How much notice did you (should I) give?

[Tom52]

I don't mind my job so much and the boss in normally O.K. to work for but I don't trust the company as far as I could throw them. There has not been a voluntary retirement from this place in over ten years because the older employees are "forced out".

I plan to hang on until after my bonus hits my bank account next April 15. If they give me a fair bonus for 2013 I will give them 2.5 months notice. If they screw me over (announced recently that next year's bonus is being calculated using a new, as yet unspecified new formula), I will probably give them 1.5 months notice and burn up some vacation time to boot.

I don't dare mention a potential retirement date before the bonus or I know they will short change me.

 

[Idnar7]

You are assuming that they will want to replace yourself with a clone of you. That might not be the case. When they selected my replacement he was the opposite of me. I was very hands-on. He was an administrator. Turns out management wanted to have contract workers do the hands on and the administrator administrate. Didn't do any knowledge transfer at all.

 

[Bigal50]

I gave three months notice. The boss was happy, but something unexpected happened. My duties were transferred to several employees and I had nothing to do for 3 months. The older employees quickly absorbed the extra work, but the bulk of my work fell on someone with 6 months experience out of college. She didn't get that she needed to ask a ton of questions until the last 2 weeks when all I wanted to do was run around and say goodbye.

I didn't sign anything until 2 weeks before the day, so they couldn't start the hiring search.

So if I had it to do over again I would have given them 2 weeks just to keep from being bored. The goodbye process dragged on as well.

If you plan to come back as a consultant, I would give the at least a month. 2 weeks is kinda standard, but in my opinion a little rude if you know this much in advance.

 

[travelover]

Or you could bring the issue up in a hypothetical discussion.

" Let's say that I have a friend that wants to retire....."

 

[ChocoKitty]

I gave my employer 4 weeks' notice today, which is 2 more weeks than I would have except my employment contract requires the longer notice if I want to be paid for my unused vacation time.

The longest notice I've given is 5 weeks at Megacorp out of respect for my awesome boss. After I left, they divided the work among other people and waited over a year before hiring my replacement. I didn't kid myself into thinking I was that important, so it was no surprise. My predecessor had 30 years with the company, and after he was gone a week, it was like he'd never been there. I saw this repeatedly as long-timers retired, so I knew my departure would affect Megacorp even less.

 

[pb4uski]

I signaled that I would be retiring about 5 years out. One morning at breakfast with my boss (who I had a great relationship with) shortly after I turned 50 he casually asked me what I was thinking about in terms of retiring (he asked it more as a friend as a boss so I wasn't offended in the least). I told him zero to 5 years, with a smile and we had a good laugh. I ended up staying 6 years after that, in part due to the recession and the fact that I wanted to get down to one house before ER.

I was also in a niche role, and while they sometimes told me they wouldn't know what to do without me, I knew better and told them that they had a bunch of smart people and I knew they would be fine once I left.

Once our home was sold, I indicated that I planned to leave but that I was flexible in when in that it was important to me that I not leave them in a bad spot. I left a few month later after they had internalized the fact that I was leaving and we left the possibility of some consulting open if it was needed. They've never called and that is fine with me - I guess I was right that they would figure it out.

It worked out well and we were all happy with the outcome.

Perhaps when you get 12 months out you can simply frame it that you plan to leave but want to work with them on a transition plan that does not leave them in the lurch and that you can all be happy about.

Have you considered transitioning to part time or some post retirement consulting with them? If so, that might be part of the transition plan but as others have advised, don't waver - these organizations will take all you are willing to give so you need to set boundaries and stick to them.

 

[Meadbh]

About a decade prior to ER, I was fortunate to have an opportunity to start a new functional unit and to design my own job description as well as the business plan. From day one I worked with senior management to make sure they understood the importance of building and transferring organizational knowledge. Over the years we were fortunate to be able to mentor and inspire many bright young people in the niche. I was contractually obliged to give 90 days' notice and gave 120 days. They insisted on 150 days. It took them another year to fill my position. Inevitably, my successor brings a different perspective and approach to the work. That's just how it is.

 

[lhamo]

In my previous position I gave two months notice, which turned out to be too much. I had already more or less wrapped up the two major projects I was working on when I gave notice, so the rest of the time was spent documenting my 7 years of work for my then "boss" -- someone they had hired in over my head without any background or qualifications and whose job I was basically doing on his behalf while he tweaked with spreadsheets. It was good for our bank account to have those extra two months of paychecks to pad the nest egg with, but in hindsight I should have given 2-4 weeks notice max. I knew they wouldn't be hiring anyone to fill my position, so there really wasn't any need to stay on that long except for the extra pay.

