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Old 04-04-2017, 10:18 AM   #81
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The problem is that most people simply eat too much. Try seriously measuring and counting the calories you consume in a typical day. I did it a few years ago over a several day stretch, and it was shocking.

Portion sizes at restaurants have grown considerably over the years, particularly at fast food restaurants.

Fast food burgers tripled in size since '50s - NY Daily News
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Old 04-04-2017, 10:22 AM   #82
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The problem is that most people simply eat too much. Try seriously measuring and counting the calories you consume in a typical day. I did it a few years ago over a several day stretch, and it was shocking.

Portion sizes at restaurants have grown considerably over the years, particularly at fast food restaurants.

Fast food burgers tripled in size since '50s - NY Daily News
This works for some folks. But it turns out for many that what you eat matters, and managing hunger/cravings is a big part of the battle, and that there are easier ways of dropping pounds that don't require calorie counting.

Yes, no question that portion sizes have mushroomed along with the obesity epidemic, and people get used to eating these massive portions. It's cheap, so the more you get, the more you eat - god forbid any of it should go to waste!

Yes, US folks in general eat way too much. How to get them to eat better? That's the challenge. And it doesn't help that they've been getting poor dietary advice for decades, that healthy food is expensive and usually requires more preparation, and that unhealthy food is cheap, abundant, and very convenient. Just a run through the drive through on the way home from work or the kids outing!
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Old 04-04-2017, 10:27 AM   #83
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...I do spend a little time on the MFP boards. It's sad to see young people posting they have no cooking ability! None, zero. Like boiled water has a recipe!

There was a recent poster who was asking for help as she was pre-diabetic and her doc told her what to avoid. Now she's admitted she had never cooked an egg and has no idea where to start. The person is lower income and didn't have any idea of how to buy food or prepare a real meal. Sadly there's a whole bunch of people who appear to be in the same situation.
We and our siblings all love to cook. And I am happy to see my children, even my son now, and their cousins all cook.

My problem is convincing them to reduce their carb intake and eat more fat and protein. I myself did not know about this, and learned from this forum. I was skeptical at first, until I followed the posted links and watched presentation after presentation made by medical experts on this subject.

Still have problem convincing people to spend the time to study this. Most people still think "food from animals bad, and food from plants good".
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Old 04-04-2017, 10:28 AM   #84
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The problem is that most people simply eat too much. Try seriously measuring and counting the calories you consume in a typical day. I did it a few years ago over a several day stretch, and it was shocking.

Portion sizes at restaurants have grown considerably over the years, particularly at fast food restaurants.

Fast food burgers tripled in size since '50s - NY Daily News
Solution: go to French restaurants. They tend to serve portions like they do in Europe.
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Old 04-04-2017, 10:30 AM   #85
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Server in Starbucks last year started to tell us that this 'pour over' was something new and implied that it was exclusive to Starbucks. She just gave my spouse a look when DW told her that we have been doing it for years. Wonder if they tell anyone that a french press is a Starbucks innovation?
The 'pour over' is about as old as me. But, if your Starbucks has one of those fancy Clover machines, do try it. It does make excellent coffee.

On to the subject at hand. A relative works is a care facility. Normally, one nursing assistant is all that should be needed to help a recovering patient get out of bed, walk to the bathroom etc. But, many are so heavy it now takes two assistants to safely get them up and away. Or they have to get a special sling and pulley assembly to hoist them into and out of bed. Either way the cost of caring for them is much higher. Perhaps that is contributing to higher medical insurance rates.

These patients need the care, but it is not their fault. The dietary advice we have been given over the last three decades simply does not work well for many of us. We were told to cut the fat and we did. When it did not work we were told to cut it even more. We did. And exercise more. We did. It just doesn't work for many people. Reality strikes again!

Like many of us, I lost 25 pounds by simply reducing the sugar and highly processed carbs in my diet. No calorie counting. No big exercise regime. I just abandoned the Fat Fear diet I was on and ate real food with whatever natural fat in contained. Bingo! The first thing I noticed was that my meals actually lasted for 4-6 hours before I got hungry again. Amazing!
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Old 04-04-2017, 10:30 AM   #86
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Note that at the same time as human obesity obesity in cats and dogs has also increased.
And that correlates with the anti-smoking campaign in the dog and cat communities.

Seriously, I think this is a classic example of a complex problem. I *do* think the turn from smoking is part of it. But also many of the other things mentioned from processed foods, to high sugar, to lack of general exercise (walking to the bus stop or job), to screens, to not cooking and just buying. It is adding up.

I was an oddity in my teens. I went on the original "low carb" diet in the mid 70s and finally became fit. Around that time, the "Basic Food Groups" talk was swinging to emphasis the "cereals and breads" group. My doctor was horrified at the site of me eating broiled burgers (no bun) daily. My uncle had a heart attack in his 40s at this time, and those burgers were the culprit, they say. (Never mind his 2 pack a day habit.) So, I became a carbo-holic overnight.

