Study - Slobby guys create more work for wives

Another male-bashing "women are good, men are bad" article - one that does not accurately represent reality.

I do not doubt that married women spend more hours on household chores than unmarried women. This should be no surprise since married women spend considerably less time in the workforce than unmarried women. Many women have the opportunity to spend more time at home because they have husbands who support them. This is an advantage and choice for women (provided by their husbands labor), not a burden.

The opposite is true for men. Married men spend more time in the workforce than unmarried men. This is known as the marriage premium. Most studies find that the combined hours spent on the job and on household chores is slightly greater for men than it is for women. However, there are no articles implying that "women aren't doing their share." In today's world, political correctness is much more important than reality.

Is it any wonder that more and more men are refusing to marry? Work your butt off supporting a family and then get criticized for not doing enough. Then lose your house, children, and dog in a divorce. Yeah. This marriage thing sounds like a real good deal for men. Where can I sign up.
 
Another male-bashing "women are good, men are bad" article - one that does not accurately represent reality.

I do not doubt that married women spend more hours on household chores than unmarried women. This should be no surprise since married women spend considerably less time in the workforce than unmarried women. Many women have the opportunity to spend more time at home because they have husbands who support them. This is an advantage and choice for women (provided by their husbands labor), not a burden.

The opposite is true for men. Married men spend more time in the workforce than unmarried men. This is known as the marriage premium. Most studies find that the combined hours spent on the job and on household chores is slightly greater for men than it is for women. However, there are no articles implying that "women aren't doing their share." In today's world, political correctness is much more important than reality.

Is it any wonder that more and more men are refusing to marry? Work your butt off supporting a family and then get criticized for not doing enough. Then lose your house, children, and dog in a divorce. Yeah. This marriage thing sounds like a real good deal for men. Where can I sign up.


Dude you sign up when #1 you find the right women

#2 you grow up
#3 you understand that it is your home also and that living in a clean environment is nice and that sometimes doing the cleaning up yourself and not expecting the women in your life to do it is well priceless.

#4 The women you marry is NOT YOUR MOTHER.

More and more men are refusing to marry ... Humm well from my observations the sideways baseball hat and pants hanging down below their waists and well oversized tells me they are still in elementary school, these men still have not grown up. And well with so many being raised without fathers well what would you expect. Oversized little boys.
 
Another male-bashing "women are good, men are bad" article - one that does not accurately represent reality. ...


...Is it any wonder that more and more men are refusing to marry? Work your butt off supporting a family and then get criticized for not doing enough. Then lose your house, children, and dog in a divorce. Yeah. This marriage thing sounds like a real good deal for men. Where can I sign up.

So, tell us how you REALLY feel about the subject.

Some pretty strong statements here. Do you have documented sources to back them up? Don't be surprised if you get challenged on these. Over the top statements seem to stir up a lot of folks. Be prepared to defend your sources.
 
Ha,
Great article - 1 to 2 minutes is "too short" and it is not fair to either party involved.

So now with my 500th post I turn it over to the Minister of Love the GREAT ONE - Mr. Barry White - Can't Get Enough Of Your Love Babe.:angel:

YouTube - Barry White -Can't Get Enough Of Your Love Babe :angel:

GOD BLESS US ALL:angel:

The great Barry White, The Prime Minister of Soul. This was back when male soul singers still enjoyed women, called them Babe, not B*tch.

Nothing like a fine woman and some genuine soul music.

Let's all raise up our voices and do a Chicago Step in praise of real women!

Ha
 
HeMan Woman Haters'

I'm really hoping the majority of women today in their early 20's (I said majority! Not yours specifically, who if not a crazy self-absorbed, partying every night, flirt with everything that moves, never heard of going Dutch kind of girl you should tell me more about immediately:cool:) grow out of whatever funk this is and grow a brain. Maybe it happens after they get a career? I can't say the same of guys my age, because I'd be labeled a traitor. It's like Man Rule #23.

