Does Really Tough Exercise Make You Feel Younger?

I normally do one or two 16-ounce lifts daily.
But occasionally, I manage three or four of them in the course of a day. When I do, I sleep like a baby.

More seriously, I think your threshold of catabolism is lowered as you age.
I used to run marathons, but now I only do half-marathons. The toll on my body for that extra distance just became so onerous that it was no longer worth it.

My advice would be to dial back your "long ride" distance to 40 miles (hey, there's nothing magic about the number 50) and keep doing what you like.
 
Well, I did not know how out of shape I was.... I started going back about a month ago... and it is making me feel old...

This last week I did about 40 minutes on elliptical and then did the row of weight machines for all muscles on Monday... on Wed I did 30 minutes of elliptical, the weight machines and 30 on treadmill.... on Thurs I felt like crap... had to take medicine for the delayed muscle pains... took them Friday and today... starting to finally get back to normal...

Will cut back a bit this next week so I can go at least 3 times a week... funny thing is that when I was young I could jump on a bike and do 50 or even 100 miles without much trouble... even 15 years ago I could do 30 to 50... but stopped riding and went downhill from there... hard to get it back...

But, I do not like riding on the street... I rarely ride anymore, but if I do I go with the family to a park or trail.... on the street as little as possible...
 
I think it is time to go see a cardiologist and get a stress test.
 
One interesting thing: I've felt that my strength/fitness has been slowly deteriorating over the last few years. I normally do Bowflex instead of body weight exercises, but today I did pushups and chin-ups and I was surprised to find that I can do just as many as I was able to in 2008.

That's remarkable: no significant decrease in arm strength from age 55 to 61.
 
That's remarkable: no significant decrease in arm strength from age 55 to 61.

When I think back to when I was 61, (I'll be 73 in two months), that feels like the good old days....before the slide.
 
It seems like recovery would take longer when older, and I'm loath to risk injury, so I stay active, but I don't push it.

I had several 10 mile walking days during this recent Europe trip. That's about the extent of "extreme exercise" for me.
 
I agree, that's a big issue. It's 5-6 hours of being exposed to cars, trucks, and other crash dangers.

Part of it is that I use these long rides as a metric to see if I'm still in shape. When I don't want to go for a ride, I'll think, "Well, are you tough old guy or aren't you?"

Another thing is that the long rides take a lot of time. 5-6 hours of not getting other things done, but also 5-6 hours of not sitting in a chair.

But the question of "will I be better off if I do one long ride every week?" is still unresolved for me.

Well, I'm glad you took that in the spirit it was given. Now, let me prod just a bit further...

The bolded part - 'but also 5-6 hours of not sitting in a chair' - is something I've noticed from you from time to time. Think about it, the alternative to one thing is not simply the extreme opposite. There are alternatives to bike riding that are not 'sitting on the couch'. You could find a safer alternative activity - it isn't all or nothing.

-ERD50
 
Part of it is that I use these long rides as a metric to see if I'm still in shape. When I don't want to go for a ride, I'll think, "Well, are you tough old guy or aren't you?"

Another thing is that the long rides take a lot of time. 5-6 hours of not getting other things done, but also 5-6 hours of not sitting in a chair.

But the question of "will I be better off if I do one long ride every week?" is still unresolved for me.

If I were you, Al, I'd skip the 50-mile bike rides (which probably falls into the chronic cardio category, which recent studies show is not all that healthy), and substitute a high-intensity interval training (HIIT) routine one day each week, something like what Mark Sisson recommends here:

HIIT

High intensity day should be extremely exhausting. This is the day you’re going to dread, but luckily it’s only once a week! Make it count. If you find yourself looking forward to it, you’re either a sick individual or you’re going way too easy on yourself. The key here is metabolic conditioning – subjecting yourself to a steady barrage of multi-joint, compound exercises performed rapidly and with little rest to build muscular and anaerobic endurance. HIIT (high intensity interval training) day could be anything from a simple workout of ten sets of five pull-ups, ten push-ups, and fifteen squats, to the aforementioned Tabata intervals (sprints, burpees, squats, pull-ups, etc). For the most part, HIIT day workouts can be performed with little to no equipment (as in the Endorphin Mainline, the Prison Workout, or the 15 Minute Workout), but you can also put together an extremely solid metabolic conditioning routine using equipment, like the sledgehammer, the mace, or the sandbag. Just do it hard, fast, and don’t let up for a second.
By the time you’re tired of (as opposed to “from”) those workouts, you should be able to come up with some interesting alternatives to keep you busy. Also, stay tuned for more updates from me – I plan on introducing new routines on a regular basis to avoid stagnation (nothing worse than getting bored with a workout).
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This is a fairly intense routine, but you're done with it in 15-30 minutes, so it doesn't take long. For the rest of the week, he recommends something like this:


