Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-03-2017, 08:51 PM   #61
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
audreyh1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 23,548
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllDone View Post
My weakness is roasted, salted nuts. I keep a few raw nuts in the freezer for baking, but I know better than to eat even one salted nut, because that's going to lead to something ugly. And yes, it certainly has nothing to do with hunger or silly theories about insulin and glucose.
Why do you think theories about insulin and glucose are silly?
__________________

__________________
Retired since summer 1999.
audreyh1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 04-03-2017, 08:53 PM   #62
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Central PA
Posts: 1,857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbata View Post
It's just amazing his beginning of speech. It took millions of years of evolution to get to where man was in 1985. Of course, it could be argued it took billions of years.
Probably not billions of years. Eukaryotic cells made their appearance less than 2 billion years ago. The first multicellular organism may have appeared less than a billion years ago.

QUOTE=Elbata;1862647]Then less than a blink of the evolutionary eye, a mere 30 years, and 70% of US population is overweight. Incredible.

And what now is taught as the solution? Eat more fat. Oil, butter eggs. From my vantage point, we have no hope.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely eat more eggs, fish, olive oil. And leafy veggies. It doesn't mean eat 3000 calories. Eating this way leaves you less hungry, more energetic and alert as well. I find I'm satisfied on 1300-1400 calories eating this way. Also, it is much easier to get one's essential fatty acids from this way of eating.

The problem is we were told to eat low fat, and the food industry is making a killing with all the high carb and high sugar junk foods. This was codified by the U.S. government in 1977-78 in the development of the nutrition guidelines that may have had a lot of input from the food industry. Carbohydrates, grains, sugars, are cheap to produce and are shelf stable. Add a little salt and sugar and you have a really addicting food. Potato chips. Crackers are salty and sweet. Sweet cereals. The same thing happened in the UK at the same time. And they UK also has a big obesity problem. Wherever the western diet is adopted, obesity soon follows.

Delve into the subject and one realizes that Gary Taubes, Stephen Phinney MD, Andreas Eenfeldt MD, and others, may really be onto something.

Actually, the point is to basically stop eating so many carbs. If you don't get your energy from carbohydrates, you have to get it from the other macronutrients. Your choices are: fats and protein. You need protein, but if you take in enough to metabolize your protein for energy, there will be an increase in insulin levels. And excess protein does not turn into muscle, and it isn't very good for your kidneys. So that leaves fat. And some saturated fat isn't all bad, and we used to think that polyunsaturated fat was good fat, but omega-6 PUFAs are not, so it seems it's best to get most of your fat from monunsaturated fats--olive oil for example. We have essential fatty acids and essential amino acids. There are no essential carbohydrates.
__________________

EastWest Gal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2017, 08:53 PM   #63
Recycles dryer sheets
TrophyWife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 158
I just read about we are very iodine deficient in a book called The Iodine Crisis-good read. They take iodine out of our brad and replaced it with bromine that blocks iodine uptake. This could definitely be the link to the increase in obesity, cancers and mental health. I recently started and iodine protocol and the brain fog is gone! Happened to a friend of mine too.
TrophyWife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2017, 08:56 PM   #64
Recycles dryer sheets
TrophyWife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt34 View Post
Doritos are my weakness and for that reason it is a rare day when I even go down that aisle in the store. When I fall off the wagon, which happens about twice a year, I am perfectly capable of eating all or most of a party size bag.
Funny you mention Doritos, just read a book called The Dorito Effect and the introduction of chemical flavorings.
TrophyWife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2017, 09:02 PM   #65
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Central PA
Posts: 1,857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbata View Post
It's just amazing his beginning of speech. It took millions of years of evolution to get to where man was in 1985. Of course, it could be argued it took billions of years.
Probably not billions of years. Eukaryotic cells made their appearance less than 2 billion years ago. The first multicellular organism may have appeared less than a billion years ago.