Ugh. The weight went on, and on, and on. Only until I finally woke up about 7 years ago have I been able to take some off. In the meantime, I was exercising like crazy just to keep even, with all those carbs. I ruined my knees.

I'm off to lunch now. Time for a salad drenched in olive oil.
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Old 04-04-2017, 10:34 AM   #87
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Yes, no question that portion sizes have mushroomed along with the obesity epidemic, and people get used to eating these massive portions. It's cheap, so the more you get, the more you eat - god forbid any of it should go to waste!
Part of the problem with our messed up diets is that we can eat large portions and then be hungry again very soon after. If I eat a big stack of pancakes with syrup, within three hours I am hungry again. However, if I eat a three egg cheese omelet with a big slice of ham, I may not be hungry by lunchtime. Our bodies will self regulate if we give them them the right food.
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Old 04-04-2017, 10:40 AM   #88
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I think as one gets older one has to eat more protein. But my kid who is 21, can eat just pancake and not getting hungry. This kid who has lost 40-45 lbs over the last 2 years until I told her to stop, she does watch her portions.
But my husband has egg and bacon or sausage everyday, steak or beef stew most nights has maintain a slim body.
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Old 04-04-2017, 10:47 AM   #89
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But also many of the other things mentioned from processed foods, to high sugar, to lack of general exercise (walking to the bus stop or job), to screens, to not cooking and just buying. It is adding up.
A few pounds from too much sugar, a few more from lack of exercise, a few more from too much fast food, and a few more from something else and then a lot of people reach a "tipping point" where the excess weight saps their energy so much that even moderate exercise is too much of a struggle. It's really not that hard to start exercising if you're 20 pounds overweight, but it certainly is a lot harder if you're 60 pounds overweight.
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Old 04-04-2017, 10:50 AM   #90
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Aha! I knew there'd be a "But you use a washing machine and drive a car, don't you?" response.

I haven't used a Nespresso, but have used dozens of Keurig machines and find the coffee they make to be mediocre. Plus if I want coffee for four people, I have to use 4 pods. Plus there is no scent of fresh-ground coffee (I suppose I could buy a spray!)

Anyway, we were discussing people's refusal to make any food whatseover for themselves. It may be "new ways" to eat only food that has been purchased ready-made, or freeze-dried and reconstituted, but that doesn't mean it's the best way. That's all I meant.

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When a Nespresso machine can make espresso just as well (or better) than I can, with much less equipment and counter space, then what is the point of "keeping the old ways"?

Who complains about using dishwashers or washing machines and clothes dryers, or vacuum cleaners?

I do, in fact, cook my own food from scratch because I need to control the ingredients. But I turn over tasks to machines when they do a really good job and save me a lot of trouble.
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Old 04-04-2017, 10:53 AM   #91
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You are saying people are only doing what they are told? Why don't they exercise, then?

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Tit is not their fault. The dietary advice we have been given over the last three decades simply does not work well for many of us. We were told to cut the fat and we did. When it did not work we were told to cut it even more. We did. And exercise more. We did. !
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Old 04-04-2017, 10:53 AM   #92
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Part of the problem with our messed up diets is that we can eat large portions and then be hungry again very soon after. If I eat a big stack of pancakes with syrup, within three hours I am hungry again. However, if I eat a three egg cheese omelet with a big slice of ham, I may not be hungry by lunchtime. Our bodies will self regulate if we give them them the right food.
a stack of pancakes vs a cheese omelet illustrates the problem I experienced exactly. For decades advice steered me toward the pancakes or the pasta. Maybe a push toward trying whole wheat. Most advice today would argue that the only thing that matters is how many calories each plate contains. But if one plate satisfies you longer and the other leads you to plate #2 sooner then the calories are not equivalent even if they are numerically equal. What matters is how many calories you ingest over the course of the day and the types of food you eat have a direct impact on how much you eat.
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Old 04-04-2017, 10:56 AM   #93
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Everything gets so difficult when you are ill, and old. A diabetic relative in her 60's, who is very overweight, has told me that it is very hard to eat less because her blood sugar goes crazy when she gets hungry. She has to plan and prepare every meal and snack, and it gets to be too much work, especially being on one's feet to do the meal prep. Also, her feet are swollen from the diabetes and it's hard for her to exercise.

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A few pounds from too much sugar, a few more from lack of exercise, a few more from too much fast food, and a few more from something else and then a lot of people reach a "tipping point" where the excess weight saps their energy so much that even moderate exercise is too much of a struggle. It's really not that hard to start exercising if you're 20 pounds overweight, but it certainly is a lot harder if you're 60 pounds overweight.
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Old 04-04-2017, 11:00 AM   #94
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Probably not billions of years. Eukaryotic cells made their appearance less than 2 billion years ago. The first multicellular organism may have appeared less than a billion years ago.

QUOTE=Elbata;1862647]Then less than a blink of the evolutionary eye, a mere 30 years, and 70% of US population is overweight. Incredible.

