What is the average portfolio?

[Cayman]

Why?

How would that even work? What would make you feel better?

As others have pointed out, even the comparison is [-]pretty[/-] flat-out meaningless w/o a lot more context.

I happen to know a couple who could live pretty large by most standards with a near zero portfolio, they only really need enough in their checking account for cash flow to cover their monthly bills. They each have a 3% inflation adjusted pension - combined, about $200K a year (and that was some years back when I looked it up). And oh, that pension income is not taxed in IL.

So some individuals with near zero savings can live pretty much like someone who is conservative with a 3% WR on a $6.67 Million portfolio.

So in this thread $0 = $6,666,667 - it's all fuzzy/meaningless math w/o context.

-ERD50

It's all about context. A $0 savings person can spend/live like a $6M portfolio person who has a 3% WR.
Nice example ERD50. Thank you

 

[pacergal]

It's all about context. A $0 savings person can spend/live like a $6M portfolio person who has a 3% WR.
Nice example ERD50. Thank you

Exactly.
We have two pensions that allow us a far greater income ability than what we have saved in IRA "portfolio"

 

[brett]

How long is a piece of string?

Does it really matter??

As long as you are happy with yours why does it matter what others may have?

I have never understood this comparison business.

 

[F.I.R.E User]

What is the average for a 45 year old here as in FIRE?

 

[Car-Guy]

I was probably getting close to my 1st million (NW) when I was 45 but I wasn't retired.... Of course that's when a million was something.

 

[F.I.R.E User]

I was probably getting close to my 1st million (NW) when I was 45 but I wasn't retired.... Of course that's when a million was something.

My friend lives on $11k a year in South Carolina and retired at 45.

 

[Car-Guy]

My friend lives on $11k a year in South Carolina and retired at 45.

11k a year. He must live in a tent and alone and live off the food banks. I might be able to stretch 11k for two months. Maybe..

 

[F.I.R.E User]

11k a year. He must live in a tent and alone and live off the food banks. I might be able to stretch 11k for two months. Maybe..

House paid off. Not sure how he is doing it.

 

[LateToFIRE]

11k a year. He must live in a tent and alone and live off the food banks. I might be able to stretch 11k for two months. Maybe..

I have relatives in deep rural S.C. and I could believe it, but running water and indoor plumbing might be seen as luxuries in them dar parts.

 

[Car-Guy]

I have relatives in deep rural S.C. and I could believe it, but running water and indoor plumbing might be seen as luxuries in them dar parts.

When I was a kid, I can still remember visiting my aunt and uncle in southern Louisiana and they didn't have electricity and still used an outhouse. I "think" they had an indoor water pump and I recall them using kerosene lamps for light. He was a farmer (share cropper) and a lot of their food came from what they could grow. But that was back in the late 50s. Impressive to me: they had 6 kids and several grew up to go on to college.

 

[RxMan]

I get a headache even reading the posts here about how to "present value" a pension. My wife and I each have one with joint survivorship.

I can understand that. I’m not fortunate enough to have a pension myself but if I were in your position I’d research how much money it would take for you or your wife to buy an annuity that would be closest to matching your or her pension benefit. Then I would just use that number as a rough estimate of the present value of the pension.

 

[LateToFIRE]

When I was a kid, I can still remember visiting my aunt and uncle in southern Louisiana and they didn't have electricity and still used an outhouse. I "think" they had an indoor water pump and I recall them using kerosene lamps for light. He was a farmer (share cropper) and a lot of their food came from what they could grow. But that was back in the late 50s. Impressive to me: they had 6 kids and several grew up to go on to college.

Very similar memories from my childhood in the 60's. I remember when our favorite Aunt/Uncle got indoor plumbing, and them proudly showing off their sparkling new toilet in a "bathroom" that was barely roughed in (i.e. no walls yet). Boy-o-boy was I happy wasn't gonna have to use the outhouse any longer., but I don't think they were gonna let me mess up the new toilet for awhile.

In another memory, I vaguely recall a very early childhood fragment living in a one room attic all together with my parents and siblings, and there was no toilet, just a bedpan in case you had to go in the middle of the night. I must have been 2 or 3 at the time. Funny what bits you retain from those early years.

I also recall from early childhood, an elderly Great Aunt we'd visit frequently, lived in a 2-room log cabin, heated only by a wood-burning stove, no indoor plumbing. She looked like right out of a history book.