QUOTE=Elbata;1862647]Then less than a blink of the evolutionary eye, a mere 30 years, and 70% of US population is overweight. Incredible.

And what now is taught as the solution? Eat more fat. Oil, butter eggs. From my vantage point, we have no hope.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely eat more eggs, fish, olive oil. And leafy veggies. It doesn't mean eat 3000 calories. Eating this way leaves you less hungry, more energetic and alert as well. I find I'm satisfied on 1300-1400 calories eating this way. Also, it is much easier to get one's essential fatty acids from this way of eating.

The problem is we were told to eat low fat, and the food industry is making a killing with all the high carb and high sugar junk foods. This was codified by the U.S. government in 1977-78 in the development of the nutrition guidelines that may have had a lot of input from the food industry. Carbohydrates, grains, sugars, are cheap to produce and are shelf stable. Add a little salt and sugar and you have a really addicting food. Potato chips. Crackers are salty and sweet. Sweet cereals. The same thing happened in the UK at the same time. And they UK also has a big obesity problem. Wherever the western diet is adopted, obesity soon follows.

Delve into the subject and one realizes that Gary Taubes, Stephen Phinney MD, Andreas Eenfeldt MD, and others, may really be onto something.

Actually, the point is to basically stop eating so many carbs. If you don't get your energy from carbohydrates, you have to get it from the other macronutrients. Your choices are: fats and protein. You need protein, but if you take in enough to metabolize your protein for energy, there will be an increase in insulin levels. And excess protein does not turn into muscle, and it isn't very good for your kidneys. So that leaves fat. And some saturated fat isn't all bad, and we used to think that polyunsaturated fat was good fat, but omega-6 PUFAs are not, so it seems it's best to get most of your fat from monunsaturated fats--olive oil for example. We have essential fatty acids and essential amino acids. There are no essential carbohydrates.
EastWest Gal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2017, 07:37 AM   #66
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
donheff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 9,587
I read Taubes' books several years ago, then Wheat Belly and a few others. The studies they quoted seemed compelling and the insulin theory they proposed as a reason sounded sensible to my lay ear. I became fascinated with the topic because despite being a naturally skinny youth I slowly gained about a pound a year over my entire adult life. I still wasn't obese but I definitely was overweight despite being very active (gym, 30+ mile bike rides). I dumped the sugar and processed carbs and dropped 35 pounds (18% of body weight) in a flash despite never counting a calorie and cranking up my meat and fats. Since then I have effortlessly kept the weight off (4 years now).

From what I have read (and I read a lot on the topic) Taubes, et al cherry picked the evidence for insulin being the culprit and probably misunderstand the very complex science of metabolism. Their insulin theory likely gets it wrong, but that doesn't mean they were wrong about the problems with the macro-nutrients they target. What can't be denied is Audrey's observation that the obesity problem has become epidemic and almost has to be diet related. Pretty much everybody agrees that sugar and highly processed carbs are bad for you. My study of N=1 convinced me that you have to find a diet that minimizes those culprits without leading to constant hunger and frustration and then just stick to it. For people like me, that will include a lot of meats and fats (chicken wings anyone) but for others it will involve lots of vegetables and low fat. The important thing is to avoid sugar and processed carbs - that means watching labels for added sugars and carb counts in general. Often the low fat items on the shelves are loaded with those bad guys to increase palatability.

Just another anecdotal observation. I was eating breakfast at a Cracker Barrel a couple of years ago (yeah, I know) and saw a fascinating photo on the wall. It was a picture of about 100 workers outside a mill of some sort. They were all lean and healthy looking despite being a mix of ages. I looked in vain for a single obese individual. A similar photo taken today would almost be the reverse.
__________________
Every man is, or hopes to be, an Idler. -- Samuel Johnson
donheff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2017, 07:54 AM   #67
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 4,389
Quote:
Originally Posted by audreyh1 View Post
Does obesity decrease as income increases? I get the impression that obesity rates are highest among the lowest income groups. Which leads me to believe that the cheapest food is a culprit, and the cheapest food is usually the highest processed carb stuff. Buying good quality meat and vegetables is expensive.
Yes. I haven't read all the posts here but I'm passionate about this subject so I may repeat points already made. We all pay for obesity- the health problems it causes, the way it complicates other conditions (including Worker's Comp. claims), even the hard time obese people have getting jobs (yes, there is discrimination and there are some physical jobs they can't do, so they're unable to be as productive as the could be). When people on FB complain about the high cost of health care I try to remind them of things which can be prevented. They don't want to hear it.

