New car safety features:

[samclem]

In what, not locking up the brakes in slick conditions?

ABS can increase braking distances in deep snow, sand, etc (compared to what a competent driver can achieve).

 

[FireFool]

I run two sets of wheels and one set doesn't have TPMS sensors (and I'm too FRUGAL to pay for them)

My son has the same beef, with two sets for winter vs. summer. His complaint is that even if he purchased TPMS sensors for his winter set he'd still have to pay each year to have them reprogrammed from one set to the other. He's complained that there should be an A/B option on vehicles to accommodate the numerous people that still need separate winter tires - to the best of either of our knowledge there's no manufacturer that's yet offered this.

 

[jimbee]

A skilled driver can outperform ABS.

That is true. However, most drivers are not skilled enough to outperform ABS.

 

[samclem]

That is true. However, most drivers are not skilled enough to outperform ABS.

But why should that reduce my options? In deep snow I want to turn off my ABS because I can brake better without it. Leaving it on decreases my safety, and the safety of others on the road with me. Assuming (for a limited remaining time) that a driver is still ultimately responsible for the safe operation the motor vehicle, (s)he should be able to elect to turn off the ABS. This is not about the safety of the herd or generalities, it's about making the vehicle as safe as possible in known existing conditions.

 

[meierlde]

But why should that reduce my options? In deep snow I want to turn off my ABS because I can brake better without it. Leaving it on decreases my safety, and the safety of others on the road with me. Assuming (for a limited remaining time) that a driver is still ultimately responsible for the safe operation the motor vehicle, (s)he should be able to elect to turn off the ABS. This is not about the safety of the herd or generalities, it's about making the vehicle as safe as possible in known existing conditions.

It turns out that a newer component of auto safety systems, electronic stability control requires ABS. On at least some vehicles it can be turned off. (2011 chevy cruze for example). But the electronic stability control reduces crashes by 35% because unless one has been to skid school, it can handle skids better than a random driver with typical training. Its just like backup cameras are required in 2018 models and I suspect a number of other safety features will come in the 2020s (before self driving arrives). Note that if you download an owners manual for cars with the safety systems, they say in big bold letters that the systems are not substitutes for safe driving.

 

[dixonge]

All.

I wish self driving cars were here already, so I could simply hop in the back at night to sleep and the van would drive itself to FL. I might need larger fuel tank.

I could be at the airport, phone home and tell DW to send the car to pick me up and it would eliminate the needed taxi ride. Nobody needs to be in it.

Get thee to Tesla.

"Eventually, your Tesla will be able to drive anywhere across the country to meet you, charging itself along the way. It will sync with your calendar to know exactly when to arrive."

https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/summon-your-tesla-your-phone

And that's exactly why I believe that if we must mandate new safety devices, the very first should be a cellphone jammer. Cheap, existing technology, proven effectiveness.

Why compensate with unproven and expensive technology, when a proven solution already exists?

I use my phone for GPS turn-by-turn, traffic updates and streaming music. Also, a lot of cars have bluetooth which routes calls through the speakers. These don't involve looking at the screen, yet would be disabled by a jammer. Until you can install tech in a car that senses where the driver's eyes are pointing, you can't mandate driver attention.

 

[jimbee]

But why should that reduce my options? In deep snow I want to turn off my ABS because I can brake better without it. Leaving it on decreases my safety, and the safety of others on the road with me. Assuming (for a limited remaining time) that a driver is still ultimately responsible for the safe operation the motor vehicle, (s)he should be able to elect to turn off the ABS. This is not about the safety of the herd or generalities, it's about making the vehicle as safe as possible in known existing conditions.

Most drivers think their driving skills are above average.

 

[Music Lover]

Most drivers think their driving skills are above average.

But, it is true for some of the population.

 

[Car-Guy]

Most drivers think their driving skills are above average.

They should try taking a course at a high performance driving school. Their opinions may change.

 

[Keim]

Hands free calling is nearly as dangerous as holding the phone.

I'm sure a work around for gps could be found far more cheaply than many of the options the gov is currently considering mandating.

 

[BOBOT]

What is needed is a device that would administer a progressively painful shock to the idiots who text/watch video/talk on phone/etc instead of paying attention!

 

[Keim]

I could support that too!

 

[mpeirce]

Hands free calling is nearly as dangerous as holding the phone.

So is talking to the person in the car with the driver.

Seriously, get me in a heated conversation in the car and I start missing my turns.

 

[Keim]

So is talking to the person in the car with the driver.

Seriously, get me in a heated conversation in the car and I start missing my turns.

Data doesn't support your assertion. The person you're conversing with provides another set of eyes, and is heavily motivated to survive.


Hands-free is not risk-free

Talking On A Hands-Free Cellphone Is As Bad As Driving Drunk - Business Insider

Phone use while driving is extremely hazardous. There is no room to debate that assertion.

 

[mpeirce]

Data doesn't support your assertion.

Actually, there is data out there that does. Here's one study from 2013 that tries to measure cognitive distraction while driving.

Talking with a passenger and talking on a cell phone (hand-help or hand-free) are found to be roughly the same.

 

[Keim]

Actually, there is data out there that does. Here's one study from 2013 that tries to measure cognitive distraction while driving.

Talking with a passenger and talking on a cell phone (hand-help or hand-free) are found to be roughly the same.

