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Old 06-21-2007, 07:39 PM   #41
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i think you will find the prius has a much roomier cabin - the civic is tiny - my friends over 6 ft tall w/ a civic have to put the seat all the way back w/ no room for passengers - not sure if that's an issue for you.

the honda dealer i spoke to said most people don't go for the hybrid civic or accord since the cost-benefit didn't work out by the #'s...

i prefer the look of the prius over the honda...and i do like the pollution/emission reduction as a factor over just mileage...good luck in deciding!

if you get the prius - write a review after a few months in since we may likely be getting one too in the next year or so...thanks in advance!
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Old 06-21-2007, 08:36 PM   #42
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i think you will find the prius has a much roomier cabin - the civic is tiny - my friends over 6 ft tall w/ a civic have to put the seat all the way back w/ no room for passengers - not sure if that's an issue for you.

the honda dealer i spoke to said most people don't go for the hybrid civic or accord since the cost-benefit didn't work out by the #'s...

i prefer the look of the prius over the honda...and i do like the pollution/emission reduction as a factor over just mileage...good luck in deciding!

if you get the prius - write a review after a few months in since we may likely be getting one too in the next year or so...thanks in advance!
Hey Brighteyed - bought the Civic coupe - $7,000 cheaper than Prius and is a low emission car - not as much as the P, but I can't justify the difference based on gas savings of $400 a year and minimal difference in emission reduction...I'm 6'3" and it fits like a glove! - now that the kids are on their own I don't haul people anymore in the back so now I can get something not so practical - I prefer the Civic's look - I couldn't believe it when the toyota sales guy of all people said he didn't care for the Prius' look - but to each their own - that's what makes the world go round and round!

You should wait until the next generation 2009 model comes out supposed to be better mileage and might have solar panels - just read back for most of this thread if you want to learn more about solar
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Old 06-21-2007, 08:50 PM   #43
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4 cyl camry 5 speed you can get for about 18500, gets 34 on the highway 30 in the city lots of room, nice car.
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Old 06-21-2007, 09:23 PM   #44
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One of my tests for buying a car is to set the seat for me at 6 ft then get out and get in the back to see if I have room. The 2006 Civic past with space to spare. My wife and I both like the looks and it fits us fine and we are not small people. Love the two level dash. Just wish they offered the Hybrid option on all the model levels. Seems to me if they really wanted to help the environment they would offer it on lower price models also. I would have paid the premium for hybrid over the middle models price but there wasn't enough things we cared about going to the high end model to justify that increase in price on top of the hybrid option. Still would have been a long pay back, if ever, but you might have broke even at least.

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Old 06-22-2007, 06:21 AM   #45
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Hey D-T, just curious but have you looked at the Toyota Yaris?

2007 Toyota Yaris

BTW, I am going to hit up your NYC deli next weekend. I will send you my review
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Old 06-22-2007, 07:12 AM   #46
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Hey D-T, just curious but have you looked at the Toyota Yaris?

2007 Toyota Yaris

BTW, I am going to hit up your NYC deli next weekend. I will send you my review
Hey wildcat, I did, but it and the Honda FIT were too small for me and the mileage was just marginally better, although they cost a good deal less, if you can find one.

I look forward to it, I could go for a pastrami for breakfast right now...
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Old 06-22-2007, 08:41 AM   #47
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Hey wildcat, I did, but it and the Honda FIT were too small for me and the mileage was just marginally better, although they cost a good deal less, if you can find one.

I look forward to it, I could go for a pastrami for breakfast right now...
So could a 6'2" guy rip out the front seat and drive/fit from the back seat?
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Old 06-22-2007, 02:14 PM   #48
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So could a 6'2" guy rip out the front seat and drive/fit from the back seat?
Yes, it could be done, heck they customize the heck out of Honda cars in my area anyway - probably been done - some of the guys driving in them barely have their eyes above the windows!
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Old 06-22-2007, 03:15 PM   #49
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Used to own a 1978 Honda Civic CVCC Hatch - I've now returned to my roots I guess. First up The 1978 - $3000 60 hp 1488 cc 1600 lbs? 36 mpg city 42 Hwy

followed by the 2007 $17,000 140 hp 1800 cc 2700 lbs 30 mpg 40 mpg

They certainly have changed in 30 years haven't they?
That girl was sooo naughty...





