How much notice did you (should I) give?

[misty57]

In some cases the hiring manager is not allowed to add the replacement to the payroll until the employee who is leaving has terminated.

That's true; but at DH's level a period of transition is preferred if at all possible.

 

[ER Eddie]

How soon will your subordinate be retiring? Or are you leaving before him? Will he leave if he finds out you are leaving? Will they need to replace two people at once?

My subordinate/friend says he plans to cut back to part-time around the time I retire. He originally planned to retire in 5 years, but when I told him I was leaving in about 16 months, he moved his timetable up a little and said he plans to cut back to part-time around the same time. If he follows through on that, it would leave a bigger hole for the company to fill. He plans on retiring completely a couple years after that.

Which I hope he does! He jokes about having "no life" outside of work. He says it humorously, but it is also a sad truth. He's 70. He's got, what, maybe a decade or so left. He's worked hard for his family for many decades. He deserves to step out and enjoy himself.

Unfortunately, he gets a lot of his sense of importance/accomplishment from work, and he's "old school" in that he views retirement as being put out to pasture, a sign of the end. Also, he has a taste for expensive houses, new cars, supporting his wife's expensive tastes, and other things that keep retirement out of reach for him. Which is perhaps how he wants it. I think retirement sort of scares or saddens him, feels like a defeat in some way.

 

[johnrlawjr]

Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest.
Mark Twain

 

[Moscyn]

When I left my job, I gave the 3 months notice as per my contract and mentioned to my boss that I can stay on for a few more weeks if they need me to narrow the time gap if a replacement is unable to join soon. I ended up staying on a few weeks more and everyone including myself are happy with the arrangement. One of my friends gave word that she intended to retire soon and contractually, she is only required to give 3 months. Similar to my situation, she indicated she is willing to stay on to narrow time gap. She was kept on for a few months with unpaid leave gap in between. So, ask yourself how long you are willing to be kept on (if required) in addition to the contractual notice and then speak to your boss.

 

[Delaney]

My subordinate/friend says he plans to cut back to part-time around the time I retire. He originally planned to retire in 5 years, but when I told him I was leaving in about 16 months, he moved his timetable up a little and said he plans to cut back to part-time around the same time. If he follows through on that, it would leave a bigger hole for the company to fill. He plans on retiring completely a couple years after that.

Which I hope he does! He jokes about having "no life" outside of work. He says it humorously, but it is also a sad truth. He's 70. He's got, what, maybe a decade or so left. He's worked hard for his family for many decades. He deserves to step out and enjoy himself.

Unfortunately, he gets a lot of his sense of importance/accomplishment from work, and he's "old school" in that he views retirement as being put out to pasture, a sign of the end. Also, he has a taste for expensive houses, new cars, supporting his wife's expensive tastes, and other things that keep retirement out of reach for him. Which is perhaps how he wants it. I think retirement sort of scares or saddens him, feels like a defeat in some way.

I feel bad for people who are really planning for virtually no retirement. I worked in a MegaCorp IT department where everyone had to worry about layoffs. (For one thing, the goal was to move 80 to 90% of staffing to India.) Lots of people had over 25 years in and I feel had every opportunity to save enough, but they were still terrified of being laid off. One person told me that the only package he could live with would be 100% of his salary. I know it's not always a financial decision--some people don't know what they would do with the time if they retired, but I find that sad too.

 

[ER Eddie]

I find it sad, too. I want more for him than that. But that's how he's chosen to live his life, and I think he sees the tradeoffs as justified. Different strokes, I guess.

It's a little scary, when I imagine being in that situation myself. Think about what that would feel like -- knowing in your bones that you would never retire, that you would work full time at your job for the rest of your life.

I have enough trouble waiting 16 months! If I knew that I had to work full time for the rest of my life -- another 20+ years, probably -- I would probably blow my head off. Well, not really, but I would feel absolutely miserable, frustrated, and trapped.

 

[obgyn65]

To the OP : I would just be fair to my employer. Call HR, ask what is common practice, follow it, and move on. Keep it simple.

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed_The_Gypsy
I vote for Friday morning of your last day. And spend the rest of Friday in HR making out the papers.

IMHO, you do have a strange view of your importance. A company is a machine to make money for somebody--and it is probably not you. It is not your family.

Working is like a poker game: if you haven't figured out who the sucker is in the first ten minutes, it is you. You owe them nothing.