Iinteresting study. It appears the study's author does not agree with himself.

“Passenger conversation is much safer than conversation on the cell phone,’’ said David Strayer, professor of psychology at the University of Utah and the study’s lead author. “When you’re in the same physical environment, you tend to adjust your discussions to the difficulty of driving. If driving becomes difficult, they stop talking or they point out hazards.’’
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/12/01/chatty-driving-phones-vs-passengers/?_r=0

 

[Walt34]

But why should that reduce my options? In deep snow I want to turn off my ABS because I can brake better without it.

Not to offend your self-assessment, but how do you know this? While I wish I could recall the source I did read of a poll that found something on the order of 95% of drivers questioned said they were "above average" drivers.

The interesting thing about the poll was that all of the drivers were in the hospital recovering from injures sustained in auto accidents. That they caused.

 

[Keim]

Not to offend your self-assessment, but how do you know this? While I wish I could recall the source I did read of a poll that found something on the order of 95% of drivers questioned said they were "above average" drivers.

The interesting thing about the poll was that all of the drivers were in the hospital recovering from injures sustained in auto accidents. That they caused.

All drivers live in lake Woebegone, where all the children are above average.

 

[explanade]

That's what the reaction to self-driving cars are going to be, that they can't drive as well as I can.

Then the first stories of accidents will be used to say "I told you so" even though the raw numbers will be that humans cause far more accidents.

 

[petershk]

Well the long term trend over the last few decades is a drop in especially fatal car accidents and that's is through the cellphone age.

So either phones don't contribute that much or all the technology compensates for the increased risk. So I think all the technology has been a great thing. Either way there are good statistics on what causes accidents and how many there are.

Of course the biggest correlation is simple... how much you drive. Commuting 1+ hour each way is incredibly dangerous. One could argue it's unavoidable while phone usage is easily avoidable, but statistically that's where the correlation seems highest.

Interesting counter article here
https://psmag.com/the-no-1-cause-of-traffic-fatalities-it-s-not-texting-faa9aa9a82f4#.hu1ptnoey

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app

 

[gerntz]

My latest car has the backup camera, adaptive cruise control, collision avoidance feature and more, and I love these new features. I know I will insist that any future car I buy must have these great features. I do agree that the land departure warning is more annoying than helpful--if I don't turn on the turn signal early enough before changing lanes, I get this vibration/buzz through the steering wheel. I've never unintentionally crossed lanes; and construction zones cause the warning signal to activate repeatedly.

Have all these gizmos on my 18 months old MB C300. Paid on the order of an extra $5K for them & love them (I'd better, right?) & would do it all over. Love the ACC in stop/go traffic. Just sit there and let the car brake/accelerate. The lane departure is a bit annoying but it saves the day & thus is more than tolerable imo. It's not a hybrid, but the engine self turns off when I stop & restarts when I hit the gas. Also at traffic light stops, push a little more on the brake pedal & it holds on its own w/o foot on pedal. Starts up when hit gas.

 

[samclem]

Not to offend your self-assessment, but how do you know this?

Walt,
I assume by "this" you mean my assertion that I can stop in a shorter distance in deep snow if the ABS is off? Well, one doesn't have to be a great driver to accomplish this. As we know, in cars with the most popular type of ABS, if a wheel stops turning the "system" will release brake pressure to allow it to turn again (that's what the "antilock" means), then it will reapply pressure (assuming the driver still has the pedal depressed, "asking" for braking action) until the wheel again locks. This happens very rapidly and is exactly the right thing to do in most situations (dry, wet, even icy), and cars with ABS can generally produce shorter stops (and better directional control) than even very skilled drivers. But in heavy snow or sand/gravel, the shortest stopping distances are obtained by >not< letting the wheel turn and by instead piling up/moving the mass of the snow or sand around the tire to slow the car down. It's not much braking action, but sometimes it's all that can be done. The ABS "pulsing" increases the stopping distance by reducing the pile of snow/sand that is being accelerated by the car, there's little dispute about this.
From Wikipedia:

A June 1999 National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) study found that ABS increased stopping distances on loose gravel by an average of 27.2 percent.[21]

And, it doesn't take Mario Andretti to execute this fancy driving maneuver--when conditions warrant it, just keep the brake pedal depressed. Obviously, there are other factors (directional control, etc) that make things more complicated.

 

[samclem]

All drivers live in lake Woebegone, where all the children are above average.

15 minutes spent watching drivers in a supermarket parking lot, or a busy 4-way stop intersection, would disabuse anybody from believing that there are >any< drivers who should rightfully be on the road. And I do admit to my own occasional parking lot buffoonery.

 

[Zathras]

I love this stuff, but it's still in it's infancy:

Tesla Model S autonomously crashes into a parked trailer while in Summon mode

If the driver had not activated "summon" before getting out of the car this would not have happened.

I love the safety features and won't buy a car without them.
The emergency braking has prevented me from being in an accident last year, meaning it already likely paid for itself.

Over 30,000 people a year die in car accidents in the U.S.
Our nation raises holy hell over much smaller numbers.

 

[Walt34]

From Wikipedia:
And, it doesn't take Mario Andretti to execute this fancy driving maneuver--when conditions warrant it, just keep the brake pedal depressed. Obviously, there are other factors (directional control, etc) that make things more complicated.

Ah, I was not aware of this, had never heard of it. We learn new stuff every day.