My boss, who is at the country director level in our organization, just resigned this week. His last day is Sept. 30. He's encouraging me to apply for his position, which I intend to do. I think part of the reason he has given such long notice is to help facilitate my smooth transition into the position, or, if they find someone with better qualifications, ensure that I am at least moved up to Deputy Country Director. He's a mensch and I'm going to miss him, but I'm excited about the possibilities of this new opportunity. We're more or less FI at this point unless the Beijing property market tanks, so I am not afraid to take on the challenge of a more senior role. If I enjoy/excel at it, I'll do it for several years and our FI position will be even stronger. If I don't enjoy it, we can consider FIREing.

If anybody has suggestions about how to position yourself for success as an inside candidate for a major promotion, I'd love to hear them. I have a strong reputation within our organization and with our funders, and I think I have a very good shot at this, but want to do whatever I can to maximize my chances of success.

 

[Tree-dweller]

I gave 9 months (informal) and 7 months (formal) notice as a courtesy to my colleagues so there would be ample time to hire and train my replacement - who was hired 2 weeks before I left. C'est la vie.

 

[Katsmeow]

The first time I gave about 3 months notice. I needed to do that basically so that I wouldn't be assigned to some new ongoing matters that were just starting up. However, I ended up being asked to stay on in a very reduced hours role (1 day of work a week, working on only certain specified type of work).

So...3 years later...I'm still there, now working 2 days a week. I am pondering when to give notice to completely retire. I had thought about doing it at the end of this month, but I could end up doing it earlier if I was called upon to work on anything I didn't really want to work on.

This time there isn't much need for any transition since I've been doing work where I'm not the only person working on anything so there is always one or more other people who already know what is going on. I could probably leave on 1 day's notice without harming any transition. That said, when I give notice I'm sure we'll talk about it and work something out. It will probably be a week or two depending on what my employer wants.

 

[cranberryjoe]

I was planning to give 3 months notice, but due to unexpected circumstances I ended up giving 4 1/2 months. I wanted to allow plenty of transition time to train others to take over my various roles. Anything less than 3 months seemed discourteous since I'm the only one who performs certain critical tasks and I didn't want to leave the team up the creek. Besides, I have around 4 weeks of vacation I can use before I leave, so that makes even less transition time.

 

[kcowan]

I gave 2 months notice after 26 years and 2 weeks notice after 5 years. The thing is that management will react to whatever crisis is presented to them. Plus if you are there for too long, you will become overripe.

 

[sengsational]

Working is like a poker game: if you haven't figured out who the sucker is in the first ten minutes, it is you. You owe them nothing. You are leaving to go out and die, plain and simple. If management has failed to plan for certain disruptions such as unplanned vacancies, T.S.

That's where I am. I asked for some trivial something from my first megacorp and my boss at the time gave me a "the company doesn't owe you anything - we're even at every paycheck" speech. Ok, great lesson because it cuts both ways.

But my plan is not to "give notice" per say, but rather tell them my requirements for continued employment, which is 10 weeks unpaid vacation, in addition to the measly 2 paid weeks they gave me 3 years ago when I hired on (this was despite hard negotiations on my part). They, of course, will say "no", but then they're leaving me as much as I'm leaving them, hehe.

 

[NanoSour]

I find that over-achievers internally believe they are worth more than they are to the Megacorp. Truth is your departure isn't even a blip on the screen. Once you give notice, whether long or short, they will just move on without you.

For the record, I gave 8 weeks. I was asked to finish up one small project. Whether I do or not is completely up to me.

 

[LoneAspen]

After being in the rat race for almost 30 years now, in a variety of big MegaCorps and small startups, I've become very mercenary about jobs.

My loyalty never extends past the next paycheck. I figure my employer could tap me on the shoulder and let me go on a moment's notice, so I really don't have any loyalty back except for what I'm willing to sell them two weeks at a time.

I've never given more than two weeks notice, and probably never would. In the past, it's always because I've got another job to go to, and my mind's already made up I'm leaving, so why prolong it.

And when I decide to retire, I've already made up my mind about that, too, in the sense I now value my time more important than the money, so why prolong it. I won't retire until I've fully "cashed out" of all my financial positions within the company anyway, so when I do decide to walk out the door, I won't have a vested financial interest in their continue success, nor failure, anyway.

