Giving up US citizenship

I might travel the world and not come back, but give up my citizenship? Not on your life. That is only for the uber-rich, not me.

Once when I was traveling, a very old border control officer handed my passport back and said very quietly, "You are very lucky." All I could think of was to say "I know" and smile back.
 
One thing I don't understand is why people take it so personally when someone decides to renounce their US citizenship. Their doing so does not hurt you in any way so why the vitriol? It seems as if many take it as a slight upon the US when someone renounces their US citizenship.
 
People renounce their citizenship for all types of reasons. They do what is best for them so I say 'best of luck'.

I will never renounce my US citizenship. I am fortunate to be very happy where I am and feel blessed every day of my life. :)
 
My uncle went over to Japan in 1945 and married a local woman. He stayed on they had three kids who were born and raised there. He has them give up their US citizenship since he didn't want them drafted for the Vietnam War. It made sense for them.

I am stuck with dual citizenship with Iran, which I can only renounce for a very large fee.
 
Never!

I love to visit other places... but I would not want to be there permanently.

Well... I suppose the exception might be canuck land (maybe). Hey aren't they the 51st state anyway?

Cheers Y'all :D
 
One thing I don't understand is why people take it so personally when someone decides to renounce their US citizenship. Their doing so does not hurt you in any way so why the vitriol? It seems as if many take it as a slight upon the US when someone renounces their US citizenship.

Why? It is a slap in the face to our forefathers who struggled to make this country independent and prosperous, our soldiers who have died protecting our freedoms, and to our fellow citizens who work every day to pay for our government, our infrastructure, our schools, social services, security, etc. so that we can all maintain a high standard of living.

Most people in the world would die (and many have) for a chance to trade places with many of the selfish, ungrateful loudmouths (Sean Penn, Alec Baldwin, Barbra Streisand, et al..) who publicly denigrate this country with their mouths full, while living in unparalled luxury, comfort and safety here.

Yeah, I do take it as a slight on the USA. But maybe that's just me. :(
 
Why? It is a slap in the face to our forefathers who struggled to make this country independent and prosperous, our soldiers who have died protecting our freedoms, and to our fellow citizens who work every day to pay for our government, our infrastructure, our schools, social services, security, etc. so that we can all maintain a high standard of living.

Most people in the world would die (and many have) for a chance to trade places with many of the selfish, ungrateful loudmouths (Sean Penn, Alec Baldwin, Barbra Streisand, et al..) who publicly denigrate this country with their mouths full, while living in unparalled luxury, comfort and safety here.

Yeah, I do take it as a slight on the USA. But maybe that's just me. :(

See to me you are making it something personal, someone's reasons for giving up their citizenship may be totally unrelated to any of the things you mention. As for those Hollywood types, I think they were beautifully characterised in Team America, they blather on and threaten to leave if their candidate does not win, but none of them ever seem to go.

Not everyone who gives up their US citizenship would be doing it to avoid taxes. For some, its just a case they were born in a place where they would prefer not to be. For example, you get people who are complete Francophiles, that's where they desire to be, that is where there heart belongs. I say good on them for following their heart, don't stay American or Australian or Canadian if your deepest desire is to be French and you have the opportunity to gain the piece of paper that allows you to say you are.
 
Yeah, I do take it as a slight on the USA. But maybe that's just me. :(
No...it's not just you. It bothers me too when US citizens yak away about what is wrong with our country, but I can tune them out and go on with my day.

Now, these same US citizens that are disgruntled can renounce their citizenship and move elsewhere...I feel the same in my previous post. I will say, "best of luck" as I wave goodbye. :)
 
Who's to say which country is the best one to live in? Not I, but I have no reason to not want to live here--no job situation taking me anywhere, no romance with someone from another country, no persecution taking place where I live.

There is some truth in sticking with the devil you know, however, whether it's the US, China, France, or the Duchy of Grand Fenwick, vs. the grass being greener somewhere else (how's that for mixing metaphors :) ). Not to mention "bloom where you're planted."
 
See to me you are making it something personal, someone's reasons for giving up their citizenship may be totally unrelated to any of the things you mention. As for those Hollywood types, I think they were beautifully characterised in Team America, they blather on and threaten to leave if their candidate does not win, but none of them ever seem to go.