Of the many women I've known, in various forms of relationships, there was only one who paid for our meal. And it was the first time we went out to eat together. To me it spoke less about money and more about...I don't know what, but I was amazed and humbled. We lived in sin together for a while, and I would clean and vacuum before she got home sometimes, and we would clean together at other times. I'd cook us breakfast, and she'd cook dinner, or tried to cook while I tried to ravage her. She did the laundry sometimes, I did other times (after she showed me how she did hers, which is different from the throw-it-all-in-on-cold that I do), sometimes we did it together. It blew my mind, the quality of the relationship we had. We loved each other to death, and knew that although we were living under the same roof, we didn't give in to the temptation to let the other person adopt the chores. We meaning I, the other person meaning her. :angel:

The only thing she didn't do, and that I liked to do, was wash her car and my motorcycle. She liked to wash the dog and I let her, but I'd go out to watch. It was like a free wet t-shirt contest of one. :D

I have to search the world, looking for that woman-girl. I fear for the quality of women being raised here.
 

Dr. Irwin Goldstein, editor of the Journal of Sexual Medicine, cited a four-week study of 1,500 couples in 2005 that found the median time for sexual intercourse was 7.3 minutes. (Women were armed with stopwatches.)

That's a confident man who'll let his SO arm the stopwatch. I wonder how many guys suffered from performance anxiety? :eek:

A really cocky guy would have bought an extra battery. ;)
 
Is it any wonder that more and more men are refusing to marry? Work your butt off supporting a family and then get criticized for not doing enough. Then lose your house, children, and dog in a divorce. Yeah. This marriage thing sounds like a real good deal for men. Where can I sign up.

Yeah, I've lost the house and dogs in a divorce (no kids). I rolled the dice and lost the bet on that one and I knew it was a gamble going in. Everything in life is a gamble, unless you're going to stay home and hide in the closet. But it's one of life's risks that I chose to take. But I learned from it. Wife #1 left when I refused to take out a loan for a trip when we were already flat broke, implying that she meant it when she said she wanted someone who "made enough money to keep me in the style to which I want to become accustomed". It was more complicated that that of course, but that was the bottom line.

Without that experience I would not appreciate wife #2 as much as I do - next July will be 20 years of wedded bliss. She doesn't care about lavish spending, taking high-end trips, or what's on sale this week. She's a wonderful, gentle, caring person and in a lot of ways I wish I could be more like her, but I can't because that's not me. But what I can do is encourage her and offer what support to her that I can. She didn't have a comfy pension coming so when I retired I took the spousal benefit option and took a heavy hit on income because she's 6 years younger than me. That's okay, because almost 20 years ago I looked her straight in the eye and made a bunch of promises both "expressed and implied" as the lawyers would say.

And when I look at her I still see the girl in the wedding dress. Sign me up, dude.
 
Yeah, I've lost the house and dogs in a divorce (no kids). I rolled the dice and lost the bet on that one and I knew it was a gamble going in. Everything in life is a gamble, unless you're going to stay home and hide in the closet. But it's one of life's risks that I chose to take. But I learned from it. Wife #1 left when I refused to take out a loan for a trip when we were already flat broke, implying that she meant it when she said she wanted someone who "made enough money to keep me in the style to which I want to become accustomed". It was more complicated that that of course, but that was the bottom line.

Without that experience I would not appreciate wife #2 as much as I do - next July will be 20 years of wedded bliss. She doesn't care about lavish spending, taking high-end trips, or what's on sale this week. She's a wonderful, gentle, caring person and in a lot of ways I wish I could be more like her, but I can't because that's not me. But what I can do is encourage her and offer what support to her that I can. She didn't have a comfy pension coming so when I retired I took the spousal benefit option and took a heavy hit on income because she's 6 years younger than me. That's okay, because almost 20 years ago I looked her straight in the eye and made a bunch of promises both "expressed and implied" as the lawyers would say.

And when I look at her I still see the girl in the wedding dress. Sign me up, dude.
Aw!!! That is so sweet!!! My best to both of you and congratulations on finding such a wonderful relationship. :D
 
So, tell us how you REALLY feel about the subject.

Some pretty strong statements here. Do you have documented sources to back them up? Don't be surprised if you get challenged on these. Over the top statements seem to stir up a lot of folks. Be prepared to defend your sources.

I'm not Shawn, but I can identify somewhat with his narrative (although I don't personally feel the level of bitterness I sense from Shawn's words).

A paper I found online, authored by a professor at Stanford University, points out that approximately 2/3 of divorces are initiated by women. If one combines this statistic with the popularly assumed statistic that 50% of marriages end in divorce, there is about a 1 in 3 chance that a man marrying today will have his wife divorce him. Not very good odds.

