What is the average portfolio?

[marko]

Even a poll is meaningless. It's all relative to where you live, and your personal COL.

You could be living large in 1 zip code on 1.2M if you didn't care to travel much or had no expensive hobbies, or you could be almost lean fired in another on 3M.

Home upkeep and taxes, health insurance, can all vastly impact your budget and therefore the amount you need and want to retire comfortably.

So 2, 7 or 14million, eh, it's not a contest.

True, but I think OP is just trying to get a handle on whether the folks here are in the $1MM range, $8MM or $20MM range.

When I first arrived on this scene I was sort of expecting some internet billionaires or at least $100MM'aires and slowly came to the realization that it was mostly (sort of) average folks who made good in the $1-4MM range. (a bit of a disappointment I must say just kidding)

 

[Aerides]

True, but I think OP is just trying to get a handle on whether the folks here are in the $1MM range, $8MM or $20MM range.

When I first arrived on this scene I was sort of expecting some internet billionaires or at least $100MM'aires and slowly came to the realization that it was mostly (sort of) average folks who made good in the $1-4MM range. (a bit of a disappointment I must say just kidding)

Then the answer is yes. We have a lot of all of the above, and some a lot less, and a lot less, and probably more who aren't saying!

 

[Car-Guy]

Then the answer is yes. We have a lot of all of the above, and some a lot less, and a lot less, and probably more who aren't saying!

And some that fudge the numbers. (Maybe)

 

[Midpack]

True, but I think OP is just trying to get a handle on whether the folks here are in the $1MM range, $8MM or $20MM range.

When I first arrived on this scene I was sort of expecting some internet billionaires or at least $100MM'aires and slowly came to the realization that it was mostly (sort of) average folks who made good in the $1-4MM range. (a bit of a disappointment I must say just kidding)

Why would 9-10 figure net worth folks be here? I don't think they're worried about tax torpedos, IRMAA, NIIT, WR's, or where to retire etc.

 

[Car-Guy]

Why would 9-10 figure net worth folks be here? I don't think they're worried about tax torpedos, IRMAA, NIIT, WR's, or where to retire etc.

Even those well into 8 figures unless they want to see how poor folks live.

 

[Happyras]

Even those well into 8 figures unless they want to see how poor folks live.

It is fun to watch

 

[jazz4cash]

So many responses to a question that is unanswerable. No poll here is statistically sound. No way to measure average or mean accurately. No way to adjust for age, accumulators, distributors, etc . Not to mention we can’t even agree on what to include in a portfolio or definition of net worth. I assume the poll is skewed away from members with smaller portfolios .

 

[Car-Guy]

So many responses to a question that is unanswerable. No poll here is statistically sound. No way to measure average or mean accurately. No way to adjust for age, accumulators, distributors, etc . Not to mention we can’t even agree on what to include in a portfolio or definition of net worth. I assume the poll is skewed away from members with smaller portfolios .

Sounds like we could be congressmen and congresswomen.

 

[OldShooter]

All true but in the $3m tIRA example, you can get the tax obligation down pretty low if you only take out RMD's rather than taking your money out 1/2m yearly chunks, as an example.

Of course. My point was simply that the sticker price on a tIRA is not its value to the holder. Its value is reduced by future taxes, whatever they may be.

 

[Car-Guy]

 

[SloHan]

I was never concerned about keeping up with the Joneses in the neighborhood. I just did my own thing and happened to work out rather well.

 

[street]

Of course. My point was simply that the sticker price on a tIRA is not its value to the holder. Its value is reduced by future taxes, whatever they may be.

Yes, and so is money in a CD, MM or any form of investment that makes you income.

The only way it can be as accurate as it can be, is at the time you run the numbers at real time.

 

[Out-to-Lunch]

Why would 9-10 figure net worth folks be here? I don't think they're worried about tax torpedos, IRMAA, NIIT, WR's, or where to retire etc.

Clearly they are trying to determine when to take SS.

 

[DangerDad]

Yes, and not yet mentioned is tax status. $3M in a tIRA is probably closer to $2M spendable money. It feels really good to look at a big number and it's easy to forget that a big chunk of it is money that's invested for Uncle Sam.

