ladelfina
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2005
- Messages
- 2,713
Spinoff from a post by samclem on the "Depression" thread, talking about energy efficiency (consumption/GDP) and how much room Americans have to cut back.
I've been realizing that most traditional foods here don't require a lot of energy for pre-domestic preparation and processing. They are either consumed fresh or cooked from fresh on the spot, or they are preserved in traditional (even though mostly now industrialized) ways, like cheese, prosciutto, and dried sausages. The only real staples we use that require large-scale industrial growing, processing and/or packaging are few:
-flour
-salt
-canned fish
-dried beans/lentils, etc.
-coffee
I can't think of any others except maybe dairy products, though dairy has pretty regional markets.
We buy lots of canned tomatoes, but those one could DIY if they had to. With flour, you can also make pasta, but packaged pasta is convenient.
I was also going to add oil, wine, and vinegar, but while those are produced on an industrial scale, they are still also actively produced locally.
In the supermarkets, of course you can find the usual suspects, from crappy industrial ice-cream sandwiches to fish sticks to corn flakes, etc. And Italians are making much more use of these convenience foods. But what if we really needed to consume less energy in the food arena?
Here, we still need the energy inputs for growing, but not so much for packaging and maintenance. The more you go to the smaller towns and the traditional shops the more you see this.
Rather than stocking up, people go more frequently to the store and buy just what they need for the next day or two. I still have not gotten into this habit. Buying less food at once means a smaller fridge suffices. Shopping at the local store is a little more expensive, but it also takes gas, time and a car to get to the supermarket.
Initially, I was startled to see eggs sold just sitting out on the counter but, while I do store them in the fridge and they do last longer that way, I've made carbonara at least 1x 2x a week for the past several years with no ill effects. I've heard it's the US industrial washing that makes the eggs more vulnerable to bacterial invasion. (?)
Let's continue.. bread is just sold loose. At our little local store you ask for bread crumbs and the guy goes to the back and grinds them from the store's own stale bread, puts it in a paper cone and folds it over. Could Americans get used to this, or will we always need the tube with the metal bottom, cardboard sides and plastic top with foil/plastic sani-sealer, plus the labeling, marketing, coupons and TV spots?
To cast back into the past, the absolute zenith of zero packaging and processing: my MIL recalls as a girl that a local lady would make the rounds of apartments with a goat, and milk the goat right there for you in your kitchen (you provide the receptacle). Even today you can go to the local wine co-ops and they sometimes have gas pumps so you can pump out wine into containers you bring (they also sell containers for a modest fee).
You get the picture. If I go to the butcher (every town has at least one) I get the meat cut fresh to order and the guy has higher turnover and less refrigeration cost since it's closer to "just in time". The dried hams and sausages are just sitting out and are perfectly fine that way. There aren't vast acres of open coolers, and there's no wasteful styrofoam.
All that extra stuff creates jobs, creates GDP, but is really unnecessary. Are Americans "richer" spending part of their food dollar on it, or could people be more productive at something else?
I know supermarkets may offer lower prices due to scale, but then I wonder how much of their revenue comes from the stocking fees processed food mfr.s pay. The 'straight' food might be a loss-leader to get you to come in and buy Munch-Os. You can't buy Munch-Os at a butcher shop, which is bad for the Munch-O people.
Anyway, in the context of samclem's previsions on cutting back, I just thought how much could really be saved on the food front.
I've been realizing that most traditional foods here don't require a lot of energy for pre-domestic preparation and processing. They are either consumed fresh or cooked from fresh on the spot, or they are preserved in traditional (even though mostly now industrialized) ways, like cheese, prosciutto, and dried sausages. The only real staples we use that require large-scale industrial growing, processing and/or packaging are few:
-flour
-salt
-canned fish
-dried beans/lentils, etc.
-coffee
I can't think of any others except maybe dairy products, though dairy has pretty regional markets.
We buy lots of canned tomatoes, but those one could DIY if they had to. With flour, you can also make pasta, but packaged pasta is convenient.
I was also going to add oil, wine, and vinegar, but while those are produced on an industrial scale, they are still also actively produced locally.
In the supermarkets, of course you can find the usual suspects, from crappy industrial ice-cream sandwiches to fish sticks to corn flakes, etc. And Italians are making much more use of these convenience foods. But what if we really needed to consume less energy in the food arena?
Here, we still need the energy inputs for growing, but not so much for packaging and maintenance. The more you go to the smaller towns and the traditional shops the more you see this.
Rather than stocking up, people go more frequently to the store and buy just what they need for the next day or two. I still have not gotten into this habit. Buying less food at once means a smaller fridge suffices. Shopping at the local store is a little more expensive, but it also takes gas, time and a car to get to the supermarket.
Initially, I was startled to see eggs sold just sitting out on the counter but, while I do store them in the fridge and they do last longer that way, I've made carbonara at least 1x 2x a week for the past several years with no ill effects. I've heard it's the US industrial washing that makes the eggs more vulnerable to bacterial invasion. (?)
Let's continue.. bread is just sold loose. At our little local store you ask for bread crumbs and the guy goes to the back and grinds them from the store's own stale bread, puts it in a paper cone and folds it over. Could Americans get used to this, or will we always need the tube with the metal bottom, cardboard sides and plastic top with foil/plastic sani-sealer, plus the labeling, marketing, coupons and TV spots?
To cast back into the past, the absolute zenith of zero packaging and processing: my MIL recalls as a girl that a local lady would make the rounds of apartments with a goat, and milk the goat right there for you in your kitchen (you provide the receptacle). Even today you can go to the local wine co-ops and they sometimes have gas pumps so you can pump out wine into containers you bring (they also sell containers for a modest fee).
You get the picture. If I go to the butcher (every town has at least one) I get the meat cut fresh to order and the guy has higher turnover and less refrigeration cost since it's closer to "just in time". The dried hams and sausages are just sitting out and are perfectly fine that way. There aren't vast acres of open coolers, and there's no wasteful styrofoam.
All that extra stuff creates jobs, creates GDP, but is really unnecessary. Are Americans "richer" spending part of their food dollar on it, or could people be more productive at something else?
I know supermarkets may offer lower prices due to scale, but then I wonder how much of their revenue comes from the stocking fees processed food mfr.s pay. The 'straight' food might be a loss-leader to get you to come in and buy Munch-Os. You can't buy Munch-Os at a butcher shop, which is bad for the Munch-O people.
Anyway, in the context of samclem's previsions on cutting back, I just thought how much could really be saved on the food front.
? I've never made that in my life--our typical dinners (all made at home) have always been more like what you are describing as "Italian" using whatever we have on hand--tonight we're having quesadillas with smoked paprika, salad greens dressed with balsamic, and watermelon....
![:-\](https://www.early-retirement.org/sk/forums/images/smilies/undecided.gif "Undecided :-\")