Not everyone who gives up their US citizenship would be doing it to avoid taxes. For some, its just a case they were born in a place where they would prefer not to be. For example, you get people who are complete Francophiles, that's where they desire to be, that is where there heart belongs. I say good on them for following their heart, don't stay American or Australian or Canadian if your deepest desire is to be French and you have the opportunity to gain the piece of paper that allows you to say you are.

Nothing personal intended or implied. :flowers:

As for your theoretical Francophile, all I can say is- au revoir, les allers simples sont meilleur marché...;)
 
Do you think your family members would take offense if you denounced them? Why should they? Maybe you just feel like you were just born into a family that you really don't fit into.

I would say that if you dont get along with or feel like you dont fit in with your family, that you should spend less time with them. But to openly denounce them and state that you want nothing to do with them and and dislike them so much that you are willing to give up every benefit that comes with being part of the family (not sure what that would be but you get the point), that would really feel like a slap in the face to them.

Same thing when someone denounces their citizenship.

Personally, I fit into and get along much better with my wifes family than my own, but I would never denounce my own family.
 
I too am not sure why some have such excessive passion on this topic. Some folks have so much, but are so greedy, and have no other values in their life that compare with greed, and so choose to change citizenship in order to enjoy the benefits of the developed world without paying for them. So be it. Who cares? The time I’ve spent on this thread exceeds the total time I’ve spent contemplating this subject over the past decade.

Funny nobody has brought up the US companies that do this all the time, usually for the same reasons.

Edward Everett Hale wrote an excellent short story in 1863 titled “The Man Without a Country”. I enjoyed this story as a young boy, this thread made me remember. Plot summary from Wikipedia
The protagonist of the story is a young United States Army lieutenant named Philip Nolan, who develops a friendship with the visiting Aaron Burr. When Burr is tried for treason (historically this occurred in 1807), Nolan is tried as an accomplice. During his testimony, Nolan bitterly renounces his nation, angrily shouting "Damn the United States! I wish I may never hear of the United States again!" Upon conviction, the judge icily grants Nolan his wish: he is to spend the rest of his life on warships of the United States Navy, in exile, with no right ever again to set foot on U.S. soil, and with explicit orders that no one shall ever mention his country to him again.
The sentence is carried out to the letter. For the rest of his life, Nolan is transported from ship to ship, living out his life as a prisoner on the high seas, never once being allowed back in a home port. None of the sailors in whose custody Nolan remains are allowed to speak to him about the U.S., and his newspapers are censored. Nolan is unrepentant at first, but over the years becomes sadder and wiser, and desperate for news. One day he says to a young officer, as he is being rowed over to another ship on which he is to be held, he beseeches a young sailor never to make the same mistake he made, and to: "Remember, boy, that behind all these men..., behind officers and government, and people even, there is the Country Herself, your Country, and that you belong to her as you belong to your own mother. Stand by her, boy, as you would stand by your mother...!"
Deprived of a homeland, Nolan slowly and painfully learns the true worth of his country. He misses it more than his friends or family, more than art or music or love or nature. Without it, he is nothing. Dying, he shows his room to an officer named Danforth; it is "a little shrine" of patriotism. The Stars and Stripes are draped around a picture of George Washington. Over his bed, Nolan has painted an eagle, with lightning "blazing from his beak" and claws grasping the globe. At the foot of his bed is a dated map of the old territories. Nolan smiles, "Here, you see, I have a country!" Nolan dies content after Danforth finally tells him all that has happened to the U.S. since his sentence was imposed. Nolan asks him to have them bury him in the sea and have a gravestone placed in memory of him, at Fort Adams or at Orleans.
 
I too am not sure why some have such excessive passion on this topic.

I find it a little hard to understand also. Renounce citizenship is not the same as denounce America. Even if it were, who thinks that America is his family? Yecch!

People would be happier if they saved their passion for the bedroom, and realized that much else is just business.

