, 09:17 PM   #29
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Another male-bashing "women are good, men are bad" article - one that does not accurately represent reality. ...


...Is it any wonder that more and more men are refusing to marry? Work your butt off supporting a family and then get criticized for not doing enough. Then lose your house, children, and dog in a divorce. Yeah. This marriage thing sounds like a real good deal for men. Where can I sign up.
So, tell us how you REALLY feel about the subject.

Some pretty strong statements here. Do you have documented sources to back them up? Don't be surprised if you get challenged on these. Over the top statements seem to stir up a lot of folks. Be prepared to defend your sources.
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Old 04-06-2008, 10:56 PM   #30
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Ha,
Great article - 1 to 2 minutes is "too short" and it is not fair to either party involved.

So now with my 500th post I turn it over to the Minister of Love the GREAT ONE - Mr. Barry White - Can't Get Enough Of Your Love Babe.



GOD BLESS US ALL
The great Barry White, The Prime Minister of Soul. This was back when male soul singers still enjoyed women, called them Babe, not B*tch.

Nothing like a fine woman and some genuine soul music.

Let's all raise up our voices and do a Chicago Step in praise of real women!

Ha
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Old 04-07-2008, 05:23 AM   #31
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HeMan Woman Haters'

I'm really hoping the majority of women today in their early 20's (I said majority! Not yours specifically, who if not a crazy self-absorbed, partying every night, flirt with everything that moves, never heard of going Dutch kind of girl you should tell me more about immediately) grow out of whatever funk this is and grow a brain. Maybe it happens after they get a career? I can't say the same of guys my age, because I'd be labeled a traitor. It's like Man Rule #23.

Of the many women I've known, in various forms of relationships, there was only one who paid for our meal. And it was the first time we went out to eat together. To me it spoke less about money and more about...I don't know what, but I was amazed and humbled. We lived in sin together for a while, and I would clean and vacuum before she got home sometimes, and we would clean together at other times. I'd cook us breakfast, and she'd cook dinner, or tried to cook while I tried to ravage her. She did the laundry sometimes, I did other times (after she showed me how she did hers, which is different from the throw-it-all-in-on-cold that I do), sometimes we did it together. It blew my mind, the quality of the relationship we had. We loved each other to death, and knew that although we were living under the same roof, we didn't give in to the temptation to let the other person adopt the chores. We meaning I, the other person meaning her.

The only thing she didn't do, and that I liked to do, was wash her car and my motorcycle. She liked to wash the dog and I let her, but I'd go out to watch. It was like a free wet t-shirt contest of one.

I have to search the world, looking for that woman-girl. I fear for the quality of women being raised here.
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Old 04-07-2008, 05:33 AM   #32
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Dr. Irwin Goldstein, editor of the Journal of Sexual Medicine, cited a four-week study of 1,500 couples in 2005 that found the median time for sexual intercourse was 7.3 minutes. (Women were armed with stopwatches.)

That's a confident man who'll let his SO arm the stopwatch. I wonder how many guys suffered from performance anxiety?

A really cocky guy would have bought an extra battery.
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Old 04-07-2008, 08:01 AM   #33
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Retired Gypsy, since you mentioned the HeMan Woman Haters as the title for your post - I hope that you and others will enjoy this all time classic from the 3 stooges.




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Old 04-07-2008, 08:55 AM   #34
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Is it any wonder that more and more men are refusing to marry? Work your butt off supporting a family and then get criticized for not doing enough. Then lose your house, children, and dog in a divorce. Yeah. This marriage thing sounds like a real good deal for men. Where can I sign up.
Yeah, I've lost the house and dogs in a divorce (no kids). I rolled the dice and lost the bet on that one and I knew it was a gamble going in. Everything in life is a gamble, unless you're going to stay home and hide in the closet. But it's one of life's risks that I chose to take. But I learned from it. Wife #1 left when I refused to take out a loan for a trip when we were already flat broke, implying that she meant it when she said she wanted someone who "made enough money to keep me in the style to which I want to become accustomed". It was more complicated that that of course, but that was the bottom line.

Without that experience I would not appreciate wife #2 as much as I do - next July will be 20 years of wedded bliss. She doesn't care about lavish spending, taking high-end trips, or what's on sale this week. She's a wonderful, gentle, caring person and in a lot of ways I wish I could be more like her, but I can't because that's not me. But what I can do is encourage her and offer what support to her that I can. She didn't have a comfy pension coming so when I retired I took the spousal benefit option and took a heavy hit on income because she's 6 years younger than me. That's okay, because almost 20 years ago I looked her straight in the eye and made a bunch of promises both "expressed and implied" as the lawyers would say.