And what now is taught as the solution? Eat more fat. Oil, butter eggs. From my vantage point, we have no hope.
Absolutely eat more eggs, fish, olive oil. And leafy veggies. It doesn't mean eat 3000 calories. Eating this way leaves you less hungry, more energetic and alert as well. I find I'm satisfied on 1300-1400 calories eating this way. Also, it is much easier to get one's essential fatty acids from this way of eating.

The problem is we were told to eat low fat, and the food industry is making a killing with all the high carb and high sugar junk foods. This was codified by the U.S. government in 1977-78 in the development of the nutrition guidelines that may have had a lot of input from the food industry. Carbohydrates, grains, sugars, are cheap to produce and are shelf stable. Add a little salt and sugar and you have a really addicting food. Potato chips. Crackers are salty and sweet. Sweet cereals. The same thing happened in the UK at the same time. And they UK also has a big obesity problem. Wherever the western diet is adopted, obesity soon follows.

Delve into the subject and one realizes that Gary Taubes, Stephen Phinney MD, Andreas Eenfeldt MD, and others, may really be onto something.

Actually, the point is to basically stop eating so many carbs. If you don't get your energy from carbohydrates, you have to get it from the other macronutrients. Your choices are: fats and protein. You need protein, but if you take in enough to metabolize your protein for energy, there will be an increase in insulin levels. And excess protein does not turn into muscle, and it isn't very good for your kidneys. So that leaves fat. And some saturated fat isn't all bad, and we used to think that polyunsaturated fat was good fat, but omega-6 PUFAs are not, so it seems it's best to get most of your fat from monunsaturated fats--olive oil for example. We have essential fatty acids and essential amino acids. There are no essential carbohydrates.[/QUOTE]

Hi East West Gal, and thanks for responding. Most here, ~99.99% agree with you. I don't. I believe Gary Taubes is woefully wrong and has misled the masses. And sadly, through his misinformation, he's won the narrative.

Here's what I believe, though you'll find there's some agreement with GT, this is the exact opposite of what GT spouts:

https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/201...itikinpdf3.pdf
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Old 04-04-2017, 11:07 AM   #95
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The variety and quantity of really good ice cream is way more now than ever before. Don't overlook that factor!
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Old 04-04-2017, 11:13 AM   #96
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Not only to mention, when I am out and about, it's rare that I see an obese baby boomer (and I am in Georgia, where obesity is pretty much the norm) but folks under 50 years old? I would guess 70%+ of them are obese or damn close to it.
....
I know in the old folks homes I have seen, most are thin, which at first I thought was odd, until I realized the fat ones probably died before hitting 75 or 80.
Sure there is always an exception or two, and I'm talking about obese folks, not somebody with an extra 20 lbs.
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Old 04-04-2017, 11:15 AM   #97
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The link above is a paper by Pritikin.

I don't really think Pritikin has it all bad. He always advanced COMPLEX carbs as a solution.

Somewhere, his low fat message got perverted into low-fat cookies.

The problem I have with Pritikin is his diet is very hard to follow. A few egg whites a day, maybe, be careful of the protien! Red meat 12 times a year. Maybe a 1/2 chicken breast. And then the beans and whole grains.

Fine, but I may go crazy. Enter the sweets. They are low fat, right?

If you can do it, great. Basically, become a near-vegan, without any sweet stuff. That's difficult.

I will say this: he DOES have a point about things like gallstones and cancer. I do worry about it and don't do the complete low carb thing like I did in the 70's (less than 21 grams a day). I treat myself to generous helpings of complex carbs and try to cut out massive protein intake.
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Old 04-04-2017, 11:16 AM   #98
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I don't understand any of this. Unless I go to 3rd avenue and Pine Street, I can go weeks without seeing anyone that I would know as "obese". otoh I may see some on the bus.

Have these terms been re-defined from before? ....
Maybe it's because fat obese folks are not out hiking, walking, running, biking etc.
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Old 04-04-2017, 11:17 AM   #99
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Earlier, I invoked smoking and distracted driving, but I don't mean to imply that obesity is as straightforward as those "Just don't do it" issues. Unlike smoking, it's not straightforward "That's bad for you and those around you - don't do it."

Overweight people's appearance gets insulted. They get accused of being morally defective (lazy and gluttonous). Well, humans who are insulted, get their backs up, and won't listen. And as some are fond of reminding us, "nobody ever caused an accident after eating too much cake."

I think that as long as the cultural baggage takes attention away from a laser-like focus on the health issues of obesity, many people may continue to ignore or deprecate the health issues.
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Old 04-04-2017, 11:18 AM   #100
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In PV People walk everywhere. 10,000 steps a day is easy. Partly it is because so many wonderful views and experiences along the walks. Mountains ocean and colonial Mexico. What is not to love?

Plus making meals from scratch is cheap and delicious. Fresh fruit and vegetables. Maybe with some BBQd chicken thighs or arachara. Or a freshly roasted chicken from a small storefront, with roasted potatoes and jalapenos.

You want french fries? Sorry wrong country! Just stay away from fried taco chips.
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