Ha
 
I find it a little hard to understand also. Renounce citizenship is not the same as denounce America. Even if it were, who thinks that America is his family? Yecch!
Exactly! IMO whether someone chooses to no longer be a US citizen - that is their choice and non of my business. It is not denouncing the US or showing any lack of respect toward the US.

People would be happier if they saved their passion for the bedroom, and realized that much else is just business.

Ha
That is wonderful advice!

Audrey
 
I find it a little hard to understand also. Renounce citizenship is not the same as denounce America. Even if it were, who thinks that America is his family? Yecch!

People would be happier if they saved their passion for the bedroom, and realized that much else is just business.

Ha
Very well said.
 
If you renounce your US citizenship and then find yourself being caned in Singapore for dancing on a Sunday or whatever other ridiculous laws some countries have, dont come crying to the US to help you.
 
If you renounce your US citizenship and then find yourself being caned in Singapore for dancing on a Sunday or whatever other ridiculous laws some countries have, dont come crying to the US to help you.
And why do you think someone would?

Audrey
 
This thread is about people who renounce their US citizenship to avoid paying taxes because they have decided to live abroad. Most countries do not tax their citizens if they live abroad and are not therefore a burden on the state.

At the start of the thread I was thinking that US tax law is very draconian in this respect, but as the thread progressed I think I am changing my view particularly since reading about one of the stories in the recent elections in the UK where, not only do many rich folks avoid a lot of taxes by "living abroad", they are still voting, and even making laws.

The $ billionaire, Lord Ashcroft is a prime example. He is deputy chairman of the Tory party, sits in the House of Lords, debates and votes on government bills, and has been considered "non domicile" for tax purposes for many years.

Lord Ashcroft reveals: I am a non-dom | Politics | guardian.co.uk

Apparently there are other British "non-doms" who quite legally serve in parliament.

So, I am now thinking the USA is right to tax its citizens wherever they live.
 
This thread is about people who renounce their US citizenship to avoid paying taxes because they have decided to live abroad. Most countries do not tax their citizens if they live abroad and are not therefore a burden on the state.

At the start of the thread I was thinking that US tax law is very draconian in this respect, but as the thread progressed I think I am changing my view particularly since reading about one of the stories in the recent elections in the UK where, not only do many rich folks avoid a lot of taxes by "living abroad", they are still voting, and even making laws.

The $ billionaire, Lord Ashcroft is a prime example. He is deputy chairman of the Tory party, sits in the House of Lords, debates and votes on government bills, and has been considered "non domicile" for tax purposes for many years.

Lord Ashcroft reveals: I am a non-dom | Politics | guardian.co.uk

Apparently there are other British "non-doms" who quite legally serve in parliament.

So, I am now thinking the USA is right to tax its citizens wherever they live.


I think there is a difference in what the UK does and what the US does...

IIANM (is this a real one:confused: if I am not mistaken...)... the UK taxes income earned in the UK... so even if you are a non dom you should pay taxes on your UK income... If you are a non dom, how much of the basic services do you use:confused: You are not riding on the trains, using the tube, being serviced by the local trash collectors, receiving medical treatment... now, you are using the Foreign Office (or whatever the correct one is) if you get into trouble in another country...

In the US... you are taxed on your worldwide income... but do get a break if you have earned income overseas... but that is if you are there long enough... so if you have an interest bearing account in Switzerland, you pay taxes on that income in the US... even if you live in Switzerland (or the UK, or Japan etc.)... why:confused:

I am not using the majority of the services that taxes support... I am using the military and the State Department... but not much else..

PS... I am excluding SS as that is supposed to have been paid with work in the US... so it is not paid by general taxes...
 
I think there is a difference in what the UK does and what the US does...

IIANM (is this a real one:confused: if I am not mistaken...)... the UK taxes income earned in the UK... so even if you are a non dom you should pay taxes on your UK income... If you are a non dom, how much of the basic services do you use:confused: You are not riding on the trains, using the tube, being serviced by the local trash collectors, receiving medical treatment... now, you are using the Foreign Office (or whatever the correct one is) if you get into trouble in another country...