And when I look at her I still see the girl in the wedding dress. Sign me up, dude.
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Old 04-07-2008, 09:31 AM   #35
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Yeah, I've lost the house and dogs in a divorce (no kids). I rolled the dice and lost the bet on that one and I knew it was a gamble going in. Everything in life is a gamble, unless you're going to stay home and hide in the closet. But it's one of life's risks that I chose to take. But I learned from it. Wife #1 left when I refused to take out a loan for a trip when we were already flat broke, implying that she meant it when she said she wanted someone who "made enough money to keep me in the style to which I want to become accustomed". It was more complicated that that of course, but that was the bottom line.

Without that experience I would not appreciate wife #2 as much as I do - next July will be 20 years of wedded bliss. She doesn't care about lavish spending, taking high-end trips, or what's on sale this week. She's a wonderful, gentle, caring person and in a lot of ways I wish I could be more like her, but I can't because that's not me. But what I can do is encourage her and offer what support to her that I can. She didn't have a comfy pension coming so when I retired I took the spousal benefit option and took a heavy hit on income because she's 6 years younger than me. That's okay, because almost 20 years ago I looked her straight in the eye and made a bunch of promises both "expressed and implied" as the lawyers would say.

And when I look at her I still see the girl in the wedding dress. Sign me up, dude.
Aw!!! That is so sweet!!! My best to both of you and congratulations on finding such a wonderful relationship.
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Old 04-07-2008, 12:34 PM   #36
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So, tell us how you REALLY feel about the subject.

Some pretty strong statements here. Do you have documented sources to back them up? Don't be surprised if you get challenged on these. Over the top statements seem to stir up a lot of folks. Be prepared to defend your sources.
I'm not Shawn, but I can identify somewhat with his narrative (although I don't personally feel the level of bitterness I sense from Shawn's words).

A paper I found online, authored by a professor at Stanford University, points out that approximately 2/3 of divorces are initiated by women. If one combines this statistic with the popularly assumed statistic that 50% of marriages end in divorce, there is about a 1 in 3 chance that a man marrying today will have his wife divorce him. Not very good odds.

Here's the paper, which is interesting reading: http://paa2005.princeton.edu/downloa...issionId=51210

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Old 04-07-2008, 12:59 PM   #37
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[/U]Years ago when we first got married my parents would call once in a while and say they were going to stop by in a little while. OMG, we had just 25 minutes to get the place shipshape. I was usually putting the vacuum in the closet when the doorbell rang.
Ha....that happened during our entire 20 year marriage!! (still does happen once in a while )
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Old 04-07-2008, 01:11 PM   #38
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Dw has a new theory she learned at work from other women - most of house can be slightly messy when you're not expecting guests - but the kitchen has to be clean all the time in case someone shows up unexpectedly.
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Old 04-07-2008, 01:57 PM   #39
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I'm not Shawn, but I can identify somewhat with his narrative (although I don't personally feel the level of bitterness I sense from Shawn's words).

A paper I found online, authored by a professor at Stanford University, points out that approximately 2/3 of divorces are initiated by women. If one combines this statistic with the popularly assumed statistic that 50% of marriages end in divorce, there is about a 1 in 3 chance that a man marrying today will have his wife divorce him. Not very good odds.

Here's the paper, which is interesting reading: http://paa2005.princeton.edu/downloa...issionId=51210

2Cor521
I've never been married and do not have children so it's not a question of being bitter, at least with respect to marriage. However, I have seen the impact of broken families on others and on society.

But I am bitter about gender double standards and about how men are perceived. Many men feel this way, although most do not voice their concerns out of fear of being labeled with various derogatory names. This is one reason why women often take leading roles in the fathers movement and why half of authors on mens issues are women. Fortunately, this is beginning to change and more and more men (and women who love men) are speaking out.

You are correct. As most people know, about 50% of marriages end in divorce. What most people don't know is that 70% of divorces are initiated by women. What even fewer people know is that the primary reasons women give for initiating divorce are not substantial causes such as adultery, abuse, or desertion, but "fluff" reasons such as "we grew apart" or "we fell out of love" (for example, you can check out research by Sanford Braver and others).

But it doesn't matter what the research says because men will be blamed. If a man initiates divorce, the man will be blamed. If the woman initiates divorce, the man will be blamed. Or in case of household chores (the topic of this thread), if men spend 13 hours a week more than women on the job and women spend 10 hours a week more than men on housework, men will be criticized for not doing their share.
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Old 04-07-2008, 02:00 PM   #40
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So now can I go asking for grant money to see if women are more attracted to tall guys with a full head of hair than they are to short, balding guys like me?
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