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Old 06-22-2007, 05:01 PM   #50
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They certainly have changed in 30 years haven't they?
That girl was sooo naughty...
I'd say the girls today are even naughtier. That was what you were talking about when you said things have changed, right?
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Old 06-24-2007, 07:25 AM   #51
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I've had good luck with my VW diesel Jetta. I hear Honda will be releasing an Accord diesel in 2009 that should get 40 or 50 mpg.

I can run biodiesel in my Jetta, but have not done so yet. A local gas station has B20 so I may try that.

I think diesels put out more fine particles, but less CO2. But I figure I am getting close to 50 mpg so using less fuel has to be better than driving a gasser getting 30 mpg.
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Old 06-24-2007, 07:30 AM   #52
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I just saw a commercial that Toyota has a hybrid Camry that will be sold this year.
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Old 06-24-2007, 12:06 PM   #53
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I had an interesting conversation with a 40-something tae kwon do parent last night. Retired Air Force sergeant morphed into biker dude: shaved head, goatee, tank tops with buff biceps, his & hers hogs, Harley haberdashery. I wouldn't expect to see his profile in any of Toyota's consumer focus groups.

He said that their new Prius gets better gas mileage than any motorcycle they've ever owned. Now he and his wife squabble over who gets to commute in the Prius and he can see the day coming when he's going to have to buy a second one...
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Old 06-25-2007, 01:31 PM   #54
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Here are some upcoming Hybrids:

Honda Fit Hybrid (5 seat compact)
  • Est. release date: Mid-2007
  • What we know: The Honda Fit subcompact 5-seater is being introduced in the U.S. market in 2007. With a base MSRP of a little under $14,000, the automatic fit gets an EPA estimated 31 city/38 highway at a LEV II smog-forming emissions level. According to a HybridCars.com interview with an industry source, the Fit will be outfitted with the Insight’s hybrid drivetrain (the Insight was discontinued in September 2006) and will be introduced in mid-2007 in hybrid version with an expected mpg in the low-to-mid-50s. More recent reports suggest Honda is focusing more on its next generation hybrid (see below) -- this may either delay or derail a Fit Hybrid.
Chevrolet Tahoe/GMC Yukon (7 seat full-sized SUV)
  • Est. release date: Fall 2007
  • What we know: GM is to introduce first genuine hybrids with Chevrolet Tahoe/GMC Yukon Hybrid. The 2006 conventional Tahoe 2WD gets an estimated 17mpg. GM is saying that its “dual mode” hybrid system, based on the hybrid system used in its hybrid passenger buses, will deliver approximately 25 percent better fuel economy.
Mazda Tribute Hybrid (5 seat compact SUV)
  • Est. release date: Test fleet in 2006 with full production in 2007
  • What we know: Tribute will be based on Ford Escape Hybrid drivetrain. The Department of Transportation’s Fueleconomy.gov website gives the ’06 Tribute Hybrid a combined 31 mpg (33 city, 29 highway) and a SULEV II smog-forming emissions rating in California emissions compliant states and Tier 2, Bin 4 in states under the federal system.
Dodge Durango Hybrid (7 seat full-sized SUV)
  • Est. release date: 2007
  • What we know: Dodge Durango Hybrid will be Daimler/Chrysler’s first genuine hybrid. It will use GM’s “dual-mode” hybrid system now that Daimler-Chrysler has a hybrid technology sharing agreement with General Motors and BMW.
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Old 06-25-2007, 01:32 PM   #55
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Future Hybrids