Sorry, @Monterey298sc, I think comparisons will be meaningless given the hidden differences between people's answers.

Great points regarding age and tax status. Everyone knows that $3M Roth IRA is more valuable than $3M tIRA or 401k yet they are weighted equally in terms of “portfolio size.”
Another important factor is expenses or withdrawal rate.

A $3M portfolio may appear solid but if you’re withdrawing $150K per year it starts looking less…durable.

So yeah, when it comes to one’s portfolio (total investable assets) size matters. But without context (age, tax status and net expenses) it’s just a number.

 

[Car-Guy]

Great points regarding age and tax status. Everyone knows that $3M Roth IRA is more valuable than $3M tIRA or 401k yet they are weighted equally in terms of “portfolio size.”
Another important factor is expenses or withdrawal rate.

A $3M portfolio may appear solid but if you’re withdrawing $150K per year it starts looking less…durable.

So yeah, when it comes to one’s portfolio (total investable assets) size matters. But without context (age, tax status and net expenses) it’s just a number.

True, but, unfortunately some of us may have no choice when RMD's kick-in at 73. With a $3m 401k or tIRA earning "just" 5 to 6%yr, even when withdrawing 150k a year, it is going to last you a long time. Of course RMD's increase as time goes on, so there's that too.

 

[street]

Using the number 150K RMD and reinvesting that 150K is another option. I think there is so many different angles and directions that could happen.

 

[Car-Guy]

True, withdrawing it due to RMD's doesn't mean you are spending it!

 

[COcheesehead]

And some of us get to wait until 75 for RMDs.

 

[Car-Guy]

Dang youngsters.

 

[old medic]

True, but I think OP is just trying to get a handle on whether the folks here are in the $1MM range, $8MM or $20MM range.

Not even half that...

 

[marko]

Why would 9-10 figure net worth folks be here? I don't think they're worried about tax torpedos, IRMAA, NIIT, WR's, or where to retire etc.

What I meant was when I stumbled into this forum, all I saw was the "Financially Independent" part. Not knowing what or who was here, my assumption was that it was inhabited mostly by trust funders, internet billionaires, maybe a few old money Europeans (There are such sites...private introductions required for membership)

So, yes, based on the headline, I was expecting 9-10 -100 figure NW people when I first started lurking here and instead found a home for myself with a new appreciation for what financially independent actually means.

 

[ERD50]

Just looking to see if I am average or not.

Why?

-ERD50

 

[dobig]

Beware, comparison is the thief of joy! While interesting, all that matters is your individual circumstances (age, FI status, other income sources, expenses, etc). If I compared myself to this select group I'd probably feel very poor!



I am simultaneously one of the wealthiest and poorest people many of my acquaintances know. If they knew my NW, they'd likely think me "rich" but if they knew what I "earn" (my WD-even if I maxed it to a still safe rate) they'd think I was just getting by. I have no idea what they actually think and I don't care (but it would be amusing to see their guesses which I bet would be way off from reality).

Lol, so true. Whenever I'm feeling pretty good about our position a 10 minute read on here can make me sigh and think we haven't done enough or are way behind. I just have to remind myself of what it was like growing up in some pretty tough times and the despair of feeling like the mountain to climb was beyond reach to make me feel content with what we've achieved.

 

[dobig]

Why?

-ERD50

Self validation.


Personally, I see nothing wrong with that if someone has really earned it. If it makes you feel better about yourself all the more power to you.

 

[ERD50]

Why?

Self validation.


Personally, I see nothing wrong with that if someone has really earned it. If it makes you feel better about yourself all the more power to you.

How would that even work? What would make you feel better?

As others have pointed out, even the comparison is [-]pretty[/-] flat-out meaningless w/o a lot more context.

I happen to know a couple who could live pretty large by most standards with a near zero portfolio, they only really need enough in their checking account for cash flow to cover their monthly bills. They each have a 3% inflation adjusted pension - combined, about $200K a year (and that was some years back when I looked it up). And oh, that pension income is not taxed in IL.

So some individuals with near zero savings can live pretty much like someone who is conservative with a 3% WR on a $6.67 Million portfolio.

So in this thread $0 = $6,666,667 - it's all fuzzy/meaningless math w/o context.

-ERD50