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Independent Living Community questions
Old 10-19-2011, 10:46 AM   #1
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Independent Living Community questions

My parents are looking at an independent living community. They sent me some info on it, and I thought I'd see if anyone here can help translate it. I'll be going back next month to talk with them about it, and will probably tour it with them and ask questions at the place, but figured the more I could understand it now, the better.

There is an entrance fee based on the floor plan. "The entrance fee, along with a supplemental fee for some residences, is a one-time payment refundable upon transfer to another qualified resident." For the unit they are looking at, the charges are as follows:

Entrance Fee
Alone - With Supplemental
$57,780-101,780

Monthly Charge
Entrance Fee Alone - With Supplemental
1287 884

"The value of a residence at the time of transfer is based on return of the entrance fee, plus any appreciation paid by the incoming resident. The increase in the value of a residence for each year of occupancy (subject to Board of Directors' annual approval) is as follows:
$1060 for their model

The appreciation thing seems straightforward enough. The price is set rather than negotiated, and will increase. Right now they have 100% occupancy and in fact my folks aren't sure when a unit will become available, nor are they in a hurry.

Any idea what this supplemental fee and monthly charge is? It seems pretty hefty. Is that monthly supplemental charge an additional 884 on top of the 1287, or is it a lower monthly charge if you pay a higher fee upfront?

Any other factors to look for? I know they have looked at a lot of places, for a few years, and have evaluated/compared the services like common areas, meals, fitness, etc. Ideally they'd rather be someplace where they could transition to assisted living, but I don't think they've found a place they like and a price they can afford. The location is very good. It's about a mile from where they are now, and a mile from both my brother and sister.
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Old 10-19-2011, 10:58 AM   #2
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My MIL went into a place that sounds very much like this. The fee is usually a monthly charge and is for outside maintenance, lawn mowing, grounds upkeep, may include inside repairs, shuttle service and usually includes one meal a day. The charge or $1200 is for the person and $850 for the second person, so a little over $2000 a month.

The place she was in had a very similar arrangement for the property, however there is a catch. "When the property is transferred to a new owner" When she went there, she was placed on a waiting list as they were 100% full. During the next several years, they had to raise the monthly cost to survive, and now the place has many vacant units. So she is ready to move to the more assisted living phase, but there are no new residents that will purchase her unit. So right now she is again on a waiting list, behind about 20 other units waiting for new residents. Because the place is not full, monthly cost keeps going up.
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Old 10-19-2011, 11:04 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RunningBum View Post
Entrance Fee
Alone - With Supplemental
$57,780-101,780

Monthly Charge
Entrance Fee Alone - With Supplemental
1287 884



Any idea what this supplemental fee and monthly charge is? It seems pretty hefty. Is that monthly supplemental charge an additional 884 on top of the 1287, or is it a lower monthly charge if you pay a higher fee upfront?

.
I have recently been looking at places for my Mom . A lot of the places are priced two ways . A lower entry price and higher monthly fees or a higher entry fee and lower monthly fees . Some also do not charge such large upfront fees but a yeary supplement in the $5,000 range and lower monthly fees . These are for units that you rent rather than own.Since both your parents are alive it might be better to find one with assisted living options . We looked at several that you could just add levels of assistance for a fee.
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Old 10-19-2011, 11:24 AM   #4
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We looked at that type of senior housing too. Many are having difficulty selling residences because those who want to move in can't sell their existing residence.

I did an analysis of the rental vs buy in costs. The result depends on your lifespan assumptions and return on investments.

There is a Continuing Care Community association that certifies these communities. They look at services and financials. The financials are very important because it is possible that the property can be sold and those agreements not worth a nickel. Unless the community is resident owned or operated by a strong non-profit I would be very hesitant to buy in. Renting would be much safer.

Don't assume that the community is able to care for all aging conditions such as Alzheimer's or dementia. Read that contract carefully.

When talking to friends I learned that if you move to a community some distance from family and the spouse dies the survivor often wants to move back 'home'.
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Old 10-19-2011, 11:25 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Moemg View Post
I have recently been looking at places for my Mom . A lot of the places are priced two ways . A lower entry price and higher monthly fees or a higher entry fee and lower monthly fees . Some also do not charge such large upfront fees but a yeary supplement in the $5,000 range and lower monthly fees . These are for units that you rent rather than own.Since both your parents are alive it might be better to find one with assisted living options . We looked at several that you could just add levels of assistance for a fee.

