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Old 04-08-2008, 01:48 PM   #61
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For the rest of us, breakups are heartbreaking. What is even worse is what two relatively decent people will say to one another and do to one another in a divorce.
That's the issue that is really sad, the resources that are wasted on revenge.

I do have to give my ex credit for being reasonable about the divorce once the decision had been made. Ours was one of the more amicable divorces I've ever heard of, but there wasn't anything worth fighting over. No kids, both had jobs with about the same income, bennies, etc. Hearing other's horror stories I was happy to get out of it not owing anybody anything.
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Old 04-08-2008, 07:12 PM   #62
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Ha, it seems to me that a lot of these problems would be solved if marriage was considered to be a religious, not a legal/political arrangement.

I have the greatest respect for those who (unlike me) can keep a marriage going happily for a lifetime.

For the rest of us, breakups are heartbreaking. What is even worse is what two relatively decent people will say to one another and do to one another in a divorce.

If marriage wasn't governed by law, divorce would not be, either, and these unfair divorce (and meritricious cohabitation) settlements would disappear. I am assuming that if there are no divorce settlements, there would also be no meritricious cohabitation settlements by analogy. Divorce lawyers would flock towards welfare, and people would think twice before mingling their money or becoming totally dependent on the other for support. How many people would quit their jobs and go marry and sponge off a sugar daddy, if they realized that the sugar daddy could kick them out into the cold dark night at any moment? Maybe not so many. Marriages would become more meaningful if marriage wasn't governed by law, because people would marry for purely non-monetary reasons.
+ infinitył !

With these misandric laws of today a man has to be very brave (or naive) to marry (or also cohabitate, at least here in Brazil). Because I already don't want to have kids, I can't think of a reason to marry instead of just keep dating forever.
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Old 04-09-2008, 07:50 AM   #63
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So what is next the cohab police ? Say you spend weekends and vacations living together but in your mind you are only dating will they deem you living together and give you a portion of their 401k ? So what is the answer ceilbacy or leave in the middle of the night before the cohab police catch you ?
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Old 04-09-2008, 10:35 AM   #64
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So what is next the cohab police ? Say you spend weekends and vacations living together but in your mind you are only dating will they deem you living together and give you a portion of their 401k ? So what is the answer ceilbacy or leave in the middle of the night before the cohab police catch you ?
The cohab police will be your former lover and his/her lawyer. This state actually has published guidlines that are supposed to be applied by a judge if the extortion doesn't work and a case goes to trial.

I think a fundamental principle is that if it was good for you, you are screwed.

Short dalliances that could not be mistaken for love are likely OK.

Ha
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Old 04-09-2008, 02:08 PM   #65
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The cohab police will be your former lover and his/her lawyer. This state actually has published guidlines that are supposed to be applied by a judge if the extortion doesn't work and a case goes to trial.

I think a fundamental principle is that if it was good for you, you are screwed.

Short dalliances that could not be mistaken for love are likely OK.

Ha

This is what's already happening in Brazil since 2002. We have a lot of men that force women to sign a "contract of dating" excluding any possibility of "meretriciously cohabiting" between them. Funny and frightening at the same time.
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Old 04-09-2008, 02:48 PM   #66
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This is what's already happening in Brazil since 2002. We have a lot of men that force women to sign a "contract of dating" excluding any possibility of "meretriciously cohabiting" between them. Funny and frightening at the same time.

Do the women also whip out these contracts ?
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Old 04-09-2008, 04:57 PM   #67
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Do the women also whip out these contracts ?
You bet they don't like it at all, as they feel that men see them as gold-diggers. The problem is that many times this is true :/ . I also think that these "contracts" are absolutely illegal, so we men are screwed anyway if we go live with a girl and then she suddenly wants 50% of your assets + alimony.
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Old 04-09-2008, 05:23 PM   #68
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You bet they don't like it at all, as they feel that men see them as gold-diggers. The problem is that many times this is true :/ . I also think that these "contracts" are absolutely illegal, so we men are screwed anyway if we go live with a girl and then she suddenly wants 50% of your assets + alimony.
Do they get alimony even if they were not married to the poor devil?

As for the 50% of the poor devil's assets are they counted from before the co-living or does the 50% count after they started co-living?

You poor devils in Brazil have it much worse than us poor devils in Texas.