Lexus LS 600h L (5 seat luxury sedan)
  • Est. release date: April 2007
  • What we know: Lexus will introduce its newest luxury "performance-hybrid" sedan in April 2007. The LS 600h L sedan will be even more muscular than the GS 450h muscle hybrid, boasting the world's first full hybrid V8 powertrain. It combines a 5-liter gasoline direct-injection V8 with large, high-output electric motors and a newly-designed battery pack to deliver more than 330 kW (442 hp) of total system power. At the Paris Auto Show, Toyota predicted fuel consumption at less than 9.5 liters/100km (around 25 mpg).
2008-2010 Saturn Green Line Vue
  • Est. release date: Fall 2008
  • What we know: GM announced at the 2006-2007 Los Angeles Auto Show that, in 2008, they will be releasing a new version of the Green Line Vue that will employ the GM "two-mode" hybrid drivetrain and net a 45 percent improvement in fuel economy over the conventional Vue. Note that in September 2007, GM will be introducing a redesigned Green Line Vue, but it will be using the same conventional technology improvements that are in the current "hollow hybrid" model (see Hollow Hybrids list for current Green Line models). GM also announced they plan to market a plugin version of the Vue, but a production date has yet to be announced.
Toyota Sienna Hybrid (7 seat minivan)
  • Est. release date: 2008-2009
  • What we know: Toyota Sienna Hybrid is likely to be the first hybrid minivan on the market, though its introduction has been continually rumored and postponed. The Sienna Hybrid's drivetrain will likely be based on the smaller Estima minivan currently sold only in Japan. Toyota is unlikely to make the estimated 35mpg Estima available in the U.S. for fear of brand competition with its larger Sienna.
Honda next generation hybrid (5 seat compact)
  • Est. release date: 2009
    What we know: Honda will introduce a new hybrid in 2009 that the company hopes will challenge Toyota’s hybrid market dominance. Honda confirms that the new hybrid will be smaller and cheaper than the current Honda Civic Hybrid and will be an entirely new vehicle, not merely a hybridized version of an existing model (such as the expected Fit Hybrid). Production is expected to be around 200,000 per year and the styling will be akin to the Honda Remix concept vehicle introduced at the 2007 LA Auto Show.
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Old 06-25-2007, 01:33 PM   #56
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Future Hybrids