So for me...two weeks. But it's also a very personal decision. A lot of people are going to have a continued financial interest, or personal relationships they want to preserve, or more a sense of loyalty than I do. So I can see where many people would give longer notice. In the end, you have to do what you feel is right for your situation.

 

[Redbugdave]

I plan on going next January. I let the boss know a few months ago. Which means about a year's notice. We are going to have a rash of retirements coming up...about 1/4 of the staff. All will be retiring in less than a 2 year period in a place that has not had any real turnover in more than 10 years.

By giving a notice so far in advance gives me and the boss time to watch the players left on the stage do their acts. It's been a good career. If I harbored ill will, I would have kept quiet and dropped a short notice. But, I don't have any hard feelings. I just want to get on with my life and things go smoothly for the one's that are left.

I am beginning to feel liberated knowing this will soon be just a memory and a new exciting chapter is about to open. And it's nice to be in the group that is bailing and leaving the victims behind. I know they are envious. Red Rover, Red Rover...send Dave on over...Woo Hooo!

 

[ER Eddie]

I vote for Friday morning of your last day. And spend the rest of Friday in HR making out the papers.

IMHO, you do have a strange view of your importance. A company is a machine to make money for somebody--and it is probably not you. It is not your family.

Working is like a poker game: if you haven't figured out who the sucker is in the first ten minutes, it is you. You owe them nothing.

I disagree. I have long-term friendships with some of these people. They have given me a lot of support and showed me a lot of kindness over the years. They have had my back; they have stood beside me when I needed them to; and they have helped me to grow as both a person and a professional. They have placed a lot of faith and confidence in me. I can't just say "F. you, I'm outta here." I owe them some notice, some advance warning, so they can make some adjustments to my leaving. I wouldn't want to end things in the abrupt way you're suggesting. It would leave a bad taste in my mouth. It wouldn't seem professional to me. I'd feel like I was being a d*ck to people I like and feel grateful toward.

I thought they would have a hard time replacing me, but what they did was to split up my job among several others, including one who was new and had nothing yet to do. ... Remember, in a good, effective organization nobody is indispensible.

I wonder if some people took my remark about my irreplaceability seriously. Humor gets lost on the internet sometimes. I meant the remark as a joke, tongue in cheek. I know I'm not irreplaceable. I don't harbor any illusions about that. I do have an odd, rather "niche" job, especially the way it is set up in my current workplace -- but there are several ways they could go about transferring the responsibility to someone(s) else.

A few previous discussions...

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f26/how-much-notice-did-you-give-to-er-17384.html
http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f27/how-much-notice-is-enough-33322.html
http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f27/way-too-much-notice-drat-55013-2.html
http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f26/6-or-9-months-notice-58494.html
http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f29/request-input-on-giving-my-retirement-notice-64782.html

Thank you, I'll read those threads for ideas, too.

Look at it another way. Has your company put any effort into succession planning? Have they sought out talented people, ensured that they have the required training, and encouraged you to mentor them? If not, that is their problem, not yours. Given that you have a niche function, give them the six months' notice, but once you have done so, do not waver.

No, the company really has not made much of an effort to arrange for a successor. There are various reasons for that -- lack of interested candidates, budget problems eliminating trainee positions; and the belief that I will stay until I am much older. You are right: that is their problem, not mine.

Good advice about not wavering, once I've put the notice in.

You are assuming that they will want to replace yourself with a clone of you. That might not be the case. When they selected my replacement he was the opposite of me. I was very hands-on. He was an administrator. Turns out management wanted to have contract workers do the hands on and the administrator administrate. Didn't do any knowledge transfer at all.

I don't think I'm assuming they'll want a clone of me. In fact, in some ways, I bet they will not. I am an introvert, and I just like to do the work and not bother with the social/marketer aspects of the job. They would probably prefer someone who's more extroverted and self-promoting in my position.

Have you considered transitioning to part time or some post retirement consulting with them? If so, that might be part of the transition plan but as others have advised, don't waver - these organizations will take all you are willing to give so you need to set boundaries and stick to them.

I've considered it, but my preference is to stop completely. I'm tired of the work. It's become pretty dull and repetitive to me. I'd like to just leave it behind and start a new chapter of my life. I'm concerned that if I stayed on part-time, I would still be tied there, with a little more free time but still immersed in that culture, still preoccupied with work stuff during leisure hours, still doing the same stuff. I'd rather move on.