It's all about the money.



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Old 04-09-2008, 06:05 PM   #69
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My husband does a lot of housework (far more than I at the moment) and I think most younger men pull their weight in a relationship (don't know about you old foogies). My generation tends to split it up more based on who has the free time and who likes it more (which explains why I do our budget and the retirement projections, he hates math).

As to the cohabitation and/or marriage fear, why do that with someone you don't trust? Don't get me wrong, I understand people can change and that things happen, but I am always amazed at how quick people are to move in together or get married. Whatever happened to taking the time to get to know someone?

At one point in my marriage I was the sugar momma (my husband despised that) and soon my husband will be the sugar daddy of the relationship (you should see him hop around in glee at that thought), but we both came with nothing and would have far less if we had stayed single than what we have now and will have in the future.

For those who are FI, I can definitely understand not wanting to marry someone who sees you as their retirement plan but caring more for your money than for you SO is a quick way to stay alone. Oh, and I am a big fan of prenups (those of you with money should have one before marriage) but I don't think you should be worrying about money to the point that you close your mind to relationships of any kind. Shouldn't you see what kind of women you fall in love with first?
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Old 04-09-2008, 06:53 PM   #70
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Do they get alimony even if they were not married to the poor devil?

As for the 50% of the poor devil's assets are they counted from before the co-living or does the 50% count after they started co-living?

You poor devils in Brazil have it much worse than us poor devils in Texas.

Yes, this "meretricious cohabitation" is basically equal to marriage. You have almost the same "benefits". In fact, sometimes you don't even have to cohabitate with the girl, you just have to show to the society that you have the intention to form a family with her. How sick is that?


Thankfully, the assets are counted after they "showed the intention to form a family".


Still, men here have to be very careful when in a relationship, or they can end sued into oblivion because of our laws.
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Old 04-09-2008, 08:16 PM   #71
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Talk all you people want. Bottom line many men are still just boyz. There needs to be a whole lot of growing up and taking responsibility.

It is your home also, so why in the world would you expect the women you LOVE to do what your mother Might have done??

It makes no sense.
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Old 04-09-2008, 08:31 PM   #72
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Talk all you people want. Bottom line many men are still just boyz. There needs to be a whole lot of growing up and taking responsibility.

It is your home also, so why in the world would you expect the women you LOVE to do what your mother Might have done??

It makes no sense.
Just because you cant clean up after yourself. Dont lump the whole gender into your cesspool of naughtiness. Dirty dirty newguy
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Old 04-12-2008, 07:20 PM   #73
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Just because you cant clean up after yourself. Dont lump the whole gender into your cesspool of naughtiness. Dirty dirty newguy
Hey, Hey, Hey, there is nothing wrong with being dirty some of my best friends, I mean meals have come from Pigs in Mud.



I am sure that you would not deny a poor devil like me the pleasures of eating some porkchops, bacon. pigs feet and pork skins.

I used to know a pig farmer and one of his famous quotes was "Hey you can take a man's wife but do not ever violate one of his pigs."

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Old 04-12-2008, 07:41 PM   #74
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Hey, Hey, Hey, there is nothing wrong with being dirty some of my best friends, I mean meals have come from Pigs in Mud.



I am sure that you would not deny a poor devil like me the pleasures of eating some porkchops, bacon. pigs feet and pork skins.

I used to know a pig farmer and one of his famous quotes was "Hey you can take a man's wife but do not ever violate one of his pigs."

GOD BLESS US ALL
Hey, those are French pigs.

Who else on the board eats pork rinds? Wags does, I do, I think Waltxx does- sign on all you pork-rind eaters!

Ha
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Old 04-12-2008, 07:57 PM   #75
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Hey, those are French pigs.

Who else on the board eats pork rinds? Wags does, I do, I think Waltxx does- sign on all you pork-rind eaters!

Ha
I do when there is nothing else to snack on !
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Old 04-13-2008, 04:02 AM   #76
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More and more young men (and older men) are coming to the conclusion that there is little advantage to marriage, especially considering the high risks. They see no point in working their butts off, being criticized for the sacrifices that they make, and then losing it all in a divorce. This is a very mature and logical decision. And it's not confined to the United States. It's a phenomena throughout the west.
Shawn, there also seems to be more and more young women who see little advantage to marriage. My two daughters, for instance, both feel that if they can't find someone who adds something positive to their lives, then why marry. They have happy lives and don't see the point of marrying someone who wants a mommy, or a slave. They are beautiful, educated, successful women who don't need a man to support them and don't want to marry unless they find someone who is equal (ie not a loser), amiable, fun, decent, and who has the same values.

