Timing belt calculus

[ExFlyBoy5]

I have done my share of car repairs and maintenance over the years, but I am getting old.

Reading about car troubles now makes me want to get an EV, so there's nothing for me to do. When the battery in these babies dies, one just tows it to the dealer, writes a check for $20K (or is it $40K), and has it done quickly and cleanly.

Car troubles? Cars have never been more dependable.

Sent via mobile device. Please excuse any grammatical errors.

 

[bjorn2bwild]

One unknown variable in timing belt replacement calculus is belt quality. And yes, a belt failure can be dangerous.
In our case, the engine died just as my wife was pulling into traffic - premature @ about 45k miles. luckily the mishap was on a hill, so she was able to step on the clutch and roll back out of harm's way.
Reconstructing the failure, I see that the belt did not break - rather the teeth sheared off at the crankshaft 'gear' upon acceleration. It was a non-interference engine, so $27 for a new quality belt, problem solved. No more problems for the life of the car with future replacements at the recommended 60k interval.
Note - after inspection, I chose not replace the water pump. When it finally did fail at 120k miles, there was leakage but no other problem, i.e. - it did not seize or slip and cause a second belt failure. Data point of one.

 

[Matthew J]

Don't think Timing CHAINS can't fail. Two weeks ago the tensioner on my timing chain broke and cause mistiming on my 2004 Honda Accord engine (an interference engine) which destroyed the engine. Mechanic wanted $3400 to put a new engine in the car. I said no, sold car for just above scrap. OK the tensioner broke not the chain, but all the timing chain and all related parts should have been changed. I'm not sure what the interval for this should be. Only got 12 years and 265000 miles out of that car. I was hoping for better.


Solved my problem, bought a 2017 Camry with a non-interference engine and timing chain.

Now that I think about it, why would anybody make an interference engine when you can just make a non-interference engine?

 

[aja8888]

Now that I think about it, why would anybody make an interference engine when you can just make a non-interference engine?

Just be glad you weren't driving a Cadillac (Northstar engine) or Mercedes Benz with both have timing chains that are known to fail prematurely. The repair would be much costlier than junking a Honda.

Some reasons for interference engines:

High compression is sought along with better combustion of fuel (emission control and performance).

It's an engineering thing.

Some cars also have "variable valve timing" which can bring in interference timing. Most diesels engines are interference.

 

[RetireAge50]

Timing belts suck. This is the only item besides oil changes I do for maintenance until something fails.

 

[aja8888]

Wait a couple more years when the EPA mandated particulate filters and associated emissions hardware shows up on the new gasoline engine cars. That stuff is on the diesels now and repairs for a timing belt are a pittance in comparison to a failed particulate filter system. Believe me, you will not be worried about timing belts after that gear is mandated. And a good bit of the equipment probably won't be covered under the federal 80,000 mile emissions warranty.

 

[travelover]

Wait a couple more years when the EPA mandated particulate filters and associated emissions hardware shows up on the new gasoline engine cars. That stuff is on the diesels now and repairs for a timing belt are a pittance in comparison to a failed particulate filter system. Believe me, you will not be worried about timing belts after that gear is mandated. And a good bit of the equipment probably won't be covered under the federal 80,000 mile emissions warranty.

When I hired into MegaMotors (1981), one of the engineers told me he was buying a new car immediately because from then on, all the cars had an electronic ignition system - the beginning of the end!! I wonder if he still has that POS....

 

[bjorn2bwild]

In the mean time, I keep driving my 1988 F-150 buggy whip with gear-gear cam drive, manual transmission, hand crank windows and 0 cup holders.

 

[samclem]

Wait a couple more years when the EPA mandated particulate filters and associated emissions hardware shows up on the new gasoline engine cars. That stuff is on the diesels now and repairs for a timing belt are a pittance in comparison to a failed particulate filter system. Believe me, you will not be worried about timing belts after that gear is mandated. And a good bit of the equipment probably won't be covered under the federal 80,000 mile emissions warranty.