I disagree. I have long-term friendships with some of these people. They have given me a lot of support and showed me a lot of kindness over the years. They have had my back; they have stood beside me when I needed them to; and they have helped me to grow as both a person and a professional. They have placed a lot of faith and confidence in me. I can't just say "F. you, I'm outta here." I owe them some notice, some advance warning, so they can make some adjustments to my leaving. I wouldn't want to end things in the abrupt way you're suggesting. It would leave a bad taste in my mouth. It wouldn't seem professional to me. I'd feel like I was being a d*ck to people I like and feel grateful toward.

OK, I was being crude. In fact, I have similar feelings as you with respect to my present work situation, to the extent that I would have no difficulty giving 3 month's notice. Such relationships are not common, though. Most of us are more or less slaves.

But 16 months?

 

[ER Eddie]

OK, I was being crude. In fact, I have similar feelings as you with respect to my present work situation, to the extent that I would have no difficulty giving 3 month's notice. Such relationships are not common, though. Most of us are more or less slaves.

But 16 months?

Oh no, I'm not giving 16 months notice. I've got 16 months until retirement. I'm planning on giving 6 months notice, maybe less.

 

[jime444]

Just a little different perspective

A very good business acquaintance/friend of mine, hardworking, as-loyal-as-you-can-be to megaCorp just gave his 2 week notice. He and I started about the same time, approximately 9 years ago. We're peers, in different facilities, met through work and hit it off. We have similar work ethics and have always been excellent employees. We were bought about a year ago by a mega megaCorp and truly it's been downhill since. Overall, there's been a lot of change (not for the better) here and at his facility, new organization and new management. Since we're middle management, we've taken the brunt of the bad news and both of us have tried to "soften" the new corporate overlords message to our staffs, which as most of you know, is how can we make more money, even if it means stealing from the employees. So far, we're down about 12% in total compensation so far not including the bonus plan which have mysteriously not been discussed this year. Unfortunately, he'd finally reached his breaking point when they hired a real clown (from the takeover business) to run the facility and be his direct supervisor. He also works in a area of decent employment options and opportunities, so he found another job almost immediately. With a new company taking over and a new boss, moving to somewhere else across the street is pretty easy.

However, he kept his 2 week notification cordial, professional and was not going to a competitor. Well, he (and we) were shocked when the new boss "walked" him to the door the next morning. They even didn't let him pack up any personnel belongings (said they would send them to him) and they cut him loose immediately, cancelled benefits, pay, sent a e-mail to all saying he was not allowed in the facility except by HR, etc. He just laughed it off, good for him. Personally, I'd be pissed and though I had planned to give my boss some extra notice when I go (soon enough), no way in hell. I'll work right up to the day, then give my two week notice. Yep, it may cause me to work two weeks more or if they behave similarly, I'll already have my personnel effects packed and ready to go.

So, as a word of advice, quoting the Boy Scout motto, "Be Prepared". The timing of your final workdays and giving notice may be much different than you anticipate.

 

[growing_older]

Have seen too many of these "walk out" scenarios, even for long standing and totally trustworthy employees to ever risk giving a long notice unless I was already comfortably FI.

 

[Buckeye]

A very good business acquaintance/friend of mine, hardworking, as-loyal-as-you-can-be to megaCorp just gave his 2 week notice. He and I started about the same time, approximately 9 years ago. We're peers, in different facilities, met through work and hit it off. We have similar work ethics and have always been excellent employees. We were bought about a year ago by a mega megaCorp and truly it's been downhill since. Overall, there's been a lot of change (not for the better) here and at his facility, new organization and new management. Since we're middle management, we've taken the brunt of the bad news and both of us have tried to "soften" the new corporate overlords message to our staffs, which as most of you know, is how can we make more money, even if it means stealing from the employees. So far, we're down about 12% in total compensation so far not including the bonus plan which have mysteriously not been discussed this year. Unfortunately, he'd finally reached his breaking point when they hired a real clown (from the takeover business) to run the facility and be his direct supervisor. He also works in a area of decent employment options and opportunities, so he found another job almost immediately. With a new company taking over and a new boss, moving to somewhere else across the street is pretty easy.

However, he kept his 2 week notification cordial, professional and was not going to a competitor. Well, he (and we) were shocked when the new boss "walked" him to the door the next morning. They even didn't let him pack up any personnel belongings (said they would send them to him) and they cut him loose immediately, cancelled benefits, pay, sent a e-mail to all saying he was not allowed in the facility except by HR, etc. He just laughed it off, good for him. Personally, I'd be pissed and though I had planned to give my boss some extra notice when I go (soon enough), no way in hell. I'll work right up to the day, then give my two week notice. Yep, it may cause me to work two weeks more or if they behave similarly, I'll already have my personnel effects packed and ready to go.

