What's the size of your portfolio?

[Sunset]

No thanks needed for making it private. I messed it up. It was my venture into polling, and not too successful as you can see per the feedback . I find it funny.

Re your inheritance, it's a bit tricky, but as you state it's very sizable. You don't need to account it to a dollar or even $100K. I'm sure you remember the amounts of inheritances you received and added to your IRA or taxable account. Can't you estimate the growth of each separately? You can be conservative and use S&P 500 return over the last 11 years and then another timeline for the newer inheritance.

I wished to exclude inheritances and lottery winnings because you didn't earn them per se. It's luck or kind of (not sure what term to use for inheritances).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In general, I thought people wouldn't take this poll very personal. You all know that Vanguard, Fidelity, Schwab, etc. do data mining and they use real data. Later you read an article saying that people have saved X dollars in 401k and Y dollars in IRA's and then extrapolate for the rest population.

So, my inquiry was how much of your own earned money a person or a couple saved in 401k+IRA+taxable. Of course, some people (successful entrepreneurs) have better chances as they have solo 401k or some 'C' type person got valuable options/stock. So, those will skew results as well as age because older people by definition should have larger balances (if they chose to save maximums). But don't worry I'm not planning to do any data mining as I'm clueless how it's done.......

Wow, you really want folks to work looking up the estimated growth of their inheritance.

This part I find odd because while I worked for my $$$, after I invested it really is luck as to my earnings. Your return (size of portfolio) is a function of the investment. I've read of a couple retired in HI who invested a small amount in Apple in the beginning, while I didn't.

As for Vanguard, Fidelity, Schwab, etc. do data mining , they don't exclude the inheritances invested with them, since they have no idea of the fund sources.

 

[travelover]

Would it be appropriate to estimate the value of my Beanie Baby collection and include that in the total?

 

[brainsqueeze]

No thanks needed for making it private. I messed it up. It was my venture into polling, and not too successful as you can see per the feedback . I find it funny.

Re your inheritance, it's a bit tricky, but as you state it's very sizable. You don't need to account it to a dollar or even $100K. I'm sure you remember the amounts of inheritances you received and added to your IRA or taxable account. Can't you estimate the growth of each separately? You can be conservative and use S&P 500 return over the last 11 years and then another timeline for the newer inheritance.

I wished to exclude inheritances and lottery winnings because you didn't earn them per se. It's luck or kind of (not sure what term to use for inheritances).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In general, I thought people wouldn't take this poll very personal. You all know that Vanguard, Fidelity, Schwab, etc. do data mining and they use real data. Later you read an article saying that people have saved X dollars in 401k and Y dollars in IRA's and then extrapolate for the rest population.

So, my inquiry was how much of your own earned money a person or a couple saved in 401k+IRA+taxable. Of course, some people (successful entrepreneurs) have better chances as they have solo 401k or some 'C' type person got valuable options/stock. So, those will skew results as well as age because older people by definition should have larger balances (if they chose to save maximums). But don't worry I'm not planning to do any data mining as I'm clueless how it's done.

We can redo this poll in 30-40 years after people with fat pensions have left the playground. Hardly anyone will be awarded a pension in private sector in the far future.

Your poll title doesn't match your stated intention, which is confusing.

Most of us think of our total portfolio, and that would include earnings/savings, stock options, dividends, company matches, windfalls, inheritances, lottery winnings, etc. All of that goes into one big pot of money, does it not? And then it is invested. So if your goal was to measure "portfolio size" then artificially pulling out certain aspects of it is confusing, and inconsistent.

But now it sounds like you want to know how much people have saved. In that case it has little to do with portfolio size. You could just ask how much people have saved?

All the other difficulties remain - those who are house rich but portfolio poor by choice, those with pensions and annuities but not a lot of hard assets, etc - but in the first place your question is conflicted.

We happen to have a pretty simple portfolio. Less than 5% from inheritances/gifts. Less than 5% of our net worth in home equity. So I voted. You didn't say whether I should include our college savings portfolio in portfolio - it's our money, earned and saved with our wages and investment returns - but I didn't, and it didn't change our category regardless.

 

[aida2003]

Your poll title doesn't match your stated intention, which is confusing.

Most of us think of our total portfolio, and that would include earnings/savings, stock options, dividends, company matches, windfalls, inheritances, lottery winnings, etc. All of that goes into one big pot of money, does it not? And then it is invested. So if your goal was to measure "portfolio size" then artificially pulling out certain aspects of it is confusing, and inconsistent.

But now it sounds like you want to know how much people have saved. In that case it has little to do with portfolio size. You could just ask how much people have saved?

All the other difficulties remain - those who are house rich but portfolio poor by choice, those with pensions and annuities but not a lot of hard assets, etc - but in the first place your question is conflicted.

We happen to have a pretty simple portfolio. Less than 5% from inheritances/gifts. Less than 5% of our net worth in home equity. So I voted. You didn't say whether I should include our college savings portfolio in portfolio - it's our money, earned and saved with our wages and investment returns - but I didn't, and it didn't change our category regardless.