 

[LateToFIRE]

Very similar memories from my childhood in the 60's. I remember when our favorite Aunt/Uncle got indoor plumbing, and them proudly showing off their sparkling new toilet in a "bathroom" that was barely roughed in (i.e. no walls yet). Boy-o-boy was I happy wasn't gonna have to use the outhouse any longer., but I don't think they were gonna let me mess up the new toilet for awhile.

In another memory, I vaguely recall a very early childhood fragment living in a one room attic all together with my parents and siblings, and there was no toilet, just a bedpan in case you had to go in the middle of the night. I must have been 2 or 3 at the time. Funny what bits you retain from those early years.

I also recall from early childhood, an elderly Great Aunt we'd visit frequently, lived in a 2-room log cabin, heated only by a wood-burning stove, no indoor plumbing. She looked like right out of a history book.

By the way, these were also the kinds of situations where if chicken was on the dinner menu, us kids were sent out to the yard to go catch one and pluck it.

 

[Car-Guy]

By the way, these were also the kinds of situations where if chicken was on the dinner menu, us kids were sent out to the yard to go catch one and pluck it.

Yep, remember seeing that too. Also saw the older kids doing the daily farm chores like milking the one or two milk cows they had. Something that was done before school. Come to think if it, I'm not sure how they got to and from school each day.

 

[calmloki]

Yep, remember seeing that too. Also saw the older kids doing the daily farm chores like milking the one or two milk cows they had. Something that was done before school. Come to think if it, I'm not sure how they got to and from school each day.

Easy there - I milked cows by hand into my early teens. One learns to tuck your forehead into the hollow in front of her hip to reduce kicking and to trap or be wary of her tail - especially if it has muck on it. Barn cats appreciated the odd directed milk squirt. Also had outhouses on most of the places we lived in - the parents wanted to raise us in the country and kept moving to grow the acreage.
We had ceremonial outhouse burnings at several places when they were adequately civilized - sort of like mortgage burning.

Interesting mix of fielding debt collector calls, living in pretty ramshackle old houses, and driving here and there looking at land to move up to - it was always the acreage, house just needed to keep us dry. Folks had a vision and worked toward it. Portfolios are sort of like that - we all have different ideas and ways of implementing our portfolio visions. Till your own field.

 

[old medic]

By the way, these were also the kinds of situations where if chicken was on the dinner menu, us kids were sent out to the yard to go catch one and pluck it.

Been there, Done that... Remember playing rock paper scissors with my brother over who got the hatchet.

 

[Cayman]

How long is a piece of string?
Does it really matter??

As long as you are happy with yours why does it matter what others may have?

I have never understood this comparison business.

At times, I've found it a motivator (used productively). For example:

"Hey, my peer group has more money saved than I do. Can I achieve at least the median for my peer group? Can I exceed it a bit? At what cost to my other priorities?"

That's how we ended up FI in our 40s and ER'd shortly after. The problem comes when people get jealous or brag. Focusing on comparisons for self elevation, getting jealous or bragging is just non-productive.

 

[LateToFIRE]

At times, I've found it a motivator (used productively). For example:

"Hey, my peer group has more money saved than I do. Can I achieve at least the median for my peer group? Can I exceed it a bit? At what cost to my other priorities?"

That's how we ended up FI in our 40s and ER'd shortly after. The problem comes when people get jealous or brag. Focusing on comparisons for self elevation, getting jealous or bragging is just non-productive.

I too track my portfolio and NW as a way of seeing if I'm ahead, behind or on target with my goals. It's like tracking your weight, or your track speed, or whatever you're measuring as part of an objective. Where it gets tricky is when you try to compare to others - that's a slippery slope for sure, usually leads to negative feelings.

 

[ERD50]

At times, I've found it a motivator (used productively). For example:

"Hey, my peer group has more money saved than I do. Can I achieve at least the median for my peer group? Can I exceed it a bit? At what cost to my other priorities?"

That's how we ended up FI in our 40s and ER'd shortly after. The problem comes when people get jealous or brag. Focusing on comparisons for self elevation, getting jealous or bragging is just non-productive.

But, a portfolio number, w/o context is meaningless. And if you try to attach meaning to it, you are being misled.

Age, available pension, SS, and amount you want to spend in retirement etc, can turn those numbers on their head. As I mentioned, someone with enough SS/pension or other external income to support their desired lifestyle needs near zero in their portfolio.

