Why were so many smart members of FIRE so clueless about their careers?

[heeyy_joe]

I studied hard and prepared well. But my chosen career of professional baseball player didn't pan out. So I got a job. Changed jobs on average of every five years to keep it interesting. Just tired of the routine, either time for a new job or ER.

It's really not a tough choice.

 

[ikubak]

I didn't start my career wanting to retire. I have always been a saver (Mr. Howell was my fav Gilligan's Island character as a kid ) and after years of saving and investing, I started to realize that what happened to my portfolio was starting to affect my well being more than my income. Then through this forum, I found out there were other people like me who had saved their money and now had options other than working until they croaked. So while I want to retire and move on, I didn't start out that way.

 

[Independent]

I enjoyed the work, I hated the job.

I usually found the productive stuff that I did (financial analysis) interesting, and occasionally fascinating. But, I couldn't live with one more, new, egotistical CEO telling us that everything his predecessors had done was garbage and he was our savior. (Kind of the same thing his immediate predecessor had said.)

There was a similar thread some years ago, where the question was "What finally made you walk out the door? Why that particular date, not sooner or later?" The most common response was that people just got tired of organizational BS of some sort.

 

[Lsbcal]

...
And, maybe more importantly, how did I make this post green?

Blue + Yellow = Green

 

[Texas Proud]

I think that you miss one of the main components of a job.... the boss....

I have done a number of different jobs in my life... all are in the field of accounting/finance...

When I first started, I did taxes... and worked a number of 100 hour weeks... decided to move on...

Had a good job that I liked.... liked the boss and coworkers.... but it failed...

Got a decent job, but still wanted something different.... boss knew it and I worked for a year before moving on...

Had a great job that I was really good at... also had a number of bosses... some were very good and I was happy... then they moved me to a group that was growing at over 100% a year... but they did not want to hire more people... they wanted you to work 70 or more hours... I did not... so even though I loved the job, crappy bosses made me move on...

Started a series of jobs... being moved around to fill needs... liked it a lot... but that ended when a power struggle at the top eliminated my bosses.... I was moved to a nice job...

But that had a number of bosses changing hands... some good, some bad... finally got one that knew very little and was intimidated by people who knew more than her... so she got rid of all of them (including me)....

Now I sit at a job that I can do in my sleep... even the CEO has told me they do not have enough for me to do.... but, I am at the end of my career and am happy with what I am doing... bored, but happy...


So, most of my discomfort in my jobs were directly related to my boss... not the job I was doing.... since I can not hire my boss, I have to live with who is assigned to me.... BTW, I used to keep up with how many I had.... I think I am past 30 bosses in my career....

 

[Sesq]

My best friend has been self employed as a not quite starving artist since he finished up art school (20 years). I graduated from grad school a couple years later and went corporate. So we are the classic passion vs $$ example.

We are both basically happy with our choices, even though they come with stresses.

 

[brewer12345]

I studied/trained for a career specialty that fits my abilities very well and has historically been very well paying. That was what I was focused on, and in the good times I made quite a lot of money as a result. However, I failed to account for:

- The amount of stress that goes with the career and the health effects of that stress.

- The fact that the times I have been happiest are when I ahve been outdoors. Being stuck in a cube has become agony.

- Bureaucratic bullcrap and nonsensical rules. Not only do I have to adhere to them, I now must enforce them.

- We only have so much time. I don't want to spend more of it miserble in a caube.

 

[martyp]

I followed my passion, science, and thoroughly enjoyed my 30 yr career. When I ER'd I thought about my w*rking yrs and decided that maybe 3 out of 30 yrs were bad yrs. I'm pretty satisfied with that. One of the bad 3 yrs was the last yr. I knew I was going to have to move onto a new project or job. When I realized I was FI I knew that ER was what I wanted to do. It was just a the next phase in my life. I have no regrets about my career or my choice of career. I am into my 3rd yr of ER and I love it.

 

[GTH2016]

My first eight to ten years in law enforcement were like living a big Jerry Springer episode...very dynamic. After 13 years I ended up on the wrong side of a Sheriff's election and spent the next three years assigned to the jail. Looking for exit strategies is what lead me to FIRE. Lucky for me I had a previous life with the same retirement system so I have 28 years in the system and will ER in about 44 months at 31 years. BTW my candidate won last November and although things are great at work, I have already shifted gears and changed my priorities.

 

[mwetter]

For me, the decision was that I no longer loved my job, (not sure I ever did). The job was a means to an end. The need was there to find something more that I could be more passionate to do/accomplish. Still not sure where that takes me, but the search should be fun. FI gives the ability to reach out to different areas and explore new possibilities. People have a way of changing over time, and hopefully growing into different roles and possibilities. I believe this is part of the maturation process that we all face. Maybe this search will come full circle? Who knows....