It's been a good career. If I harbored ill will, I would have kept quiet and dropped a short notice. But, I don't have any hard feelings. I just want to get on with my life and things go smoothly for the one's that are left.

Yeah, that's kinda how I'm feeling, too.

 

[kcowan]

We had to downsize 20% of the staff. We took a planned approach with the benefit of an HR consulting firm. Announced and completed in 2 weeks.

All the ripples were gone after 6 months. Most of the 20% ended up in better jobs by that time.

 

[brewer12345]

I will have to figure this out by some time early next year. I have a goal of being free of the day job by the time the kids are done with school next may at the absolute latest. I could be ready to split as soon as 1/1/14. So far what I am thinking is the following:

I don't have anything burning that I have to run to immediately, so I can be flexible about my departure. While I have some misgivings about the organization I work for and I frankly never wanted to (or dreamed I would be) do this kind of work, getting a job in late 2008 was a godsend, getting a transfer to my target ER area was a godsend, and the people I work with and for I mostly like and respect. I don't want to leave them in a bad situation and I would even consider consulting/contract work for them after I bail. I have a hard deadline I have set for myselff timed with the school schedule, but that is about it. Accordingly, I am thinking that when I am ready I will call my direct boss and explain the situation and negotiate an end date. Given the nature of the work, they might tell me to leave the building immediately so I would be prepared for that. OTOH, they might ask for a transition period of several weeks, which I would be OK with.

Any big holes in my line of thinking?

 

[ChocoKitty]

Any big holes in my line of thinking?

Nope, sounds like you have it all covered.

 

[MRG]

When I left after 30 years I gave 3 weeks notice. Retirment group had told me l that was OK. Megacorp treated it like a termination, in a good way. Co-workers amazed me with multiple celebrations.

I didn't want too tip my hand too early, while I enjoyed my time there, I know if they wanted me gone during my 30 years, that's more notice than I would have been given.
MRG

 

[Rustward]

Megacorp treated it like a termination...

. . . because that is exactly what it is.


EVERY employee eventually terminates.

 

[misty57]

DH had "the retirement talk" with his VP a little past mid-February. The VP requested that DH delay submitting official papers so that a replacement could be found and to facilitate a smooth transition. DH told him that his preference would be to retire at the end of April, but that he would stay another month if necessary to facilitate a smooth transition - over 90 days notice.

Once DH wrote the rec for his replacement as requested by his VP (completed and submitted to the VP the next week), the VP and HR kept dragging their heels. Two weeks passed, then a month, then six weeks and the rec was still not "in the system". Seeing no effort to really get the show on the road, DH decided to take the bull by the horns and submitted his paperwork for a 5/31 exit.

TODAY they are FINALLY doing panel interviews with (4) candidates. Tomorrow is an off-Friday and Monday is a holiday, so after today DH has (4) working days left. There will be no time for him to be involved in the transition, so he has put together a back-up transition plan. It requires his management team to familiarize his replacement with how DH's organization has been run and the function of each his reports. It is not the optimal way to facilitate a transition and he could do OMM (one more month), which he might have been willing to do if the the problem had been that an "adequate" replacement took longer than expected to find, but that has not been the case.

He's pretty sure that if he had given them six month's notice, the outcome would have been similar.

In working time he has 4 days, 4 hours, and 15 minutes left to work!!

 

[Rustward]

. . . the VP and HR kept dragging their heels. Two weeks passed, then a month, then six weeks and the rec was still not "in the system".

In some cases the hiring manager is not allowed to add the replacement to the payroll until the employee who is leaving has terminated.

 

[Buckeye]

I don't think you appreciate how irreplaceable I am.

har. Actually, what will probably determine my length of notice will be my own indecisiveness. The more I thought about it, the less I could imagine giving 12 months notice, because I knew that over those 12 months, I would probably change my mind about ER half a dozen times. Anyone who follows the Class of 2014 thread has already seen me change my mind twice in the space of a month. And those are only the documented changes/flip-flops. There are plenty more happening in my head all the time ("one more year"?).

More notice = more time to doubt my decision and change my mind. So perhaps less than 6 months would be good, especially if I have any remaining doubt at that point.

How soon will your subordinate be retiring? Or are you leaving before him? Will he leave if he finds out you are leaving? Will they need to replace two people at once?