I would add... make sure that they do not have to move to get the higher levels of assistance... one of the places that my mom looked at had different sections for different levels...
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Old 10-19-2011, 12:51 PM   #6
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Don't assume that the community is able to care for all aging conditions such as Alzheimer's or dementia. Read that contract carefully.
Yes, you can get some nasty surprises. DW's father and step-mother moved to a full service place specifically because they have Alzheimer's and nursing units. But DW's father got tossed out because of some incidents after he moved to the Alzheimer's unit. In our opinion the outfit misled us because they were not adequately staffed (or willing) to care of any but the most docile Alzheimer's patients. After dad was moved to a different Alzheimer's facility, step-mother ended up moving back with her kids across the country.
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:05 PM   #7
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...they were not adequately staffed (or willing) to care of any but the most docile Alzheimer's patients.
That was exactly what I had in mind. There is a fine CCC in my area that refused to provide care to a former professional woman who developed Alzheimer's after living in the community for many years. She had suffered a profound personality change and they just couldn't manage her. Unfortunately the $$$ she spent to buy in was lost because there was no provision in the contract for rebate under those circumstances.

I don't intend to convey that a CCC is a bad decision. They can be wonderful for many reasons. My Godmother lives in one in Eugene and it is working beautifully for her. My cousin's widow just moved into one in Albany, she has one sharp pencil. In both cases they have lived in those towns for 50+ years and know the facilities well.
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:30 PM   #8
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Thanks for the responses. Meals are not included in the base price so I'm thinking/hoping the 2nd column isn't for the 2nd person. I'm guessing it is the "pay me more now or pay me more later" kind of thing. There is an option for a few meals per week that I'm sure they'll take.

As I mentioned in the OP, they do NOT offer assisted living options, so the aging care issues really don't apply. I agree that this would be better if they could transition easily to that, but the whole thing has been going on for years and I don't want to try to explain the whole story. I just want to make sure that the one they have settled on has no hidden gotchas. The transfer one is certainly a possibility, but they could face the same issue with their current home down the line. If they move now (next spring actually, though availability is uncertain), I'm pretty sure my niece will be buying it. Dad said he had some questions for me for when I visit next month, but didn't say what they are. I'm going to check with my brother and sister too, to see what they know and think about it. Sometimes they are deeply involved, sometimes not. The family dynamics can be odd at times. I had been out of the loop on most things but then helped them with car shopping last year and they really seemed to like how all that went so now I'm the go-to kid, I guess.
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Old 10-19-2011, 02:16 PM   #9
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Dad just confirmed the price structure. I was also looking at the wrong line. They can either pay 51415 up front and 1153 monthly, or 90415 and 790. He's looking at the higher entrance fee, which makes sense to me since they (or their estate) would get that back, and they can afford it.
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Old 10-19-2011, 02:27 PM   #10
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Consider calling the facility directly and ask or look on their web site... they may provide the information on their web site.
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Old 10-19-2011, 09:42 PM   #11
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Dad just confirmed the price structure. I was also looking at the wrong line. They can either pay 51415 up front and 1153 monthly, or 90415 and 790. He's looking at the higher entrance fee, which makes sense to me since they (or their estate) would get that back, and they can afford it.
They can get that back? Read the fine print carefully.
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Old 10-19-2011, 10:24 PM   #12
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They can get that back? Read the fine print carefully.
I will. The price sheet implies it, but it doesn't seem right. Thanks.
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Old 10-20-2011, 12:32 PM   #13
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We moved grandparents to a church owned community that had Independent living, assisted living and skilled care and included Alzheimer's. GF was in skilled care and GM lived in the independent and could take the elevator up to see her husband. All three were monthly fee based. In the IL you had other services like maid service, clothes washing etc and meal plan choices you could purchase ala carte.

As GM aged she moved to assisted then skilled care hospice. We visited often and pleased with the care she recieved.
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