In the US... you are taxed on your worldwide income... but do get a break if you have earned income overseas... but that is if you are there long enough... so if you have an interest bearing account in Switzerland, you pay taxes on that income in the US... even if you live in Switzerland (or the UK, or Japan etc.)... why:confused:

I am not using the majority of the services that taxes support... I am using the military and the State Department... but not much else..

PS... I am excluding SS as that is supposed to have been paid with work in the US... so it is not paid by general taxes...

IBYAC (I Believe You Are Correct), which is why pop stars and other mega rich folks can move abroad and move their fortunes to foreign banks to avoid UK taxes.

For the first few years of working in the USA part of my salary was paid out of the UK but because I was living in the USA I did not pay any UK income tax on that money - I paid US tax on my UK earnings. Today I still get income from the UK from pensions from a UK company and interest from a bank account. Again, I don't pay UK income tax on that as I pay US tax even though that income comes from UK businesses. I'm not sure what the situation would be if I earned money from a job in the UK while being a resident here. e.g. I could easily be a telecommuter manning an IT help desk, or a journalist writing columns for a UK newspaper.
 
This thread is about people who renounce their US citizenship to avoid paying taxes because they have decided to live abroad. Most countries do not tax their citizens if they live abroad and are not therefore a burden on the state.

At the start of the thread I was thinking that US tax law is very draconian in this respect, but as the thread progressed I think I am changing my view particularly since reading about one of the stories in the recent elections in the UK where, not only do many rich folks avoid a lot of taxes by "living abroad", they are still voting, and even making laws.

The $ billionaire, Lord Ashcroft is a prime example. He is deputy chairman of the Tory party, sits in the House of Lords, debates and votes on government bills, and has been considered "non domicile" for tax purposes for many years.

Lord Ashcroft reveals: I am a non-dom | Politics | guardian.co.uk

Apparently there are other British "non-doms" who quite legally serve in parliament.

So, I am now thinking the USA is right to tax its citizens wherever they live.
After spending 25 years working abroad and paying taxes to two countries I do not have any issue with being taxed on worldwide income as long as one is creditable to the other (no net dual taxation). My view is tax it all or tax none of it, anything in-between is a form of tax relief or loophole for an influential constituent. Not taxing non-domestic income is a giant loophole that favors the few and invites evasion.

This applies to business as well.

Lord Ashcroft is an example of how political parties subjugate ideology and core values for financial support. Similar examples in US politics are too numerous to list.
 
IBYAC (I Believe You Are Correct), which is why pop stars and other mega rich folks can move abroad and move their fortunes to foreign banks to avoid UK taxes.

For the first few years of working in the USA part of my salary was paid out of the UK but because I was living in the USA I did not pay any UK income tax on that money - I paid US tax on my UK earnings. Today I still get income from the UK from pensions from a UK company and interest from a bank account. Again, I don't pay UK income tax on that as I pay US tax even though that income comes from UK businesses. I'm not sure what the situation would be if I earned money from a job in the UK while being a resident here. e.g. I could easily be a telecommuter manning an IT help desk, or a journalist writing columns for a UK newspaper.

Not sure.... but why would your UK earning not be taxed in the UK:confused:

But... again... reaching back in my memory... I don't think the UK taxes cap gains and possibly some other items... maybe this is what you are receiving.


I have not looked into this... but I do believe that if you are not a citizen you do not have to pay taxes on your income earned elsewhere... now, there might be something in there that says you can not bring it into the US... I did taxes for 4 years a LONG time ago... and I never did a tax return on someone with a green card that did not get all their income from the US... so no experience here...
 
Not sure.... but why would your UK earning not be taxed in the UK:confused:

But... again... reaching back in my memory... I don't think the UK taxes cap gains and possibly some other items... maybe this is what you are receiving.


I have not looked into this... but I do believe that if you are not a citizen you do not have to pay taxes on your income earned elsewhere... now, there might be something in there that says you can not bring it into the US... I did taxes for 4 years a LONG time ago... and I never did a tax return on someone with a green card that did not get all their income from the US... so no experience here...

I can correct you on that one. We are resident aliens in the US and we pay tax on our worldwide income to the IRS. It's why some choose to stay on green cards rather than do citizenship, when they are done they return the green card and sever ties with the US.
 
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