Here's the paper, which is interesting reading: http://paa2005.princeton.edu/download.aspx?submissionId=51210

2Cor521
 
[/U]Years ago when we first got married my parents would call once in a while and say they were going to stop by in a little while. :eek: OMG, we had just 25 minutes to get the place shipshape. I was usually putting the vacuum in the closet when the doorbell rang. :p

Ha....that happened during our entire 20 year marriage!! (still does happen once in a while :eek:)
 
Dw has a new theory she learned at work from other women - most of house can be slightly messy when you're not expecting guests - but the kitchen has to be clean all the time in case someone shows up unexpectedly.
 
I'm not Shawn, but I can identify somewhat with his narrative (although I don't personally feel the level of bitterness I sense from Shawn's words).

A paper I found online, authored by a professor at Stanford University, points out that approximately 2/3 of divorces are initiated by women. If one combines this statistic with the popularly assumed statistic that 50% of marriages end in divorce, there is about a 1 in 3 chance that a man marrying today will have his wife divorce him. Not very good odds.

Here's the paper, which is interesting reading: http://paa2005.princeton.edu/download.aspx?submissionId=51210

2Cor521

I've never been married and do not have children so it's not a question of being bitter, at least with respect to marriage. However, I have seen the impact of broken families on others and on society.

But I am bitter about gender double standards and about how men are perceived. Many men feel this way, although most do not voice their concerns out of fear of being labeled with various derogatory names. This is one reason why women often take leading roles in the fathers movement and why half of authors on mens issues are women. Fortunately, this is beginning to change and more and more men (and women who love men) are speaking out.

You are correct. As most people know, about 50% of marriages end in divorce. What most people don't know is that 70% of divorces are initiated by women. What even fewer people know is that the primary reasons women give for initiating divorce are not substantial causes such as adultery, abuse, or desertion, but "fluff" reasons such as "we grew apart" or "we fell out of love" (for example, you can check out research by Sanford Braver and others).

But it doesn't matter what the research says because men will be blamed. If a man initiates divorce, the man will be blamed. If the woman initiates divorce, the man will be blamed. Or in case of household chores (the topic of this thread), if men spend 13 hours a week more than women on the job and women spend 10 hours a week more than men on housework, men will be criticized for not doing their share.
 
So now can I go asking for grant money to see if women are more attracted to tall guys with a full head of hair than they are to short, balding guys like me?
 
#3 you understand that it is your home also and that living in a clean environment is nice and that sometimes doing the cleaning up yourself and not expecting the women in your life to do it is well priceless.

#4 The women you marry is NOT YOUR MOTHER.

I'll make a deal with you on numbers #3 and #4. When women start pulling their share in the workforce then men will start pulling their share at home. The man you marry is NOT YOUR FATHER, do not expect him to financially support you. You understand that it takes money to run a household and money doesn't grow on trees. For most people, this means hard work in boring and stressful jobs. Men face the brunt of this labor, which is one reason 93% of workplace fatalities are men. Since men spend 13 hours a week more than women in the workforce, it is perfectly reasonable to expect women to spend more time cleaning up the house.
 
I would never bash the men of today . I think they do a great job . I see my SO's sons and my son in law and they all really help with the chores and the child care . Years ago it was this is a woman's job and this is a man's job and then they told us women we had to have careers or we were not fulfilled . So we tried to do it all household chores,child care ,work and be sexy . Well we were exhausted and some of the men were still sticking with the I do the outside work and watch football attitude and women rebeled ( mostly by divorce ) and the guys wised up and realized maybe they had to help with some non traditional guy chores(diapering ,cooking , dishes , vacuuming noticeI did not say toilet cleaning because everybody knows that is strictly a women's job ) and after the guys started helping out everybody lived happily ever after and only divorced for money or infidelity or they were not fulfilled in the marriage .
 
There are also men out there who think, that because their income level it is substantial, that that is all they need to provide. "I'll make the $$$, you stay home & take care of life at home, spend my money - that I earned, and we will live happily ever after" WHAT:confused:!!! I think not!

There are women out there looking for this type of pansy - the one I described does not rate me in their life. (I really do not care if he does or does not do the dishes!)