Well, now I gotta admit. Since my family has a very simple portfolio I cannot figure out the fancy stuff. Yes, I'd include options/bonus in stock, because that person worked his a$$ off to ascend the ladder to get that stock/options, they're vested, he/she can sell and add to the piggy bank if wanted.

No, I wouldn't include 529 or prepaid plans because it's still not yours unless beneficiaries don't use it and you cash out after paying penalties. But you can include this on the next poll once you've done it, not now if that money is still earmarked for education.

Our portfolio is very simple: two 401k's, two Roth IRA's and then taxable accounts. My vote didn't include paid-off house or cars nor 529 plan. I have prepaid my summer travel to the EU, but I didn't include that either .

 

[2017ish]

This is interesting counterpart to portfolio/net worth polls. From late 2014, a poll on how much you need/want/desire/plan to spend each year in retirement: http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f28/poll-how-much-income-do-you-need-to-retire-74379.html

Shows that we have a wide collection of folks, all of whom are content in their own way.

 

[aida2003]

Wow, you really want folks to work looking up the estimated growth of their inheritance.

This part I find odd because while I worked for my $$$, after I invested it really is luck as to my earnings. Your return (size of portfolio) is a function of the investment. I've read of a couple retired in HI who invested a small amount in Apple in the beginning, while I didn't.

As for Vanguard, Fidelity, Schwab, etc. do data mining , they don't exclude the inheritances invested with them, since they have no idea of the fund sources.

Yep, you nailed it: I want that lucky number of savings. How much you & spouse saved and how lucky your investments were. I didn't invest in Google, Apple, etc., so I'm out of that luck as well.
But again if I've said savings in the poll, people would have teared me apart either way. I thought 401k+IRA stand for savings and then I defined them a bit more in my OP.
Net worth is also skewed by values of houses in SF, NYC, Boston, etc. vs. some rural place in Alabama. Then add boats, Harley's given by parents or grandparents. It's also over the map, isn't it?

For example, yes, it would be interesting to create a multi-layered survey like CaliKid suggested, but that's above my skill. I'll let someone else do it.

 

[dvalley]

No big deal to me, I logged into Personal Capital, looked at cash+investments and picked the range on the poll.

 

[DrRoy]

I also question deducting inheritance. It would be about 25-30% of the total in my case.

 

[petershk]

I feel so simple minded. Seems like the intent is pretty simple. How much liquid "money" do you have right now?

The complexity comes from the endless mechanisms and lifestyles that people have for retiring.

So I'd just total up all my bank accounts, investment accounts, CD, etc. subtract any debt and that's the number.

Without comparing that to my lifestyle choices and other forms of cash flow it's not that helpful of a number... but it's a number ... I mean it doesn't tell you how safe someone's retirement is or how much money they can spend each month.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app

 

[Danmar]

So to the OP: with all the data, have you learned anything or reached any conclusions?

 

[bingybear]

I feel so simple minded. Seems like the intent is pretty simple. How much liquid "money" do you have right now?

The complexity comes from the endless mechanisms and lifestyles that people have for retiring.

So I'd just total up all my bank accounts, investment accounts, CD, etc. subtract any debt and that's the number.

Without comparing that to my lifestyle choices and other forms of cash flow it's not that helpful of a number... but it's a number ... I mean it doesn't tell you how safe someone's retirement is or how much money they can spend each month.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app

The op wanted any inherited dollars subtracted out. Only money your worked to earn. Inherited $ could be substantial and be liquid.

 

[petershk]

The op wanted any inherited dollars subtracted out. Only money your worked to earn. Inherited $ could be substantial and be liquid.

Ahh ok . Yeah you're right. This topic is always so fun to read about

 

[aida2003]

So to the OP: with all the data, have you learned anything or reached any conclusions?

I don't know, probably not. I got into a complicated pool. But as the 1st burned pancake it did attract audience. I look at this as a funny experiment.

Just yesterday evening I thought about people saying that Net Worth is better and then about Rodi's note stating that it will be so different because some are young, some are not. This would imply that the Net Worth poll doesn't show that much comprehensive data either.
A net worth of a kid out of college or mid-career couple living in a pricey locale with 2 or more kiddos will be very different from people close to retirement and with luck they might have inheritances too. Then expenses come into place, then lifestyles.

I kind of got a feeling from reading this thread that people want to show a 'bigger' something hence all the questions why is that included and why is that excluded, even though it's a private poll and there's no way to compare Peter's stash to John's or Stacey's stash.

I might belong to this minimalist movement (you can google them; they have a documentary about minimalism; however, I don't follow them), so I have a different opinion about collectibles, fancy toys/cars/boats/houses, whatever.

Based on the poll results, the stash is spread in the middle and I kind of expected that. There're quite a few in $7M+ range which is nice to know that such wealthy people take their time to talk here. But yes, I admit that I don't know if the data represent the numbers I was asking for. Like the saying goes "you get what you pay for" meaning I was not a great pollster here . I'll probably go back to reading "Hi, I am.." threads.