As for older women, I read somewhere that far more divorced and widowed women have no interest in remarrying compared to divorced and widowed men. I really think the majority of older men are looking for a new wife to take care of them and it seems that older women may not want to sign up for that again.

Of course, that's not to say that there aren't many wonderful men out there who are happy to do their part. My dh is one of them. We've been married for 34 years and I just hope we have as many years ahead of us. I think that when two people really care about each other, then they don't use the other person. Instead they try to help the other one as much as possible and they take care of each other. So, then the work load is shared and more or less equal and then no one is left feeling burdened and resentful.

As for the high risks you mention, both men and women are taking a chance when they marry. Not just that it will end in divorce, but there are other risks. For instance, more women are victims of abuse then men. I think that if couples would have longer engagements and seek pre-marital counseling to make sure that their values are aligned, etc. then there would probably be fewer divorces. Paying attention to warning signs that you're with a nut, loser, abuser, user, etc. before you marry would also help both men and women avoid an ill-fated marriage.
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Old 04-13-2008, 10:36 AM   #77
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As for older women, I read somewhere that far more divorced and widowed women have no interest in remarrying compared to divorced and widowed men. I really think the majority of older men are looking for a new wife to take care of them and it seems that older women may not want to sign up for that again.

Of course, that's not to say that there aren't many wonderful men out there who are happy to do their part. My dh is one of them. We've been married for 34 years and I just hope we have as many years ahead of us. I think that when two people really care about each other, then they don't use the other person. Instead they try to help the other one as much as possible and they take care of each other. So, then the work load is shared and more or less equal and then no one is left feeling burdened and resentful.
Wow, that's really cynical to think that older men are looking for someone to take care of them. The majority can stand on their own, thank you very much.

I know several women who say they will never remarry. One gave the example of a friend of hers, who remarried at 60 and then the guy had a stroke six months later, was bedridden, and lasted another five years. That's one of the risks one takes when making that commitment. People of any age may develop health issues.

The "gold standard" of marital commitment to me is a guy I worked with for 12 years. He married a wonderful woman and everything was fine for about five years, then she came down with MS, and it took eighteen years for that disease to kill her. All the time I knew her she was in a wheel chair or one of those motorized scooters. The last two years of her life she was in bed, and he stayed with her, fed her, changed her diapers, the whole nine yards. Five years after she died, just last month, he remarried. That guy has faith in the future!

I suppose it depends on how willing one is to take that risk, and one's own personal values, and what the other person can add to your own life. From a financial standpoint I am much the worse off for marrying DW. But every day I get to kiss an angel good morning. Hard to put a price tag on that.

The whole male/female relationship seems somewhat tainted by the way society is structured. In 1975 I was in my '20s, and I had a job virtually immune to layoffs/downsizing, an outstanding pension plan, and many of the people I worked with were very much aware that they were targets of females looking for a meal ticket. One of them came after me and I wasn't having any of that!

So it works both ways.
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Old 04-14-2008, 12:56 AM   #78
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I suppose it depends on how willing one is to take that risk, and one's own personal values, and what the other person can add to your own life. From a financial standpoint I am much the worse off for marrying DW. But every day I get to kiss an angel good morning. Hard to put a price tag on that.
Walt34 since you kiss an angel good morning here you go with the GREAT Mr. Charlie Pride - Kiss an Angel Good Mornin'



The song is pure HEAVEN.

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Old 04-15-2008, 08:47 AM   #79
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Just because you cant clean up after yourself. Dont lump the whole gender into your cesspool of naughtiness. Dirty dirty newguy
How about a little Hank Williams Jr as us poor love sick devils drown in a cesspool of naughtiness?



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Sloppy Drunks Need Loving Too!
Old 05-05-2008, 10:07 AM   #80
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Sloppy Drunks Need Loving Too!

Slobby or Sloppy? Poor she devil.



It is true about what the GREAT Mickey Gilley sings "All the Women do get prettier at closing time."

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