As for the women filing for divorce...well, many men would never get around to it - despite all the moaning and groaning, etc. about how bad their wife is, how the affair will be ending soon, it was a one time thing, booze more important than the family, etc. Point made - man is so miserable and wants out, but does nothing.

Women file just to get the damn thing going.
 
I've never been married and do not have children so it's not a question of being bitter, at least with respect to marriage. However, I have seen the impact of broken families on others and on society.

Fair enough. I agree with you that there is an impact on families and society. After a fair amount of reflection, it seems to me that right now marriage is not really a good deal for men or women, and I think this is unfortunate and ought to change. I also wonder if, because 70% of women initiate divorce, the divorce laws are more favorable towards them. This may not be a valid syllogism.

But I am bitter about gender double standards and about how men are perceived. Many men feel this way, although most do not voice their concerns out of fear of being labeled with various derogatory names. This is one reason why women often take leading roles in the fathers movement and why half of authors on mens issues are women. Fortunately, this is beginning to change and more and more men (and women who love men) are speaking out.

I'm not bitter about them because I can't change them (at least not by myself). But I agree with you for the most part.

You are correct. As most people know, about 50% of marriages end in divorce. What most people don't know is that 70% of divorces are initiated by women. What even fewer people know is that the primary reasons women give for initiating divorce are not substantial causes such as adultery, abuse, or desertion, but "fluff" reasons such as "we grew apart" or "we fell out of love" (for example, you can check out research by Sanford Braver and others).

Such was the case in my marriage and divorce. In my state (Idaho) there are seven reasons to divorce, and the plaintiff must indicate one. The first six are among the serious kind you mention -- adultery, abuse, alcoholism, becoming a felon, etc. The last is "irreconcilable differences". I have been curious what the ratio of the first six to the last one is in filings. I would bet it is something like 90%.

But it doesn't matter what the research says because men will be blamed. If a man initiates divorce, the man will be blamed. If the woman initiates divorce, the man will be blamed. Or in case of household chores (the topic of this thread), if men spend 13 hours a week more than women on the job and women spend 10 hours a week more than men on housework, men will be criticized for not doing their share.

I mowed the lawn, did the taxes, took care of the cars, took care of the bills and accounts, vacuumed, dusted, painted, did laundry, did dishes, helped cook and clean up, changed diapers, burped kids, fed kids, helped with the kids in a million other ways, as well as either go to school and work part time or work full time out of the home during my entire marriage. I bought my wife presents on her birthday, Valentine's Day, our anniversary, and Christmas. I never committed adultery, bounced a check, became an alcoholic, committed a felony, lost my job, hit or yelled at my wife or my children.

Yet still I am divorced. And quite frankly, I don't really care who she blames and who I blame for our divorce, because we are divorced regardless of blame. I would rather see the institution of marriage strengthened in a way that it is more attractive to both men and women to stay rather than leave. If this can be done in such a way that the truly awful marriages that should be broken up can still be exited, all the better.

2Cor521
 
Yet still I am divorced. And quite frankly, I don't really care who she blames and who I blame for our divorce, because we are divorced regardless of blame. I would rather see the institution of marriage strengthened in a way that it is more attractive to both men and women to stay rather than leave. If this can be done in such a way that the truly awful marriages that should be broken up can still be exited, all the better.
2Cor521

Anyone who believes that men only get divorced because they deserved it is either a very bad observer of life or has an agenda.

There are a good number of men on this board who are married but have no children. For some of them this was the breaks of the game but apparently many others are married and never had any intention of having children.

This one leaves me shaking my head.

Without the goal of children, how could it be worth it to take on another person who gains so much power over your life?

Hello wedding, good-bye autonomy. At least for the high earning or high net-worth man for whom it quickly becomes an expensive proposition to leave.

I realize that on this board there are more than a few marriages in which this set-up is reversed, so I guess this can cut both ways.

Ha
 
I'll make a deal with you on numbers #3 and #4. When women start pulling their share in the workforce then men will start pulling their share at home. The man you marry is NOT YOUR FATHER, do not expect him to financially support you. You understand that it takes money to run a household and money doesn't grow on trees. For most people, this means hard work in boring and stressful jobs. Men face the brunt of this labor, which is one reason 93% of workplace fatalities are men. Since men spend 13 hours a week more than women in the workforce, it is perfectly reasonable to expect women to spend more time cleaning up the house.

