I could go on and on, but just for starters the problems we'd have to confront include (in no particular order):
lifestyle (obesity, smoking, drugs)
That is a big objection of a lot of people. But here's the thing: If there is so much outrage about "obesity" and "lifestyle" because of the perceived higher cost of that lifestyle to the public for health care, how come there isn't outrage about how much more healthy lifestyles are costing us in terms of Social Security and public pensions? People who "live right" in terms of health collect checks from the taxpayer for several more years on average.
So if the objection to obesity, lack of exercise, junk food, smoking, drinking and whatever else is really due to disgust over the cost to the public.... why aren't these same people mad about healthy lifestyles sucking SS and public pensions dry, for another 5, 6, 7 or more years on average?
Usually I hear crickets when I ask that question. That suggests to me that it's really more about disapproval of the lifestyle than it is about cost to the public, with the cost to the public being a convenient justification for said disapproval.
__________________ "Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)
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That is a big objection of a lot of people. But here's the thing: If there is so much outrage about "obesity" and "lifestyle" because of the perceived higher cost of that lifestyle to the public for health care, how come there isn't outrage about how much more healthy lifestyles are costing us in terms of Social Security and public pensions? People who "live right" in terms of health collect checks from the taxpayer for several more years on average.
So if the objection to obesity, lack of exercise, junk food, smoking, drinking and whatever else is really due to disgust over the cost to the public.... why aren't these same people mad about healthy lifestyles sucking SS and public pensions dry, for another 5, 6, 7 or more years on average?
Usually I hear crickets when I ask that question. That suggests to me that it's really more about disapproval of the lifestyle than it is about cost to the public, with the cost to the public being a convenient justification for said disapproval.
Of course that was just one of many health care issues, but an interesting POV. Not sure how to evaluate if one offsets the other in terms of $. If so, I guess the Surgeon General should start advocating smoking, drinking, drinking & driving, etc. My MIL has never taken care of herself, has had lots of medical issues all funded by taxpayers, she is 84 and still going strong. But I guess I should withhold judgement until I have some facts...
__________________ Retiring May 2010 --- maybe.
You only live once... If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and and never will be. Thomas Jefferson
But I guess I should withhold judgement until I have some facts...
No need to get too far "out of bounds."
__________________ "It's tough to make predictions, especially when it involves the future." ~Attributed to many
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is." ~(perhaps by) Yogi Berra
"Those who have knowledge, don't predict. Those who predict, don't have knowledge."~ Lau tzu
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,438
The Japanese smoke like chimneys...
__________________ Have Funds, Will Retire "...but do feel free to assert your duly noted opinion on this subject again without benefit of reference or provision of additional information..."
My wife was telling me about a study she read on those aged 110 and over. Smoking and drinking were fairly common - one woman even lit up during the interview
The only common factor reported was the ability they all had in dealing with stress, and they came from a range of different backgrounds and all had had plenty of stress in their lives.
I think it was the former president of Switzerland who said the vote for No/Yes was almost 50/50, but they did it only like 10 years ago, which is amazing.
Can you imagine the government capping how much doctors can charge for patient visits/treatments/drugs in the US? Hospital stays? Doctors are in the helping profession, but I'm sure many become doctors attracted to the future income. Who would want to become doctors knowing they can't make much money? What to do with their huge student loans?
It is also interesting that in a few places within the show different people said the universal healthcare is kind of like Medicare, so we already have it, but extending it to the rest of the people may not be so easy.
The impression and things I heard on the show about doctor pay indicated they got about 2/3 of what american doctors get. And those countries have the out of sight vacation allowances. Doesn't sound that bad. And not much in set up and marketing costs.
The impression and things I heard on the show about doctor pay indicated they got about 2/3 of what american doctors get. And those countries have the out of sight vacation allowances. Doesn't sound that bad. And not much in set up and marketing costs.
The cost of insurance for their practice and the cost of their education are also very small compared to their counterparts in the USA.
I hate to go to my doctor because he runs every test know to man on me and never finds anything. Why ?? because I have good insurance. I know for a fact he does it on others also. A simple blood test would probably be good enough unless I complain of something wrong with me. Here is an interesting article I read yesterday. Very best care in the world is not affordable | Birmingham News Commentary - al.com
I hate to go to my doctor because he runs every test know to man on me and never finds anything. Why ?? because I have good insurance.
I doubt that is the reason. In any event, my PCP found my Atrial Fibrillation during one of those silly "unnecessary" looks. I doubt that I would be alive today had he not found it; I certainly would not enjoy the quality of life I am blessed with. I most likely would have been one those "healthy as a horse and just keeled over" statistics. Since then I cannot get enough testing done.
On the other hand, I recognize there are those that feel 180º to that thinking:
__________________ "It's tough to make predictions, especially when it involves the future." ~Attributed to many
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is." ~(perhaps by) Yogi Berra
"Those who have knowledge, don't predict. Those who predict, don't have knowledge."~ Lau tzu
I hate to go to my doctor because he runs every test know to man on me and never finds anything. Why ?? because I have good insurance. I know for a fact he does it on others also. A simple blood test would probably be good enough unless I complain of something wrong with me. Here is an interesting article I read yesterday. Very best care in the world is not affordable | Birmingham News Commentary - al.com
It is not the number of tests I object to so much as the costs of the tests. In the program it highlighted the Japanese as visiting the doctor 3 times more often than Americans and having 4 times as many MRI scans and they can do this because the costs of the tests is very low - an MRI costs $98.
I don't know how much an MRI costs in the UK but a way they keep down the cost is machine utilization, using it from early morning to late into the evenings. My BIL has had several MRI's on his head (slow growing brain tumor - he has had 3 surgeries on it also). His appointments are always after 8pm which suits my sister as she has to drive him and it saves her taking unpaid time off work.
It is not the number of tests I object to so much as the costs of the tests. In the program it highlighted the Japanese as visiting the doctor 3 times more often than Americans and having 4 times as many MRI scans and they can do this because the costs of the tests is very low - an MRI costs $98.
Is this the total cost of the procedure, or the cost to the patient after government subsidies?
__________________ "Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)
Is this the total cost of the procedure, or the cost to the patient after government subsidies?
That is the absolute cost of the procedure to the insurance company, and they said the same scan would cost 10 times as much in the USA. ($1,000 versus $98). In the program they said that when the government set the costs the manufacturers claimed they couldn't make machines that could cost so little so the government said they would find companies that could, and lo and behold the costs came down. They showed an MRI scanner being used - made by Toshiba. Not suggested in the program, but perhaps Toshiba and others make their profits by ramping up the profit margins on countries and people that will pay.
Not suggested in the program, but perhaps Toshiba and others make their profits by ramping up the profit margins on countries and people that will pay.
Wouldn't surprise me. That seems to be what the drug makers do.
__________________ "Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)
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and lots more of this 
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