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Old 12-09-2010, 02:18 PM   #21
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The market going up.
Ah, the ole performance-based asessment, gotcha!
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Old 12-09-2010, 04:22 PM   #22
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Ah, the ole performance-based asessment, gotcha!
I figured you'd get a kick out of that. Most likely the truth though.
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Old 12-09-2010, 04:27 PM   #23
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How do you define a good job?
Good question!

Are they consistently exceeding the after-tax return I would have gotten on a portfolio built with my modest knowledge after their expenses are taken out, with a risk profile I am comfortable with?

But that's just me. Other folks might be happy with any sort of return, and breakfast with their advisor twice a year...
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Old 12-09-2010, 05:19 PM   #24
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Agreed it's cheaper and safer to DIY and learn
however there is a time element to that, and some people would prefer to either not learn new things, or get help.
Until you find out how much most FP's charge, and that will renew your interest in DIY.

Unfortunately some people can't learn finance even well enough to manage for themselves, I work with quite a few...who have no hope of retiring (though they don't realize it).
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Old 12-09-2010, 06:53 PM   #25
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Many people would rather have R&R in Hell than have to attend to finances. This is hard for us to comprehend, because most of us actually like financial matters and the reasoning, the details and the math involved.

Also, under some circumstances it is easier to bring in an outside "authority" to unload some personal responsibility and deflect second guessing or conflict within the couple. Like bringing in a consultant at work. He costs a lot and he won't help, but then at least it will be someone elses's fault when things go wrong.

Ha
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Old 12-09-2010, 08:32 PM   #26
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SO, you want to meet with a commission-based FP and waste his/her time with no intentions of using them anyways, just to impress your partner? Sounds like a barrel of fun...........
There is someone at Edward Jones who is offering free portfolio evaluations. If s/he is willing then so am I. I doubt that he would feel bad about fleecing me out of my money and I will absolutely not feel bad about fleecing him/her out of their time.

I don't know how a lot of financial salespeople can sleep at night.
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Old 12-09-2010, 09:50 PM   #27
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I don't trust any FAs. I think the vast majority of them are either incompetent, or dishonest, or both.

My parents have a substantial amount in CDs in a couple of major banks. The "FAs" in these institutions are always calling to offer "investment advice" everytime a CD is about to mature (I'm sure it's probably just coincidence). Based on these advice, they put $150k in annuity even though they are in their 70s and have substantial income from other investments; another $200k in some stupid high-yield bond fund with a large frontload charge and annual expenses; another $100k on this; another $100k in that, etc. Add them all up, and pretty soon we were talking about real money.

When I finally found out about these, I called these banks and told them to f*** off and stop calling and bothering my parents. Now when they go into the bank for a maturing CD, the only decision they have to make is for how long and at what rate to renew the CD. No more unwanted "advice" from anyone else, and no more hard sales, or else we take all the money out. Unfortunatetely they are still stuck with these "investments" that just don't make sense for them, but at least we've closed the door on all the vultures.
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Old 12-09-2010, 09:52 PM   #28
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I don't trust any FAs. I think the vast majority of them are either incompetent, or dishonest, or both.

My parents have a substantial amount in CDs in a couple of major banks. The "FAs" in these institutions are always calling to offer "investment advice" everytime a CD is about to mature (I'm sure it's probably just coincidence). Based on these advice, they put $150k in annuity even though they are in their 70s and have substantial income from other investments; another $200k in some stupid high-yield bond fund with a large frontload charge and annual expenses; another $100k on this; another $100k in that, etc. Add them all up, and pretty soon we were talking about real money.

When I finally found out about these, I called these banks and told them to f*** off and stop calling and bothering my parents. Now when they go into the bank for a maturing CD, the only decision they have to make is for how long and at what rate to renew the CD. No more unwanted "advice" from anyone else, and no more hard sales, or else we take all the money out. Unfortunatetely they are still stuck with these "investments" that just don't make sense for them, but at least we've closed the door on all the vultures.
Most bankers are reps, not FAs. They have a very small platform of products and the bank makes them sell everything with front end loads and long surrender charges........
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Old 12-09-2010, 09:53 PM   #29
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There is someone at Edward Jones who is offering free portfolio evaluations. If s/he is willing then so am I. I doubt that he would feel bad about fleecing me out of my money and I will absolutely not feel bad about fleecing him/her out of their time.