 

[Amethyst]

As for inheritances, I received a small one from my Mother which immediately joined the family investment "pot."

Whether I subtract the original cost basis of the bequest, or its presumed "growth," will make very little difference to the total.

 

[Major Tom]

Although I had previously decided to sit this one out, I just realized that whether I included my modest inheritance or not, wouldn't change the poll band I was in, so I voted.

I also agree that this is kind of a "how long is your johnson" poll, but would like to point out that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the occasional bit of schoolboy comparison from time to time. After all, we're retired - what else are we going to do all day?

 

[tmm99]

Hi Aida, I think you did great with this poll. The accompanying thread has been very interesting too (and at times quite entertaining!)

 

[W2R]

Hi Aida, I think you did great with this poll. The accompanying thread has been very interesting too (and at times quite entertaining!)

+1

I thought you did a great job with the poll! I was a little annoyed at all the "nit picking" in the thread, but after some reflection it seemed to me that the source of that was that others thought the poll was really neat and wanted to make an even better poll.

Another good thing about your poll, was that it led to sort of an ER Forum "poll Monday" yesterday. We had a lot of polls, some serious and some just for fun.

 

[NW-Bound]

... I kind of got a feeling from reading this thread that people want to show a 'bigger' something ...

If the men want to talk about their hand size, what do the women want to compare? Their feet?

 

[RobbieB]

The important thing is to see that "it can be done". By pretty much anyone willing to live below their means and save some dough. When I was just getting started I built up my slush fund first so I could buy stuff I needed w/o the 18% of credit cards. I started a brokerage next and started adding to that. Then an IRA broker account which I used to zero anything owed to the IRS, instead of writing them a check I looked to see how much I needed to put in the IRA so I didn't have to write that check.

I have Pops to thank for teaching me to "save some dough" -

 

[rodi]

Aida - you did create a very interesting discussion - bravo!

As for the stages of life/ages... What about retired, with two kids, in a pricey area... that describes my household.

And to your thinking about how much you've saved based on your hard work... I see your point, but as usual, the argumentative side in me comes out.... We chose to divert a lot of our "savings" into paying off our SoCal sized mortgage... so that makes our answer smaller.... but those extra payments mean we now need a lot less income in retirement. Same hard earned cash - just used to pay off a house rather than invested in the portfolio....

Ok... I'll be nice and stop arguing. Once again - even though I'm raising lots of arguments and objections, I'm enjoying this discussion.

 

[RobbieB]

I did the same thing, paid down the house fast. But "way back then" interest rates were ~8%. CA has a very favorable property tax and it really favors those who "stick" in a house for a long time.

Now I bask in the glow of a paid off house that costs me 2 grand a year in property taxes.

 

[aida2003]

Hi Aida, I think you did great with this poll. The accompanying thread has been very interesting too (and at times quite entertaining!)

You know, I agree. Without the thread and all the nitpicking, the poll would have been boring, wouldn't it? I dislike looking at surveys with no stories attached. Now people expressed thoughts and moods and that's fine by me.

Maybe we should make a poll about money stash and weight and how it correlates.... Just kidding, but I found this data driven article entertaining: https://assetbuilder.com/knowledge-center/articles/why-are-we-so-fat

 

[aida2003]

And to your thinking about how much you've saved based on your hard work... I see your point, but as usual, the argumentative side in me comes out.... We chose to divert a lot of our "savings" into paying off our SoCal sized mortgage... so that makes our answer smaller.... but those extra payments mean we now need a lot less income in retirement. Same hard earned cash - just used to pay off a house rather than invested in the portfolio....

Yep, Rodi, we did the same thing. Your household earned/earns much more than we're earning (I'm guessing only based on your area; you/your DH must be smart to earn good money in order to RE with kiddos), but we're living in a less expensive city and cheaper house, but we chose to pay off our house early as well. If I've added the house, I would have needed to select a higher range (not much into the next band, but still 'bigger'). I tend to be conservative: inflate expense/liabilities, deflate income/assets). Oh, yeah, maybe I (or both) will retire when I reach your age when you quit...See, here the age comes in...your stash is larger than mine .

 

[aida2003]

If the men want to talk about their hand size, what do the women want to compare? Their feet?

Well, you know what boys are talking about...so we do cup sizes in the youth? however, feet would work too.... unless the winner is who wears a smaller shoe...

 

[aida2003]

Although I had previously decided to sit this one out, I just realized that whether I included my modest inheritance or not, wouldn't change the poll band I was in, so I voted.

See, you and Amethyst found a work around perfectly. If the deduction of inheritance doesn't affect the range in the poll, there's no problem at all. But I think some people had substantial inheritance, so it would be different. Yes, it's their money, but they didn't earn it. However, I understand their position. If I ever get an inheritance (that's a big and distant 'if), I'll probably think that it must be included because it's now *my/our* money though I didn't go to a job to get it.