There will be a big demand for workarounds to these things. Revising the OBD/computer to have it ignore the particulate filter sensor, or a dongle that replaces the sensor and always sends a happy reply, etc.

 

[bjorn2bwild]

There will be a big demand for workarounds to these things. Revising the OBD/computer to have it ignore the particulate filter sensor, or a dongle that replaces the sensor and always sends a happy reply, etc.

In California the biennial smog check would catch any tampering - data is sent directly from the vehicle to the DMV*. Very hard to bypass.

*Or, Air Resources Board, whatever the proper jurisdiction.

 

[aja8888]

There will be a big demand for workarounds to these things. Revising the OBD/computer to have it ignore the particulate filter sensor, or a dongle that replaces the sensor and always sends a happy reply, etc.

You can buy a DPF Delete tune for a diesel for ~$350. Not that it is legal, but tuners are selling them. You can also buy the piece of defeat hardware that fits where the DPF was installed. The DPF ECU sensor is eliminated also.

 

[aja8888]

In California the biennial smog check would catch any tampering - data is sent directly from the vehicle to the DMV*. Very hard to bypass.

*Or, Air Resources Board, whatever the proper jurisdiction.

If you have your own tune loader like I have, and the original bin file, it's easy, to upload the file and be OEM, then later reload the tune file.

Being in Texas like we are, and driving a diesel, there is no emissions check during inspection.

In California, the legal state (not local) environmental watchdog is CARB, the California Air Resources Board.

 

[Newventurer]

2006 Toyota Tacoma was very easy and less than $100. Watch a couple of videos on the web and see if you can do it yourself and have the enjoyment of another step towards independence.

 

[Big_Hitter]

the best thing to do is have 3 or 4 vehicles (and a short commute) so you never hit the 90K mark before selling or trading them in - works for me

I've only done one timing belt and that was because they had the engine apart redoing the valve train

 

[Koolau]

Slowly closing in on the 100K replace-timing-belt on my "new" car (2000). I'll have to check if it's interference or not (where would one find this info??) If not, I'll probably wait for it to break and then replace or scrap. It could come down to the "devil I know" when deciding whether to invest in the car. YMMV

 

[Big_Hitter]

Slowly closing in on the 100K replace-timing-belt on my "new" car (2000). I'll have to check if it's interference or not (where would one find this info??) If not, I'll probably wait for it to break and then replace or scrap. It could come down to the "devil I know" when deciding whether to invest in the car. YMMV

if the timing belt breaks (or even skips a tooth) that's really bad juju

 

[Koolau]

if the timing belt breaks (or even skips a tooth) that's really bad juju

Could be as simple and cheap as a tow job (and then decide if worth it to replace) or it could be a bullet between the headlamps. My last broken timing belt (described above) was just a tow job and replacement. YMMV

 

[sengsational]

.... but I've got it priced out at $575 (yourmechanic), and that includes water pump and some pulleys..what ever is in the typical kit, I guess.

Just a follow-up to contrast this experience with taking the car to a dealership (where the "writer" makes a commission on everything he gets you to agree to), versus having the guy come to the house to do the work.

The guy from yourmechanic dot com came to the house and did the job. Really nice guy, came with his wife, actually. Was thankful to being able to do the work in the garage (but he brings an eazy-up and tarps for shade if he doesn't get a garage). No billing surprises, no pushy add-ons, nothing like that. I went out there just once and he showed me the old water pump and old pulleys and the new shiny ones he'd installed. The car runs great (of course the car wouldn't run at all if the belt wasn't on right), and there's no apparent leaks. He left the garage clean (no sign of coolant), so it was a very professionally done job. I'm sure it varies by who gets assigned to your job, but they do have a feedback system on their site, and I think this guy had been yelped, so we were pretty sure it would be a good experience, and it was.

Now on to having more nice long drives in the car with less angst about needing a tow!