Monday – Sprint
Tuesday – Lift Heavy Things
Wednesday – Move Slowly, Play or Rest
Thursday – HIIT
Friday – Move Slowly, Play or Rest
Saturday – Lift Heavy Things
Sunday – Move Slowly, Play or Rest


So, there are two days of lifting heavy things, and one day of sprinting (you could substitute a quick intense bike ride for the sprinting, if you want) but those routines can be accomplished in a small amount of time also. And then the other days are days where you move or play, but don't do any real heavy exertion exercises.


If you don't like Sisson's routine, there are many other similar ones online. I think the key is to incorporate at least a day of HIIT each week, a day or two of heavy lifting (which could be bodyweight exercises rather than lifting weights), and a day of sprinting or something similar. Skip the long bike rides, which are probably doing you more harm than good, in the long run (my opinion).



 
One interesting thing: I've felt that my strength/fitness has been slowly deteriorating over the last few years. I normally do Bowflex instead of body weight exercises, but today I did pushups and chin-ups and I was surprised to find that I can do just as many as I was able to in 2008.

That's remarkable: no significant decrease in arm strength from age 55 to 61.
You are an inspiration for all mankind.

Ha
 
From everything I have read, a handful,of intermittent sprints is all you need for cardio fitness and a brief stint of intense weight lifts for muscle tone. That is now my focus. I still take regular 30 mile bike rides but they are for fun and I don't focus on going as fast as I can for the whole ride. The 50 mile rambles are few and far between - usually on a bike trip and are spaced with lunch and some pleasant rests part way through.

On the other hand, there are quite a few people who flourish on long rides or runs. I suspect most of the benefits of those activities are emotional rather than physical. But that doesn't make the benefits any less real.
 
That's remarkable: no significant decrease in arm strength from age 55 to 61.

When I was 61, I was better than I was at 55, and now that I'm 66, I'm not as good as I was at 61. Hope you fare better, Al.
 
I think it's good to push yourself once in a while, as long as you don't overdo it to the point of injuring yourself. And I think it's best to still enjoy the act of exercising, and not push yourself to the point of being miserable during that exercise.

When I do an especially hard bike ride or hike, it feels good psychologically to know that I can still do it, that I'm in almost as good a shape as I was 20 years ago. (That I'm in better shape than most of my friends makes me kind of sad though). I even enjoy feeling sore the next couple of days because then I know I really pushed myself - I mean the good kind of muscle soreness, not any pain of injury.

I wouldn't say it makes me feel younger, but it makes me feel good knowing that I'm doing a decent job caring for this ageing body.
 
T-Al, it looks like you only rode 57 miles during the entire month preceding your recent 50 miler, whereas last year, you rode over 300 miles during June. If you didn't feel discomfort during the final miles of your long rides a year ago, I suspect your recent discomfort was more a matter of simply being in worse cycling shape this year when you went for a 50 mile ride.
 
I've just passed 1,750 biking miles for 2015. I ride in a hilly area, so I get bursts of cardio followed by periods of 'rest' over 1 to 2 hours per ride. I normally do 2 rides per day. A morning and an evening ride.

I do a few organized rides, but know my limits. Nothing over 75 miles in a single ride during summer. Distance rides also require a different dietary preparation for that day.

Does all this make me feel younger? Not really. But I feel better and more fit.
 
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T-Al, it looks like you only rode 57 miles during the entire month preceding your recent 50 miler, whereas last year, you rode over 300 miles during June. If you didn't feel discomfort during the final miles of your long rides a year ago, I suspect your recent discomfort was more a matter of simply being in worse cycling shape this year when you went for a 50 mile ride.

This. At my current training level I can run 10 miles, which takes me 2 hours, once a week and not suffer from any recovery issues. But, if I want to go on a longer run, I know that I need to gradually work my way up to it. I think you can build up your training volume to the point where a 50 miler doesn't result in any ill effects, but it takes time. I don't think that you should use your recent experience as some indicator that you're not in shape or that riding long distances are bad for you.

To ERD50's point, I don't feel safe riding my bike on public roads anymore. We have a nice trail system in my town, but it's not long enough to allow for any real distance training, so I'll stick to running for the time being.
 
