The Amazon judge and jury

[Amethyst]

A rather long shot, but the post about Twitter-shaming brought it to mind: Does your local TV station have a consumer advocate? For instance: 7 On Your Side | Consumer Reports | ABC7 KGO-TV | abc7news.com
Might they possibly be interested in going to bat for you?
Amazon is so big and pervasive, you can't be their only victim. It sounds like a public service story in the making.

 

[MuirWannabe]

So there is some other account that is tangled up with your ID possibly. They suspect you may have done an end run to try to access via this account possibly (but very unclear).

Are there any obvious security issues with your accessing Amazon? Things like a computer that is not up to date, does not have good virus protection, is sometimes downloaded with questionable software, etc? What about your account password, is it a strong one? Is your account set up with 2 factor authentication should someone login from another computer? What about your phone, is it secure with a password and the cell service has a good password on your account so it cannot be hijacked?

Just some thoughts as security is a tough issue for most of us. Not blaming you for anything as I'm sure you are a victim of something here. So the question is where did the victimization begin.

My wife and I always ordered using our iPads. I think and hope they are reasonably secure. The password was decent but not outstanding. We did not use 2FA. That was perhaps very stupid on our part. I use it with all my financial logins. Hadn’t checked or thought about it with Amazon.

I don’t know. Maybe we’ve been hacked, but other than this thing with Amazon I’ve seen no other problems.

 

[ivinsfan]

No apology necessary. My last name is not very common. I scrubbed my Credit Karma report pretty closely and saw nothing that shouldn’t be there. That was 2 days ago. I’m going to check again now.

I agree that’s what they seem to be saying. I’m linked with some apparently very bad account. But why, what, how, etc? No idea. And why wouldn’t they give me a chance to talk about my account and to resolve whatever their concerns are?

I guess because they don't need your business, I understand completely clamping down on suspected fraud in sellers' account but a household account of long standing.....It's their attitude that they can do no wrong and owe a faithful customer nothing that's infuriating to me and it should be to everyone that does business with them.

 

[MuirWannabe]

A rather long shot, but the post about Twitter-shaming brought it to mind: Does your local TV station have a consumer advocate? For instance: 7 On Your Side | Consumer Reports | ABC7 KGO-TV | abc7news.com
Might they possibly be interested in going to bat for you?
Amazon is so big and pervasive, you can't be their only victim. It sounds like a public service story in the making.

I live in the Dallas area. So yes, we have such reporters on tv. It’s just not my thing. Don’t want to be on tv. But I appreciate the suggestion.

 

[Lsbcal]

I guess because they don't need your business, I understand completely clamping down on suspected fraud in sellers' account but a household account of long standing.....It's their attitude that they can do no wrong and owe a faithful customer nothing that's infuriating to me and it should be to everyone that does business with them.

I kind of agree with you but maybe we are blaming Amazon AI, who knows if it's even a human.

While Muir was dealing with Amazon, it was perhaps only with one individual (or AI agent) there who perhaps made a bad judgement call. So if the right path can be found through such a large organization, maybe this decision can be revised.

 

[Lsbcal]

My wife and I always ordered using our iPads. I think and hope they are reasonably secure. The password was decent but not outstanding. We did not use 2FA. That was perhaps very stupid on our part. I use it with all my financial logins. Hadn’t checked or thought about it with Amazon.

I don’t know. Maybe we’ve been hacked, but other than this thing with Amazon I’ve seen no other problems.

We use 2FA with Amazon only for when someone is logging on from another system. So it gets tested if I am logging on from a new device the first time even from home.

If you did not have this kind of 2FA set, then could someone have guessed your password and started messing with the account details? Might not show up as a bogus purchase and I'm just guessing here as to how bad things are done to accounts.

 

[ocean view]

I live in the Dallas area. So yes, we have such reporters on tv. It’s just not my thing. Don’t want to be on tv. But I appreciate the suggestion.

In my area, the consumer reporters help many more folks than those that make it to the nightly newscast...

 

[GrayHare]

Small claims court isn't a trial and T and C of Amazon say any claim other then a small claims court issue will be settle by arbitration.