Shawn, My wife worked 20+ years in an ICU as a RN, 12 hour shifts that ended up14 hours some days only to come home and have to do it again in 7 hours.

She worked as hard or harder than I did while I was teaching, coaching and painting houses.

We worked together raising the 2 children during those years. Toilets need cleaning I did it, clothes needed to be washed, I did it, the carpet vacuumed I did it. But guess what if my wife thought that it all needed to be done, she did it. Cooking meals we both did it. If someone was tired the other chipped in.

That is how it is supposed to work. Marriage, marry the right gal if you are a guy and treat her like she should be treated as an equal and as your wonderful lover!

Too many Boys are not thinking. That is just what I said there are too many boys out there. They need to become men and grow up.
 
Shawn, My wife worked 20+ years in an ICU as a RN, 12 hour shifts that ended up14 hours some days only to come home and have to do it again in 7 hours.

She worked as hard or harder than I did while I was teaching, coaching and painting houses.

We worked together raising the 2 children during those years. Toilets need cleaning I did it, clothes needed to be washed, I did it, the carpet vacuumed I did it. But guess what if my wife thought that it all needed to be done, she did it. Cooking meals we both did it. If someone was tired the other chipped in.

That is how it is supposed to work. Marriage, marry the right gal if you are a guy and treat her like she should be treated as an equal and as your wonderful lover!

Too many Boys are not thinking. That is just what I said there are too many boys out there. They need to become men and grow up.

The times they are a'changing. Every so often, you have to renegotiate.
 
There are a good number of men on this board who are married but have no children. For some of them this was the breaks of the game but apparently many others are married and never had any intention of having children.

This one leaves me shaking my head.

Without the goal of children, how could it be worth it to take on another person who gains so much power over your life?

Hello wedding, good-bye autonomy. At least for the high earning or high net-worth man for whom it quickly becomes an expensive proposition to leave.

Ha

I can speak only from my own experience. I have been married three times. Marriage one resulted in two children and a lousy marriage.

Marriage two began with no intention nor means to have kids. It ended in the death of my DW.

Marriage three began at age 52 for both of us...obviously no kids were wanted in this relationship...we each had ones from previous relationships.

So, why marry not once but two more times with no intention of children? For the most basic reason in the world. To share two lives as one for as long as we live. Sure it may sound corny but don't knock if if you haven't tried it. Living alone may suit some but not everyone. I don't fell like I have lost anything...on the contrary, I have gained a partner in life and a person who loves me and wants to be a part of my life. It just doesn't get much better than that.
 
Anyone who believes that men only get divorced because they deserved it is either a very bad observer of life or has an agenda.

There are a good number of men on this board who are married but have no children. For some of them this was the breaks of the game but apparently many others are married and never had any intention of having children.

This one leaves me shaking my head.

Without the goal of children, how could it be worth it to take on another person who gains so much power over your life?

Hello wedding, good-bye autonomy. At least for the high earning or high net-worth man for whom it quickly becomes an expensive proposition to leave.

I realize that on this board there are more than a few marriages in which this set-up is reversed, so I guess this can cut both ways.

Ha

haha,

Sorry, I miss the connection between my post and yours above.

But I will say that I married at age 21 when I was young and naive, and my new bride was the daughter of a pastor who had been faithfully married to his wife for decades. I simplistically figured that whatever came we could work through it, and if there was anyone I could trust to not give up on me, it would be her. We said the whole "for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health" bit in our vows, presided over by her father in a church with 400 people watching. And later that afternoon we signed a piece of paper and paid $28 to the State of Idaho to make it official official.

We didn't specifically have the goal of children when we married, but we ended up getting pregnant five times and having three children born. The delta of 2 there might have contributed to her unhappiness and thus a push towards leaving as per the study I cited previously. Again, regardless of blame, because in both cases there was nothing either of us could have done to prevent the outcome.

Now, at the cynical, ripe, and wealthier old age of nearly 39, I can understand your comments on leaving being an expensive proposition. I'm not looking now, and I have no plans for the near future, but still, any future Mrs. 2Cor521 will have some nearly impossibly high hurdles to overcome. I am a risk-averse individual. Can anyone give me a 100% test to make sure that any future candidate won't leave? I thought not...

2Cor521
 

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