The bolded part - 'but also 5-6 hours of not sitting in a chair' - is something I've noticed from you from time to time. Think about it, the alternative to one thing is not simply the extreme opposite. There are alternatives to bike riding that are not 'sitting on the couch'. You could find a safer alternative activity - it isn't all or nothing.

-ERD50

Yes, I agree, but here's the thing: There is something uniquely non-boring about a long bike ride. I haven't found other things that I can do for six hours without it becoming tedious, other than reading a book or surfing the internet.

I've decided it's due to the rapidly changing scenery, and the feeling I call "eating up the miles."

Hiking can come a little close, but perhaps the scenery doesn't change fast enough.

Playing a game such as tennis would come close, but six hours?

As an extreme example, if I use the stationary bike for ten minutes I'm bored out of my skull. I don't get bored on a long bike ride, even if it isn't all fun.

A compromise I've tried is driving the bike to a safer location, but that's less practical (it's more fun to get on the bike and go).

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T-Al, it looks like you only rode 57 miles during the entire month preceding your recent 50 miler, whereas last year, you rode over 300 miles during June. If you didn't feel discomfort during the final miles of your long rides a year ago, I suspect your recent discomfort was more a matter of simply being in worse cycling shape this year when you went for a 50 mile ride.

Yes, definitely true, but I did usually feel "beat up" after those rides, also.

I've done a ton of experimenting (as those who know me would expect). For a while, here's what I kept track of for each ride:

Sleep:
Last Ride + [days since last ride]
Strength + [days since last strength training]
Weather:
Exertion:
Breakfast:
Lunch:
Eaten During Ride:
How I felt at start:
How I felt at end:
How I felt in evening:

It was hard to draw conclusions, but the most important things were

1. Just the right exertion. Ride too slowly, and it's harder. Someone pointed out that slower riding = more pressure on saddle = more discomfort = more perceived fatigue.

2. Electrolyte tablets helped.

3. Warm weather with sunshine made me feel less tired during the ride, at least.

But for this thread, the point is that (1) I often felt beat up, (2) there was a good bit of variation, and (3) there wasn't a clear factor.
 
Yes, I agree, but here's the thing: There is something uniquely non-boring about a long bike ride. I haven't found other things that I can do for six hours without it becoming tedious, other than reading a book or surfing the internet. ...

OK, but is six hours really necessary to maintain good health?

You might do it because you enjoy it, but I'd question whether that level of activity is gaining you anything (or maybe even hurting?) over something more moderate.

I've noticed among the older people I come into contact with - many of them were extremely inactive, I mean they didn't do anything other than sit around plus general household activity for many years. I suspect they have aches and pains and generally lower mobility than someone who took better care of themselves, but I can't say it is a striking difference, and I'd bet just moderate activity would have helped them a lot.

After that, I think it is really diminishing returns, and maybe even negative.

Heck, look at Hawkings - that guy hasn't moved in decades (outside of whatever PT he gets, but that's not the same as moving your muscles yourself) , and his heart is still pumping blood to his brain.

-ERD50
 
OK, but is six hours really necessary to maintain good health?

You might do it because you enjoy it, but I'd question whether that level of activity is gaining you anything (or maybe even hurting?) over something more moderate.

Right, and that's exactly the question I was asking in the OP. I'm also questioning it.

I've noticed among the older people I come into contact with - many of them were extremely inactive, I mean they didn't do anything other than sit around plus general household activity for many years. I suspect they have aches and pains and generally lower mobility ...

I wonder this same thing also.

This doesn't show causation, and it's for obesity rather than inactivity, but it's relevant:

Obese People Have More Pain, Study Finds | Excess Fat & Inflammation | Causes of Pain & The Human Body
 
The Exercise Myth.

The exercise myth: excessive exercise can harm your health! | ENCOGNITIVE.COM

I'm not sure but I think I got this link from this very forum some years ago.

ERD50 hit it. Exercise causes damage, immobility, loss of quality of life etc, and even death. When done the way people normally conceive of it. ie Go out and get some exercise, lift weights, ride a jillion miles on a bike, run marathons of any length.

Everyone I have ever known or heard of who lived (and attributed health benefits to it) an active life with daily/near daily exercise is busted and wasted, live with pain, or have had hips, knees, etc replaced. Some as early as their 30's. The only people I have heard of who are not in that state are some people on this forum and certain other exercise/health nut forums. All we have is their word.