OK, I'll list my to 5 factors.

1. Poverty- the working poor, especially, don't have time or money for gyms and may believe that the drive-through lane is easier and cheaper than cooking at home.

2. Culture- people who come from families that worked farms or construction may still chow down on the same old family recipes that worked for their ancestors who needed far more calories. Then there's the "show your love by feeding people" mentality, which can be taken to extremes.

3. Processed food. So cheap. So easy. My mother used to make doughnuts and french fries. Not very often- it was work. Now you can defrost Ore-Idas in the microwave any time you want. Big Food has also gotten very good at engineering food so that you want more- especially with added sugar. And sugar is in EVERYTHING. I'm borderline diabetic for no reason I can fathom and it's hard to find things without added sugar (unless they have aspartame in them- yuck.) High-fructose corn syrup is evil. I also believe that "real" food- including butter and other animal fats- can be far more satisfying than processed, so you eat less.

4. Many people don't know how to cook. Well, maybe Blue Apron will help. I get sad when I'm in line behind people at my grocery store who are buying with an EBT card (the "eligible" subtotal shows up on the monitor and sometimes they have to pay cash for items not covered). I'm buying cabbage and bananas and onions and they're buying energy drinks and processed foods.

5. As has been noted earlier, there's very little reason to get off the couch, even to change the channel or go shopping. Suburbia is made for people with cars. Parking lots of strip shopping centers are so big that even I tend to get back into the car to go to a store on the far end of the parking lot from the store I just left.
athena53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2017, 08:04 AM   #68
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Nemo2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Belleville, ONT
Posts: 6,521
Quote:
Originally Posted by athena53 View Post
1. Poverty- the working poor, especially, don't have time or money for gyms
Reminds me of an old Shoe comic strip; Cosmo, (the 'Perfessor'), says "I'd like to exercise, but the track is a mile from here, and I've no way of getting there".......(or words to that effect).
__________________
"Exit, pursued by a bear."

The Winter's Tale, William Shakespeare
Nemo2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2017, 08:21 AM   #69
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
MRG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,467
Lot of good information in this thread.

I am amazed by walking through a Walmart. How many isles of chips, cookies and non-nutritious food are there? Processed meals laden with sugar and sodium is the majority of the grocery sections.

When DW and I started to diet we changed everything. I cleaned out the pantry and threw out everything. The things we ate resembled what our parents and grandparents ate. We did count calories after a month, found we could eat more. Bring on the eggs and butter, fats keep me fuller, longer.

I do spend a little time on the MFP boards. It's sad to see young people posting they have no cooking ability! None, zero. Like boiled water has a recipe!

There was a recent poster who was asking for help as she was pre-diabetic and her doc told her what to avoid. Now she's admitted she had never cooked an egg and has no idea where to start. The person is lower income and didn't have any idea of how to buy food or prepare a real meal. Sadly there's a whole bunch of people who appear to be in the same situation.
MRG is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2017, 08:41 AM   #70
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 21,964
I will skip this video. The reason is, when I see data being tortured like this, I have no faith in the remaining presentation:

USA Obesity Epidemic - how fast it happened!!! 25 years!

Quote:
1985 - many states didn't collect data as obesity wasn't a serious health concern, and <10 states has obesity rates >10%.

1987 - More states have data. More have obesity rates >10%
Of course more states are reporting higher obesity rates, because more states are reporting data! Note that the 1985 data is an absolute number (<10). I bet you could also say more states reported normal weights as well!