I don't know how a lot of financial salespeople can sleep at night.
You sound bitter about it, why even go? Have your partner meet with him if that's what you want........
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Old 12-09-2010, 10:21 PM   #30
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Any time you are dealing with someone in sales, most likely they will be doing what's best for them, not you. Especially if it is all commission based.
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Old 12-10-2010, 07:18 AM   #31
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I figured you'd get a kick out of that. Most likely the truth though.
Actually, the measure of success is a lot simpler: the advisor is successful if the client meets their goals.

Now those goals have to be reasonable, which may involve some education...
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Old 12-10-2010, 08:52 AM   #32
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Good advisors are the ones which are in it for the people
the 44% of advisors who are in it for the money leave something to be desired IMO
Huh?

Where are all these advisors who get all dressed up in a suit and tie, drive to my house at 7:00 in the evening, and spend an hour talking about life insurance and mutual funds, "for the people?" Why would someone do that - out of the kindness of their heart? Do they view it as some sort of charity?

It seems to me that they're all in it for the money. I don't hold that against them - it's the same reason I go to my job. It's not like I can't think of anything better to do with my time, so I dress up and slog to work at 7:00 in the morning every day (you, know, "for the people"). I do it for the money. Just like everyone else.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I'm just saying let's be realistic about it. I have a hard time believing that there are any financial advisors out there doing it "for the people." If they were really doing it "for the people," they'd be recommending low-fee index funds, instead of pushing whole life insurance policies and the high-fee actively-managed funds that generate the biggest trailing commissions for themselves.
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Old 12-10-2010, 08:55 AM   #33
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You sound bitter about it, why even go? Have your partner meet with him if that's what you want........
Why is it a problem for you if I want to educate my partner on the difference between a fee only financial planner and a commission based sales person?
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Old 12-10-2010, 09:03 AM   #34
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If s/he is willing then so am I. I doubt that he would feel bad about fleecing me out of my money and I will absolutely not feel bad about fleecing him/her out of their time.
So two wrongs make a right now? Helen, I think this says a lot more about what kind of person you are than the morals of financial advisors.

While you're at it, why don't you head on down to a car dealership and pretend like you're in the market for a luxury SUV? Take the test drive (make sure you really flog the thing hard, too), waste a couple hours of the guy's time, then laugh in his face and walk out. After all, that snake would've probably tried to sell you rust proofing and an extended warranty, so he deserves it.
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Old 12-10-2010, 09:05 AM   #35
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Why is it a problem for you if I want to educate my partner on the difference between a fee only financial planner and a commission based sales person?
Because you can achieve the same goal without being dishonest and vindictive against an innocent stranger.
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Old 12-10-2010, 09:41 AM   #36
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Because you can achieve the same goal without being dishonest and vindictive against an innocent stranger.
And where's the fun in that?
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Old 12-10-2010, 09:55 AM   #37
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Why is it a problem for you if I want to educate my partner on the difference between a fee only financial planner and a commission based sales person?
I guess if you dislike FAs so much, why put yourself through that? It is none of my business, just curious........sorry if I offended you.......
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Old 12-10-2010, 09:58 AM   #38
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If they were really doing it "for the people," they'd be recommending low-fee index funds, instead of pushing whole life insurance policies and the high-fee actively-managed funds that generate the biggest trailing commissions for themselves.
Some of us do manage money with low-cost alternatives.........
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Old 12-10-2010, 09:59 AM   #39
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Any time you are dealing with someone in sales, most likely they will be doing what's best for them, not you. Especially if it is all commission based.
Kind of like car sales..........
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Old 12-10-2010, 11:24 AM   #40
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Huh?


I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I'm just saying let's be realistic about it. I have a hard time believing that there are any financial advisors out there doing it "for the people." If they were really doing it "for the people," they'd be recommending low-fee index funds, instead of pushing whole life insurance policies and the high-fee actively-managed funds that generate the biggest trailing commissions for themselves.
The licenses a person has will change how advice is given and what advice can be given. It's not as simple as you suggest.

If the salesperson has a series 6 or series 7 license (only), they cannot give financial advice for a fee is problem 1. This is by law.

The advice comes from the products they sell (this is how series 7 works- the advice is coming from the products being sold). The standard for the series 7 is only recommend products suitable (based on risk tolerance) for the client. If the index funds had 12b1 fees or loads, then the advisor can sell those products and give advice to the client. Those same fees would raise the costs for all other investors. It's how the industry is set up.

If the client only wants advice, that is the series 65 (different license, different test) and those recommendations are paid for with a fee paid for the financial plan.
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