OP doesn't care since he doesn't want a trial, he wants someone to listen and try to account for what happened and correct the error. I've sued in similar situations regardless of an arbitration or similar clause and the other party has quickly corrected the problem every time. Big companies see countless complaints, so they pay attention only to the forceful ones.

 

[JoeWras]

You got me rethinking my gift card balance.


I've converted various awards and refunds to gift cards. For example, when I re-upped my TV last year, they sent a debit cards with a balance. I promptly converted it to an Amazon gift card and have a balance.


I don't think I'm going to do that anymore after reading this.

 

[CRLLS]

It would appear to this layman that if Amazon has terminated your account, then you are no longer bound to any "terms of agreement" that they may have. You should be able to file a lawsuit in any court you chose without fear of forced arbitration or any other "remedy" that they may dictate.


Sorry to hear your issues.

 

[Dawg52]

I would simply write them a go to hell letter and move on. I wouldn't care to do business with anyone who would not listen to my response. Obviously the letter will be canned by some grunt but I would feel better.

 

[Jerry1]

Sorry, can’t be much help, but if they have an arbitration clause in their terms and conditions, why not try that? Small claims court may work, but my unlicensed legal understanding is that courts require you to follow the process that is provided for in your contract.

Personally, I’d try the physical letter approach first. You might want to consider including a copy of the credit card statement for the card you do have through them and on file with them for payments to show them you are who you are. Block out all but the last for digits and send it certified.

 

[spncity]

Personally, I’d try the physical letter approach first. You might want to consider including a copy of the credit card statement for the card you do have through them and on file with them for payments to show them you are who you are. Block out all but the last for digits and send it certified.

I'd try the letter to Jeff Bezos first, maybe including the above.

I can understand not wanting to be on TV. It would be an interesting NYT article if you could get a reporter interested. Or maybe better - Washington Post!

 

[mamadogmamacat]

Wow, very sorry this happened to you.

A couple ideas come to mind.

One has already been mentioned. That is, a consumer advocate. As has been said, they do help more people than just those on TV. Your case probably would not have as much public interest as say anything involving children or dogs, so probably would not be one they would put on TV anyway. But they may help. If a local one concerns you, I believe Clark Howard helps folks on a national level, not just the metro Atlanta area. So, you could google to get his website.

Another idea not yet mentioned would be to call one of your representatives. I would start with a state rep, not congressional. They like to, if they have any smart at all, develop a loyal voter base, and helping you with this, especially if they are successful, would I imagine be something you would tell other local voters about.

 

[Totoro]

“We seek to be Earth’s most customer-centric company for four primary customer sets: consumers, sellers, enterprises, and content creators.”

Amazon mission statement. Lately, I think they've given up on that.

It depends a bit, but I've had success in resolving issues by referring to a company mission or values.

 

[Amethyst]

Interesting. My first thought was, "Wow, to treat a customer that way, they are really b******s! I'm glad I never fell for that Prime membership they are always pushing." We don't buy that much from Amazon. Walmart.com often has better prices for everyday things, and our clothes and shoes come from other sites.

You got me rethinking my gift card balance.


I've converted various awards and refunds to gift cards. For example, when I re-upped my TV last year, they sent a debit cards with a balance. I promptly converted it to an Amazon gift card and have a balance.


I don't think I'm going to do that anymore after reading this.

 

[braumeister]

They were much easier to deal with back when they were known as the Acme company. As I remember it, a certain Wile E. Coyote was able to easily order just about anything from them and receive it quickly.


Seriously, this is a terrible problem and I think it would be perfect for your local media consumer advocate to tackle.

 

[Hopeful]

Any chance you were using a VPN? Not sure that would matter, but is one thing that I could think of were your IP address could be associated with another account.

 

[MuirWannabe]

Any chance you were using a VPN? Not sure that would matter, but is one thing that I could think of were your IP address could be associated with another account.

No, not VPN.