It might mean something if they said a higher percentage of states reported high obesity rates. But the numbers are probably too low to make meaningful comparisons.

This whole health and weight and diet and exercise arena is a complicated thing, and bad data doesn't help.

-ERD50
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2017, 08:46 AM   #71
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: No Country for Old Men
Posts: 45,890
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRG View Post
I am amazed by walking through a Walmart. How many isles of chips, cookies and non-nutritious food are there? Processed meals laden with sugar and sodium is the majority of the grocery sections.
I don't have a dog in this fight but overheard my daughter last night talking about her company's declining sales and struggle to keep up with the changing food preferences of the American public.

She works for a private company that produces, among other food-related products, flour and other baking ingredients. Sales of those products have declined steeply over the past few years - apparently no one cooks any more. The company also makes a number of "just add water" mixes and sales of those are way down, too. Apparently even that's too much trouble.

Maybe laziness leads to weight gain on multiple levels...
__________________
Numbers is hard

Charter resident of the lumpen slums of cyberspace

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2017, 08:50 AM   #72
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Amethyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,047
Just like inferior coffee made with an expensive one-use pod is preferred over grinding a few beans (20 seconds), putting it in a filter and adding a carafe of water (another 60 seconds, max) and then waiting another 120 seconds for far richer, more delicious (and much cheaper) coffee. Those 3.5 minutes are just too precious to waste!

Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
I The company also makes a number of "just add water" mixes and sales of those are way down, too. Apparently even that's too much trouble.

Maybe laziness leads to weight gain on multiple levels...
__________________
If you understood everything I say, you'd be me ~ Miles Davis
'There is only one success to be able to spend your life in your own way. Christopher Morley.
Amethyst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2017, 09:07 AM   #73
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 2,541
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amethyst View Post
Just like inferior coffee made with an expensive one-use pod is preferred over grinding a few beans (20 seconds), putting it in a filter and adding a carafe of water (another 60 seconds, max) and then waiting another 120 seconds for far richer, more delicious (and much cheaper) coffee. Those 3.5 minutes are just too precious to waste!
Pre-retirement, I used to grind beans and take a thermos of coffee to the office. One other person came in with a travel mug of coffee, but all the other coffee drinkers in the group (30 or so people) used to buy take out coffee. It never made sense to me...
Music Lover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2017, 09:39 AM   #74
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,083
We have bought coffee beans, ground them to order, and used a Melita filter for the past years or so.

Server in Starbucks last year started to tell us that this 'pour over' was something new and implied that it was exclusive to Starbucks. She just gave my spouse a look when DW told her that we have been doing it for years. Wonder if they tell anyone that a french press is a Starbucks innovation?
brett is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2017, 09:41 AM   #75
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
audreyh1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 23,548
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
I will skip this video. The reason is, when I see data being tortured like this, I have no faith in the remaining presentation:

USA Obesity Epidemic - how fast it happened!!! 25 years!



Of course more states are reporting higher obesity rates, because more states are reporting data! Note that the 1985 data is an absolute number (<10). I bet you could also say more states reported normal weights as well!

It might mean something if they said a higher percentage of states reported high obesity rates. But the numbers are probably too low to make meaningful comparisons.

This whole health and weight and diet and exercise arena is a complicated thing, and bad data doesn't help.

-ERD50
This is a really minor objection, IMO. So just track the states that DID have data from 1985, and you still see the explosion. By 1991 all but three states had data, so you still see the explosion from 1991 to 2010. I tried to summarize this part of the video in my bullets, poorly worded perhaps, but the data are clear in the CDC maps.

It might be better to watch the video before complaining about bad data based on my amateur summary.
__________________
Retired since summer 1999.
audreyh1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2017, 09:43 AM   #76
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Amethyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,047
Smoking was extremely well-entrenched in society when I was a little girl, as was drunk driving.