People, like everything else in nature, work best conserving energy. All the stories about how exercise prevents this disease or that condition are bs. You can say "Well this study says this or that study says such and such" and all it means is That study says a thing. " Studies show..." is not reality. Not even anecdotal evidence. The only valid idea there is that that study did indeed say that thing

One exercise guru I saw on a talk show back in the 70's when everybody was pushing the "aerobics out the ass" programs had the most sane thing to say that I have ever heard of. When asked if it was true that exercise can prevent diseases etc she said: "Exercise can't really add years to your life but it can add life to your years. I can say the same about booze and cigarettes too, but at least she was being honest. Of course by adding life to your years you can be building scar tissue in your heart and shortening your years. But if you like getting that much exercise I guess that means "LIFE" to you. Oldtimers running the Senior Ironman course are not healthy because they run. They are simply healthy enough in old age to run. Statistical outliers. Not normal people who tried harder.
 
Yep.....definitely sounds like a "take SS at 62 or 70" type of topic. Everybody has an answer they like......there is no right answer (but for the one they think is right).
 
The book "Body by Science" makes the point that the law of diminishing returns is also true for exercise. If you don't do that extra 30 minutes of working out you lose extra benefit, but not very much.
 
I've noticed among the older people I come into contact with - many of them were extremely inactive, I mean they didn't do anything other than sit around plus general household activity for many years. I suspect they have aches and pains and generally lower mobility than someone who took better care of themselves, but I can't say it is a striking difference, and I'd bet just moderate activity would have helped them a lot.

I wonder this same thing also.

This doesn't show causation, and it's for obesity rather than inactivity, but it's relevant:
One comment on this. Some seniors need to relocate to assisted living or nursing homes because they are physically unable to continue living at home after an injury. One reason is their inability to rehabilitate. Physical therapy often requires the same mental discipline needed for strenuous exercise.

This may describe a small number of people, but I think as we approach our golden years we will benefit two ways from strenuous physical activity - less likely to suffer an accident, and if we do, more likely to recover and return home quickly.
 
Yep.....definitely sounds like a "take SS at 62 or 70" type of topic. Everybody has an answer they like......there is no right answer (but for the one they think is right).

+1

Al,

I also like to "play" to exhaustion, whether that is soccer, tennis, cycling or hiking. These days it is only hiking and cycling that I do for long periods. The stuff I do in the gym with weights or HIIT on an elliptical trainer is short term and I recover quickly, and I can't say I enjoy it.

However, I have dialed back what I do as I aged. If something takes 2 days to recover from then I stop doing it so intensely, or drop it altogether as I had to do with soccer many years ago and, more recently, tennis.

When I met with the cardiologist in March after my visit to the ER with A-Fib he told me that he actually sees a surprising number of older folks who are seriously fit athletes get A-Fib. I am not a seriously fit athlete but I know a guy who was up until a couple of years ago when he developed heart problems at age 71. I had no idea what his heart problem is but when I talked to him at the gym shortly after my visit to the doc and during the tests I was undergoing he told me that he used to run marathons and do Iron Man contests all the time. Then he got A-Fib so bad he nearly died one of the times they tried to do a reversion and for the last couple of years he has been taking a battery of drugs plus had a pace-maker fitted. When they did the tests on him the first time he presented with A-Fib they found old scarring on his heart probably caused by one or more of these extreme workouts.

As a soccer ref in my early forties one of my fellow refs, and a friend at work, who was in his late forties was, I thought, fitter than I because when weekend tournaments came along I could only manage 3 U-16 boys games whereas he would manage at least 4 games, until he collapsed with a heart attack and needed by-pass surgery. (he was super thin as well, and qualified to do professional games which required passing an annual fitness test).

Anecdotal I know, but you need to listen to your body.
 
Everyone I have ever known or heard of who lived (and attributed health benefits to it) an active life with daily/near daily exercise is busted and wasted, live with pain, or have had hips, knees, etc replaced. Some as early as their 30's. The only people I have heard of who are not in that state are some people on this forum and certain other exercise/health nut forums. All we have is their word.

Not sure what the point is you're trying to make. Are you saying all exercise of any kind is ultimately bad for you or just excessive exercise? Daily exercise (walking, hiking, cycling, light weights) doesn't equate to excessive exercise in my book. Sure some take it to an extreme and I would agree it's not good for your body but that's a very small percentage of the general population. The people I know that don't do any type of exercise and live a 'couch potato' life style are mostly obese, diabetic, have difficulty just getting up from the sofa, and are out of breath walking anything more than 100'.
 
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