So, as a word of advice, quoting the Boy Scout motto, "Be Prepared". The timing of your final workdays and giving notice may be much different than you anticipate.

The new guys know they are hated so they are being cautious!

 

[ER Eddie]

Well, jime444, you've got me thinking. Maybe it would be better for me to wait until I've already passed my "eligible for ER" date (Sept 2014), before I give notice. I was thinking about giving notice 6 months prior to that date, then leaving Sept 2014. And although I think the scenario you describe is highly unlikely to occur in my situation, I probably should protect myself against it anyhow. It will mean leaving later than I had planned, but it'll give me more peace of mind.

Passing that "eligible for ER" date doesn't mean a whole lot, in my case. It won't affect my small pension. What it does allow, though, is for me to maintain myself under their healthcare coverage, if I want to, until I'm 65 (although I have to pay the premium myself). If they got sadistic and decided to "walk me to the door" prior to my eligibility date, I could only extend that coverage for 18 months.

So thanks for mentioning that. I think I'll be better off if I wait until after I pass that eligibility line, before I give notice. I don't think they'd do anything nefarious, but you never know. I do have a tendency to underestimate how crappy people can be, sometimes.

 

[Meadbh]

Well, jime444, you've got me thinking. Maybe it would be better for me to wait until I've already passed my "eligible for ER" date (Sept 2014), before I give notice. I was thinking about giving notice 6 months prior to that date, then leaving Sept 2014. And although I think the scenario you describe is highly unlikely to occur in my situation, I probably should protect myself against it anyhow. It will mean leaving later than I had planned, but it'll give me more peace of mind.

Passing that "eligible for ER" date doesn't mean a whole lot, in my case. It won't affect my small pension. What it does allow, though, is for me to maintain myself under their healthcare coverage, if I want to, until I'm 65 (although I have to pay the premium myself). If they got sadistic and decided to "walk me to the door" prior to my eligibility date, I could only extend that coverage for 18 months.

So thanks for mentioning that. I think I'll be better off if I wait until after I pass that eligibility line, before I give notice. I don't think they'd do anything nefarious, but you never know. I do have a tendency to underestimate how crappy people can be, sometimes.

Never put your trust in an employer to act in your interest.

 

[gozer]

They even didn't let him pack up any personnel belongings (said they would send them to him) and they cut him loose immediately, cancelled benefits, pay, sent a e-mail to all saying he was not allowed in the facility except by HR, etc.

This seems extreme. Curious what your company policies are/were. I suspect the individual you are talking about actually had some legal recourse that he choose not to pursue.

Where I work this action would mean the company was severing employment since they stopped paying the employee prior to the employees stated departure date. If this happened to me, I would receive 36 weeks of salary plus buyout of any accrued vacation that I had not yet taken. This is not executive level severance, this is just the high end of what regular employees at my company can reach.

At my company they may remove you from the site and pull your physical and systems access, but they don't stop pay until your stated departure date. This is because its cheaper to pay you for this than pay severance. I have only once in 26 years witnessed a case of an employee saying they were leaving in 2 weeks, but getting immediately shown the door. He still got paid. HR was worried that the departing person would influence more of us to go with him so they wanted him out of contact with us. Even 25 years ago this action was silly and had little impact since we all had contact outside of work. Today it would be even more useless.

 

[ER Eddie]

Never put your trust in an employer to act in your interest.

True.

 

[AnIntentionalRoad]

This is easy.

Give no more than 30 days notice. Then, offer to work as an independent contractor for as long a term as you are comfortable with. It could be 6 months or until they hire your replacement, whichever comes first.

For compensation, charge an hourly rate of 2-3 times what you earned as an FTE.

Without this arrangement they may continue to procrastinate about finding your replacement and you will likely stick around longer than you wanted.

 

[Calico]

This seems extreme. Curious what your company policies are/were. I suspect the individual you are talking about actually had some legal recourse that he choose not to pursue.

Where I work this action would mean the company was severing employment since they stopped paying the employee prior to the employees stated departure date. If this happened to me, I would receive 36 weeks of salary plus buyout of any accrued vacation that I had not yet taken. This is not executive level severance, this is just the high end of what regular employees at my company can reach.