By the time I reached middle age, people had gotten very scared of the consequences, and stopped doing those things. Well, everybody didn't stop, but a whole bunch did.

I don't think people are that scared of the consequences of obesity...yet. Same with distracted driving. People don't quite feel that highly-motivating danger to themselves that causes folks to expend effort and give up pleasures.
__________________
If you understood everything I say, you'd be me ~ Miles Davis
'There is only one success to be able to spend your life in your own way. Christopher Morley.
Amethyst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2017, 09:49 AM   #77
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: No Country for Old Men
Posts: 45,890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amethyst View Post
Same with distracted driving. People don't quite feel that highly-motivating danger to themselves that causes folks to expend effort and give up pleasures.
That may be changing - at least I hope it is. Here is an example of what can happen when someone texts and drives...

"I'm sorry. I was texting" driver told witness after collision with church bus that killed 13 - Chicago Tribune
__________________
Numbers is hard

Charter resident of the lumpen slums of cyberspace

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2017, 09:51 AM   #78
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Kerrville,Tx
Posts: 3,207
Note that at the same time as human obesity obesity in cats and dogs has also increased. An anecdote my niece who is a veterinarian has a cat who is on a diet, and my sister has a dog that is always hungry, all be it that both spent some time as feral animals (the dog still has some buckshot in him). This indicates that the problem is more than just humans but at least all mammals. IMHO it is because until the 20th century animals lived in an environment of food scarcity and food shortages. Thus in that environment when food was available, it was advantageous to put some fat on in case of the potentially coming famine. It is this environment that animals and humans evolved in and all of a sudden in the last 100 years we all have been placed in an environment of food surplus, in a nearly permanent state (at least in terms of calories). This is something our genetics are not equipped to cope with as they work to prepare us for a famine that keeps getting postponed.

Now it is also the case that Sugar and its relatives if newly discovered would be declared a class 1 drug by the DEA and banned as they are probably the most addictive substances in existence.
meierlde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2017, 09:54 AM   #79
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
audreyh1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 23,548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amethyst View Post
Just like inferior coffee made with an expensive one-use pod is preferred over grinding a few beans (20 seconds), putting it in a filter and adding a carafe of water (another 60 seconds, max) and then waiting another 120 seconds for far richer, more delicious (and much cheaper) coffee. Those 3.5 minutes are just too precious to waste!
When a Nespresso machine can make espresso just as well (or better) than I can, with much less equipment and counter space, then what is the point of "keeping the old ways"?

Who complains about using dishwashers or washing machines and clothes dryers, or vacuum cleaners?

I do, in fact, cook my own food from scratch because I need to control the ingredients. But I turn over tasks to machines when they do a really good job and save me a lot of trouble.
__________________
Retired since summer 1999.
audreyh1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2017, 10:09 AM   #80
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Central PA
Posts: 1,857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amethyst View Post
Just like inferior coffee made with an expensive one-use pod is preferred over grinding a few beans (20 seconds), putting it in a filter and adding a carafe of water (another 60 seconds, max) and then waiting another 120 seconds for far richer, more delicious (and much cheaper) coffee. Those 3.5 minutes are just too precious to waste!


I found nice reusable filters that work with my old Keurig. Most days I drink only one or two cups. No wasted plastic pods, and the coffee grounds end up in the compost box out back. It has been especially fun using the beans I bought in Kailua-Kona.
__________________

EastWest Gal is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Usa #1, usa #1, usa #1, usa #1, dex Health and Early Retirement 14 02-07-2011 03:46 PM
Usa......usa.....usa........ Dawg52 Other topics 6 07-04-2007 10:54 PM
The Hidden Epidemic on PBS cube_rat Health and Early Retirement 0 02-15-2007 02:46 PM
USA, USA, USA... mickeyd Other topics 6 12-18-2006 03:53 PM
The obesity epidemic TromboneAl Other topics 319 10-10-2006 01:26 PM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:03 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.