Toyota Prius Gen. 3 (5 seat midsize)
  • Est release date: 2008
    What we know: The next generation Toyota Prius is going to be significantly redesigned, may be built in the United States, and while Toyota officials have confirmed that the new design will not be a plugin hybrid, a Guardian news article quoted Shinichi Abe, head of Toyota’s hybrid division as saying that the next Prius model will be able to do a nine-mile commute to work without using any petrol or diesel, and rumors persist of a plugin possibility, especially now that GM has announced plans for a plugin Vue (see Saturn Green Line Vue, 2007). Auto Express magazine in the UK reported in December 2006 that Toyota engineers are targeting an mileage rating of 113 mpg (other rumors have it more in the 70-90 mpg range -- the discrepancy may be due to the differences between the Japanese and American fuel economy tests), with improved 0-60 mph acceleration of less than 10 seconds. The internal combustion part of the drive train is reported to be a new turbocharged 1.8L lean burn four cylinder.
Cadillac Escalade Hybrid
  • Est. release date: Spring 2008
  • What we know: Kate Hudson gave the Escalade Hybrid a surprise debut on the Oscar's red carpet in February 2007. Like the Tahoe and Yukon gas-electrics, the Escalade hybrid will be a two-mode hybrid that supplements a 6.0-liter V-8 with power from two electric motors. GM claims the Yukon/Tahoe Hybrids will get a 25 percent fuel economy boost compared with the standard equipped 5.3-liter V-8 engine. The boost over the standard Escalade, which comes with the gas-thirsty 403-hp, 6.2-liter V-8, is likely to be even more significant.
Hyundai Accent/Kia Rio Hybrid (5 seat compact)
  • Est. release date: 2008-2009
  • What we know: Unlike Nissan, this hybrid technology is their own, not borrowed from Toyota. At a November 2005 unveiling at the Guangzhou, China auto show, Hyundai said the engine achieves a 44 percent improvement in fuel economy. The conventional Accent lists at around $10,000, so these cars could be the first hybrids to have a MSRP at significantly under $20k. Although originally slotted to be brought to the U.S. market in late 2006 or early 2007, the increasing value of the Korean won has changed Hyundai's plans, and the launch of this hybrid line in America has now been pushed back until at least the 2009 model year. Kia featured the Rio Hybrid at the 2007 Geneva Auto show, and has given 4,000 Rio Hybrids to the Korean Ministry of the Environment for the largest ever ‘real-world’ testing program in Korea to develop clean and efficient hybrid vehicles.
Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan Hybrid (5 seat sedan)
  • Est. release date: 2008
  • What we know: Much like the Ford Escape/Mercury Mariner Hybrid SUVs, this will be Ford’s practical/premium launch into the hybrid sedan market. The 2006 conventional Fusion and Milan offer both four and six cylinder engines.
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Old 06-25-2007, 01:37 PM   #57
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Future Hybrids
Porsche Cayenne Hybrid (5 seat sedan)
  • Est. release date: 2008-2009
  • What we know: At the 2005 Frankfurt Auto Show, Porsche reps said that their full hybrid system will maintain the performance of the conventional Cayenne while cutting fuel consumption by 15 percent. Sounds rather like a muscle hybrid, but we’ll see.
Porsche Panamera Hybrid (5 seat compact)
  • Est. release date: 2008-2009
  • What we know: Porsche's new four-door hatchback coupe scheduled for launch in 2008 or 2009 will be designed from the start with the option of a hybrid engine. Using similar "muscular" engine technology to the Cayenne SUV, the V10 to V12 engines will be supplied by the Stuttgart- Zuffenhausen plant. 20,000 units a year are expected to be built per year.
Mercedes S-Class Hybrid
  • Est. release date: Early 2008
  • What we know: DaimlerChrysler board member Dr. Thomas Weber stated that Mercedes will bring a mild hybrid version of the S-class sedan to market in 2008. The concept model S350 was unveiled at the 2005 Frankfurt auto show, and sported a V6 engine and lithium-ion battery pack. This "Direct Hybrid" drive, as Mercedes calls it, boasted a 33 percent improvement in fuel economy over a conventional S-class that gets an EPA-estimated combined 20mpg.
VW Touareg Hybrid
  • Est. release date: 2009-2010
  • What we know: It looks as if the new regime at VW, installed in November 2006, has decided to shift to an SUV platform for their first hybrid from the long rumored Jetta. A Touareg Hybrid would likely increase the chances of the rumored development of a Porsche Cayenne Hybrid (see above), given that the two vehicles were developed jointly by Porsche and VW.
Toyota FT-HS Sportscar
  • Est. release date: 2009-2010
  • What we know: At the 2007 Detroit Auto Show, Toyota debuted its hybrid sportscar concept, the FT-HS. The concept is a front-engine, rear-wheel-drive sports car with a projected 0-60-mph acceleration in the 4-second range. A 3.5-liter V6 is coupled with a hybrid system. Toyota says the car would have a "mid-priced market position" and be an "attainable exotic." According to a piece in Automobile magazine, the Japanese carmaker has approved production, with a saleable version ready by 2009 at the earliest.
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Old 06-25-2007, 02:23 PM   #58
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Were planning on getting a Prius in September my husband fiqured that with my Honda Accord (which we are keeping) getting 20 miles to the gallon at 3.00 per gallon for 10000 miles per year it costs $1500.00 per year.

With us getting the Prius and figuring at 45 miles per gallon and at 3.00 per gallon, at 10000 miles per year the cost would be 667 per year.

Were averaging the cost of gas and the mileage it could get better on either car it depends on the way you drive.

If you keep the Prius for a long time you make out pretty good, the only maintenance would be the oil change the battery has a 7 year battery warranty...

From the test drive we took it is pretty comfortable and we think a great little car for around town and if you have a lot of traffic it is even better..the cost is about 24,000...but we keep our cars for 10 years or more...so the numbers add up for us....

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Old 06-25-2007, 02:33 PM   #59
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I have been driving a hybrid for 5 months now (Escape) and the fun factor is hard to quantify. It is especially fun to drive in silent electric mode in parking lots and subdivisions - sort of stealth mode. Also handy when you come home at 3 AM..........
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Old 06-25-2007, 05:58 PM   #60
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  • GM is saying that its “dual mode” hybrid system, based on the hybrid system used in its hybrid passenger buses, will deliver approximately 25 percent better fuel economy.

So that'll be what...4 to 5 MPG?

Shouldnt you be concerned when you're adapting technology from buses for your passenger vehicles?
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