 

[cathy63]

I read Chris Elliott's newspaper column and website, and consumer advocates generally don't take Amazon cases because Amazon ignores them. At best, they might respond by informing the advocate that they can't talk about any account with a 3rd party. A very small number of people have had some luck with their cases by using the executive contacts other than Jeff Bezos on this list: Amazon customer service contacts

Once your account has been associated with credit card fraud, there is, unfortunately, very little that you can do to prove to Amazon that you don't know the fraudster. It may be that you ordered something on your tablet while at a location that was used by the fraudster; or you ordered something to be delivered to an address where someone else committed fraud; or someone who stole a credit card used it to have merchandise shipped to your address while you were away.

Another option would be to file a complaint for theft of the $170 with your state's and Washington state's Attorneys General. If enough complaints pile up, they might get eventually some action.

 

[MuirWannabe]

Wow. Seems nobody could get Amazon to listen.

I’m sure glad Amazon doesn’t run our criminal justice system. You’re guilty of a crime. We can’t tell you what it is. You can’t face your accusers. You can’t even discuss it with anyone. And we are giving you the death penalty. But we live to serve.

 

[MuirWannabe]

I’ve been thinking about my usage and dependence on the big tech companies. The FAANG companies if you will.

What if they ever collaborated with each other to share a ‘bad’ customers list? If you get on ones bad list, then suddenly you’re rejected from all of them. I’m sure this is just a thought exercise. Although there is cross pollination between these tech giants, I doubt they’d ever collaborate to that level.

I’m obviously going to have to live without Amazon now. I’m still wrapping my head around that. My life will be less convenient but I’ll adjust.

If Facebook kicked me out that would also just be an inconvenience. Id lose tracking ability and information related to family and some key hobby groups (running/hiking) that would hurt. But I’d adjust.

If Apple kicked me out that would hurt. I guess my iPhone/iPad devices couldn’t be supported and I can’t imagine not having those in this day and age.

I’d sure miss Netflix too. I’m already missing Amazon Prime video. But I’d adjust.

Getting kicked out of Google? Can they even do that? [emoji15]

Anyway, paranoia sets in.

 

[ERD50]

This stinks.


I have no real suggestions beyond what has been posted, but based on this, I am going to work a little harder to get into the habit of using Walmart or other online merchants. Amazon is pretty much my default 'go to', but I do check from time to time, and sometimes find better deals elsewhere.



I don't do Prime, I always am able to get free shipping by adding some 'staples' from my wish-list if needed to hit the $25 point. I rarely need something in 2-3 days versus 3-7 days that I normally get. Seeing that they didn't even refund the balance of the Prime fee is really something. And what about any reward balance you might have?



Hmm, probably way more effort than it is worth, but since it seems like there is identity theft involved, maybe talk to local law enforcement, with the angle that Amazon is withholding evidence from you? Might be interesting if they were sympathetic, and wanted to give Amazon some grief. They are probably Amazon customers too?



-ERD50

edit/add: I just installed a new OS on my computer "Xubuntu 18.04", and need to reset this double space issue in FireFox:

got to about:config , search for: editor.use_div_for_default_newlines , set to false

 

[Texas Proud]

I wonder what people who talk about going to court or some other legal remedy are thinking... laws are different between the states...



When I talked to the Texas Attorney General's office (well, I think it was this agency) I was told that a business can refuse to do business with you as long as they are not breaking any law.... now, I was asking about restaurant specifically, but I think it is for any business...


This might be Texas specific as I do remember when reading about the Colorado cake/gay couple case that there is a law in Colorado that requires if a business is open it must serve everybody....

 

[ERD50]

I wonder what people who talk about going to court or some other legal remedy are thinking... laws are different between the states...


When I talked to the Texas Attorney General's office (well, I think it was this agency) I was told that a business can refuse to do business with you as long as they are not breaking any law.... ....

Yes, but they are also holding $170 of his money. That part seems different than merely saying they won't do future business with you.

Can you imaging going into a B&M business, paying for something large that requires you to drive your car around to their dock, and when you get there they say "Sorry, we canceled your account while you were driving up. We are keeping your money, but won't give you the product you paid for. Can't tell you any more."?

-ERD50