At my company they may remove you from the site and pull your physical and systems access, but they don't stop pay until your stated departure date. This is because its cheaper to pay you for this than pay severance. I have only once in 26 years witnessed a case of an employee saying they were leaving in 2 weeks, but getting immediately shown the door. He still got paid. HR was worried that the departing person would influence more of us to go with him so they wanted him out of contact with us. Even 25 years ago this action was silly and had little impact since we all had contact outside of work. Today it would be even more useless.

My employer could (and very likely would) do the "walk to the door" also. I work in at "at will employment" state, and there is nothing to prevent the employer from terminating employment at a moment's notice. Before I give notice a few years from now, I will have already removed all personal belongings from my workplace, and I'll be prepared if they remove me from the premises immediately. If they don't, fine. But best to be prepared.

 

[jime444]

Yes, even though it may not happen badly, there's absolutely nothing at risk except another couple of weeks of work if you give your notice after "passing" the goal line. You just got finished doing 1000-1500+ weeks, what's another two or three in the grand scope of things, just to be absolutely sure, eh?

Early in my life, my late father said to me and I quote, "if you ever think anyone has your best interests in mind except yourself, you are probably going to be disappointed". And even though it sounds almost silly, it's amazing to me how "trusting" people are with respect to their JOBS/employers.

Be safe out there.

 

[ER Eddie]

Thanks, jim, I will. I had an incident recently which convinced me that administration does not have my best interests at heart at all. I like and trust my immediate supervisor, but in the end, it wouldn't be him that makes the decision to walk me to the door; it would be that same administration. So I think you're right. I'd best protect myself, even if that means staying on a little longer.

 

[kramer]

I was working as a software engineer for a Megacorp computer company that had been going through layoffs for years. This was a great company and the work atmosphere was great except for the occasional layoffs.

Even though I didn't expect it, I was prepared to be walked to the door or terminated immediately upon giving 2 week notice. I had already taken my personal stuff home and cleaned up all my computers and storage of anything personal.

Giving unexpected notice for a great high paying job with no plan beyond an Early Retirement at a very early age (41) was one of the scariest things I have ever done.

I gave notice on April 1 (a Monday), since there were (non-performance-based) quarterly bonuses and you had to have worked on the first day of the following quarter to be eligible (but you didn't still have to be working there -- the bonus turned out to be several thousand dollars).

Anyway, they were shocked but everything was cordial. There were two big going away lunches (one during my employment and one after) and even a party at my workplace with a nice cake.

While I didn't expect anything like instant termination, I was prepared for it just in case. Prudence!

 

[Redbugdave]

After reading these posts, I can't believe what hostile atmospheres some of you folks work in. I don't think I could do it unless the money was really, really good. And I guess it must be really good...for some of you to retire in the 40s or early 50s.

I am a Federal gumshoe. Our benefits package depends on length of service, high three, etc. with no bonuses and no package deals worked out for early terminations. I guess we have the tortoise and the hare. And you know who the tortoise is...

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

Well, he (and we) were shocked when the new boss "walked" him to the door the next morning. They even didn't let him pack up any personnel belongings (said they would send them to him) and they cut him loose immediately, cancelled benefits, pay, sent a e-mail to all saying he was not allowed in the facility except by HR, etc.

I have seen this myself. Except that it was done the minute he gave notice.

I have even seen a case where the same company called a guy's next job and got him sacked.

Bon chance, mon ami.

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

After reading these posts, I can't believe what hostile atmospheres some of you folks work in. I don't think I could do it unless the money was really, really good. And I guess it must be really good...for some of you to retire in the 40s or early 50s.

I am a Federal gumshoe. Our benefits package depends on length of service, high three, etc. with no bonuses and no package deals worked out for early terminations. I guess we have the tortoise and the hare. And you know who the tortoise is...

Welcome to our world.

 

[growing_older]

I have seen this myself. Except that it was done the minute he gave notice.

Likewise, I've seen people escorted back to their desks and supervised while they pack their things, as well as people be allowed to serve out their notice. In several cases of people suspected to be retiring or just looking for work elsewhere, the bonus/raise planning gave them zero or nearly so, on the theory that they were not likely to stay long - an unsurprisingly self fulfilling prophesy.

I like my company and the folks I work with, so I will likely give a longer than a few weeks notice, but when I do give notice, I will not be planning to meet any critical milestone during the notice period.