 

[Apex1]

Since high school, I set out for a job that provided for work/life balance. Couldn't have planned or been luckier.I now have an enviable career...... Health care specialist,solo practitioner (no politics but also no emerg coverage ), 28 hrs on 4 days with no call, 3 day weekends, very lucrative, the work if not passionate is tolerable. I've always believed in "work to live rather than live to work" . BUT I won't count my chickens before their hatched and anxiously counting down the days (hopefully 5 years) when I am FIRED and not DEPENDENT on my job to sustain my family and lifestlye.

 

[Redbugdave]

Aw heck. That's an easy one. What person would choose getting paid to not-work over getting paid to work?

After awhile you learn it's better to invest and have control over your life and environment than running an endless rat race and losing sight of what life is really about. Not all of us can be astronauts.

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

I could have done better, but I don't mind.
It just sorta wasted my precious time.
Don't think twice, it's all right.

 

[HFWR]

Something went south. A lot of you folks obviously studied hard, made all kinds of sacrifices, maybe even went to graduate school so you could work in your chosen profession. And, now, many of you are counting the days, months, years, or decades looking for the time you can quit the job you hate. Now, I understand that many of you just want to retire early to get on with your lives, but what about the others of you? What happened? What didn’t you account for?

My "career" choice turned out to be close to ideal for my skill set and interests, but thirty years later, after the corporate BS increased exponentially, after being right-sized, down-sized, and out-sized, after going from "valued" member of the "team" to a line item on the budget that needed cutting, and, quite frankly, being shiftless, lazy, and HA/ADD, I just have better things to do with myself than show up for more...

And, maybe more importantly, how did I make this post green?

Green with envy?

 

[rbmrtn]

Like anything in life a job changes over time. Also within any chosen field there are many job positions. Sometimes in a small field you get get stuck in "position" and can't move to another position. After many reorgs, downsizings, mergers etc things changed and it lost its amusement value.

 

[Bestwifeever]

That never-retirement.org forum wants to know what the heck redduck is talking about!

 

[FUEGO]

I don't really understand the question OP. I think my career has gone splendidly well. A job is instrumentally valuable to me, and not intrinsically valuable. Getting further education and experience to increase the earnings available at a job was simply instrumentally valuable as well. The job pays amply to provide for myself and my family, and leaves a generous surplus each month to allow accumulation of capital, from which we intend to live in perpetuity.

 

[haha]

we intend to live in perpetuity.

Now I am impressed!

 

[Midpack]

OP: I infer from your phrasing that you are saying that our poor choice of careers is the reason that we want to retire early and that if we had just chosen better we would not be counting the days to ER.

Hogwash! Nothing went wrong, went south, etc. It was A-OK.

+1. I really enjoyed my career for the first 33 years, so nothing went wrong. I worked 60-80 hours/week for the first 20 something years, not because I had to, because I wanted to (try to make a difference and get ahead/reach FI). And even when I retired after 35 years, I didn't hate it, I miss the broad personal interaction and the satisfaction of continual improvement. Some of the Corp politics had gotten a little tiresome, but mostly that became a game to play, and it actually fun at times (some not) to find ways to work through/around the (mostly ego driven) nonsense. I'd just run out of challenges in that position and wasn't willing to relocate for the next promotion, so time to move on - life is short. Thought I'd try retirement, and if that doesn't work out, a second career. I was lucky when all is said and done...

 

[MuirWannabe]

Quote:
Originally Posted by FUEGO
we intend to live in perpetuity.

Now I am impressed!

This can play hell with a SWR.

 

[Onward]

looking for the time you can quit the job you hate

I think the OP's question is a good one, and it's one I ask myself all the time, especially while reading these forums.

I do believe most Americans (yes 50%+) hate their jobs and would give almost anything to get free and still meet their needs and obligations. This observation is based on what I have witnessed over 30+ years at dozens of companies all over the U.S. I understand you may see it differently, but I have to call it as I see it.

I'm a big believer in free markets, including a free labor market, so why the sorry state of affairs? This is what I think:

1. College is a big, illusion-dispensing bubble. Animal House ain't the real world. Not even close. Even if you didn't live in Animal House, the nature of higher education is such that it bears absolutely no relation to the day-in, day-out experience of going to a real workplace full of real coworkers and real superiors.