Some here are very satisfied with a modest lifestyle in retirement, others want to travel and do it all first class. They don't need the same resources. Why would the modest person keep working and save for expenses they will never incur or vice-versa. None of it makes any sense.

A simpler way to put that is, when you say "Hey, my peer group has more money saved than I do.", you have no idea from this thread if the poster is in your peer group or not. So it is all meaningless.

-ERD50

 

[Cayman]

But, a portfolio number, w/o context is meaningless. And if you try to attach meaning to it, you are being misled.

Age, available pension, SS, and amount you want to spend in retirement etc, can turn those numbers on their head. As I mentioned, someone with enough SS/pension or other external income to support their desired lifestyle needs near zero in their portfolio.

Some here are very satisfied with a modest lifestyle in retirement, others want to travel and do it all first class. They don't need the same resources. Why would the modest person keep working and save for expenses they will never incur or vice-versa. None of it makes any sense.

A simpler way to put that is, when you say "Hey, my peer group has more money saved than I do.", you have no idea from this thread if the poster is in your peer group or not. So it is all meaningless.

-ERD50

I was answering a different question than you assume. You left that question off. It's in my last post. LateToFire got it and hopefully others.

 

[brett]

At times, I've found it a motivator (used productively). For example:

"Hey, my peer group has more money saved than I do. Can I achieve at least the median for my peer group? Can I exceed it a bit? At what cost to my other priorities?"

That's how we ended up FI in our 40s and ER'd shortly after. The problem comes when people get jealous or brag. Focusing on comparisons for self elevation, getting jealous or bragging is just non-productive.

In the environment that I grew up in people did not openly discuss their financial affairs.

Comparison was impossible. Especially since the basis of comparison could be very different from one to the other. Including the value of a pension for example.

I knew several people who are no longer with us. No one would have guessed at how wealthy each of them were. One drove an old pickup truck for years and lived in the same house for 50 plus years. Despite being an extremely successful real estate investor. He, nor his children would even think of comparing their 'net worth' to anyone because for them it was, and is, a very private matter. All of them only cared about what they had, not how much others had.

We are the same. Could care less if we are in the top 5 or the top 1 percentile of retirees or even where we were in our 40's. It was about where we were financially, where we wanted to be, and how we would reach that goal.

 

[ERD50]

I was answering a different question than you assume. You left that question off. It's in my last post. LateToFire got it and hopefully others.

I'm not sure what I missed? Your post was about comparisons, and I'm saying that comparisons w/o context are meaningless. Was there something else there?

-ERD50

 

[Sunset]

When I was a kid, I can still remember visiting my aunt and uncle in southern Louisiana and they didn't have electricity and still used an outhouse. I "think" they had an indoor water pump and I recall them using kerosene lamps for light. He was a farmer (share cropper) and a lot of their food came from what they could grow. But that was back in the late 50s. Impressive to me: they had 6 kids and several grew up to go on to college.

DW & I still use the family cabin each summer, just like it was 1920....

• Outhouse.
• No electricity.
• No plumbing, do have an indoor pump but often just skip it and get pails of water from the lake.
• Now use an e-kooler via solar (propane fridge died), but have the ice-boxes although I don't know anyone selling 50 lb blocks of ice.

I have been experimenting with solar, so this year used solar lights inside instead of kerosene or propane. It's cleaner and brighter

 

[Surewhitey]

What is the average for a 45 year old here as in FIRE?

7 years ago (@45) we were ~1.1m (1.35m in today's $). More important data is that our spending has been $45k-65k depending on the travel each year. Average being about $55k.

We're just over double that now...oh, & no debt.

My joy is less when I get 2 months like Aug-Sept, not comparing to others as I know everyone is in a different situation / location.

 

[Car-Guy]

DW & I still use the family cabin each summer, just like it was 1920....

• Outhouse.
• No electricity.
• No plumbing, do have an indoor pump but often just skip it and get pails of water from the lake.
• Now use an e-kooler via solar (propane fridge died), but have the ice-boxes although I don't know anyone selling 50 lb blocks of ice.

I have been experimenting with solar, so this year used solar lights inside instead of kerosene or propane. It's cleaner and brighter

To me that would be very much like "camping out" and assuming the summers aren't too hot where you are, it would be a nice get away from my POV. Plus, you know you can come back to civilization whenever you are ready. Sounds good to me for a nice vacation spot.