2. Work isn't about work. It's mostly about dealing with difficult, and sometimes seriously deranged or vindictive people. Being a teacher isn't about teaching. It's mostly about dealing with difficult students, parents, and admins. Being a dentist isn't about dentistry. It's mostly about dealing with difficult patients, employees, and insurance companies.

3. Positions of power, including corporate management, attract flawed personalities.

4. Positions of power, including management, manufacture flawed personalities.

5. Workplaces change. The workplace-experience you love today may become the one you despise tomorrow. There is absolutely no way to know when or if this will happen, although the longer you are there, the more likely you are to experience it.

6. People change. That goes for your co-workers and bosses (see 5, above), but also for you. Even if you love your J*b today, your interests and tolerance levels are likely to change with time, resulting in a severe mismatch between you and your j*b/career.

7. Changing j*bs doesn't help. Eventually you realize that different workplaces are just different manifestations of the same phenomena.

8. Our modern society is like a pressure-cooker or a meat grinder. Eventually you sense your mortality and want a few gasps of freedom before you go. For me, that's what FIRE is about.

 

[frayne]

I think the OP's question is a good one, and it's one I ask myself all the time, especially while reading these forums.

I do believe most Americans (yes 50%+) hate their jobs and would give almost anything to get free and still meet their needs and obligations. This observation is based on what I have witnessed over 30+ years at dozens of companies all over the U.S. I understand you may see it differently, but I have to call it as I see it.

I'm a big believer in free markets, including a free labor market, so why the sorry state of affairs? This is what I think:

1. College is a big, illusion-dispensing bubble. Animal House ain't the real world. Not even close. Even if you didn't live in Animal House, the nature of higher education is such that it bears absolutely no relation to the day-in, day-out experience of going to a real workplace full of real coworkers and real superiors.

2. Work isn't about work. It's mostly about dealing with difficult, and sometimes seriously deranged or vindictive people. Being a teacher isn't about teaching. It's mostly about dealing with difficult students, parents, and admins. Being a dentist isn't about dentistry. It's mostly about dealing with difficult patients, employees, and insurance companies.

3. Positions of power, including corporate management, attract flawed personalities.

4. Positions of power, including management, manufacture flawed personalities.

5. Workplaces change. The workplace-experience you love today may become the one you despise tomorrow. There is absolutely no way to know when or if this will happen, although the longer you are there, the more likely you are to experience it.

6. People change. That goes for your co-workers and bosses (see 5, above), but also for you. Even if you love your J*b today, your interests and tolerance levels are likely to change with time, resulting in a severe mismatch between you and your j*b/career.

7. Changing j*bs doesn't help. Eventually you realize that different workplaces are just different manifestations of the same phenomena.

8. Our modern society is like a pressure-cooker or a meat grinder. Eventually you sense your mortality and want a few gasps of freedom before you go. For me, that's what FIRE is about.

BINGO Squared !

 

[ChainsBeGone]

Simple answer: TPS reports. (See the movie Office Space if you don't know what this is.) I'd have been more likely to stay longer if my day wasn't dominated by doing TPS reports. The funniest part is being asked about being bored in retirement. How could I be any more bored than spending a day filling out TPS reports? I suspect a lot of people have their own version of TPS reports.

This made me stop and chuckle. Just today at work I was cleaning out my files, both in my desk and email. Reams and reams of power point and excel documents, that seemed so important and consumed so much of my time and the time of many others, and in retrospect most of it was just churning. So, these files were turned into confetti by the industrial shredder, and I could feel the stress of burdens past lighten almost in direct correlation to the decreasing pile of "TPS" reports that I spent feeding into the shredder all afternoon.

 

[timwalsh300]

I recall a memory from when I was 12 years old: Baseball was my life, and I'd spend all day swinging a bat or throwing a ball to improve my skills. I took things very seriously, and when I had a bad game it would crush my soul. After one such game an adult tried telling me that I should just have fun and stop taking things so seriously. I responded with, "I'm taking it seriously and working hard now so that I won't have to work hard later." I truly thought I'd get drafted and be set for life by the age of 22. That, and my natural tendency to save (evoking strong feelings of security for me), probably means that I've always wanted to FIRE.

In my later teens (after giving up on baseball) I decided that money didn't matter as much as "doing something of great significance," and I made choices leading to my current profession. Thankfully the money is better than I realized since the feelings of "doing something of great significance" are increasingly uncommon. I don't think I was clueless about my career choice but I guess I had some unrealistic expectations. I originally came to this forum when I saw that FIRE could be a real possibility in the future, and it becomes a more important goal as I'm worn down by the day-to-day grind.

Tim

 

[Keim]

I like work. I like having the option to quit even more.