Vaping and Health

TromboneAl

Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
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Jun 30, 2006
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Two questions about vaping:

1. We knew how dangerous smoking was, how did vape pens that contain unhealthy ingredients ever get approved?

2. Are there vape pens that include only healthful ingredients and aren't bad for the vapor vaper?
 
Two questions about vaping:

1. We knew how dangerous smoking was, how did vape pens that contain unhealthy ingredients ever get approved?

Maybe it's because smoking is so bad and still legal, while vaping is a lesser evil.


I know nearly nothing about vaping, but if the following is true:

2. Are there vape pens that include only healthful ingredients and aren't bad for the vapor vaper?

then vaping would be usable as an alternate means for medicine delivery.

One can vape his high blood pressure medicine, diabetic pills, etc... Lots of things to vape. :)
 
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Vape "juice" does not have to contain nicotine, so it can be just water, flavorant, propylene glycol, and vegetable glycerin. Inhaling vaporized propylene glycol and vegetable glycerin isn't known to be harmful, but then tobacco wasn't considered harmful for decades (and I'm not talking about studies being suppressed by tobacco companies, I'm talking about the era before that when people really thought it was a "tonic").

Basically, we don't know, but right now there's no proof.

Signed, someone with a degree in health education
 
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Vaping got me off cigarettes, was the only thing that worked (for more than a year)

I can tell you that vaping is better than smoking.
 
Almost certainly vaping is safer than smoking. And two stories above suggest could be useful for quitting smoking. (Congratulations to both of you.) Question is whether it is gateway to smoking which it likely is. A dilemma for sure.
 
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I can see the concern, but not the progression. The addiction is the nicotine and I still have it. But who would want to progress to foul breath, stinking house and car, holes burned in clothes, gum disease and cancer?
 
I don’t think the concern is progressing to smoking, I think the concern is progressing to higher doses of nicotine. I think the other concern is the not knowing about any issues that will come up in years or decades from now. For a smoker to use it to try to stop smoking or, even just a conscious decision to use the lesser of two evils makes sense. Unfortunately, I’m in the camp that it should be strongly discouraged. Basically, if you haven’t started, don’t and if you have, try to quit.

I have read articles about taking vitamins via vaping. Even with that, the jury is out on whether that could cause damage to the lungs.

I think it’s too soon and I wouldn’t want to be this products’ guinea pig. I hope I can keep my grand kids away from it.
 
I can see the concern, but not the progression. The addiction is the nicotine and I still have it. But who would want to progress to foul breath, stinking house and car, holes burned in clothes, gum disease and cancer?
So I am a happy vaper now solidly addicted to nicotine. Damn the batteries are out on my vaporizer or I can't find a vape store and I am out of solution and I am starting to feel jittery. Where oh where can I find some nicotine to inhale. Maybe get some gum or a patch but those delivery systems just don't give that quick hit or satisfy the need for the rituals of intake. Some can definitely see the progression.
 
Im pretty sure I have seen/heard recent studies saying vaping is bad for you, including possible brain damage. I’ll see if I can find something...
 
I don't cough anymore and I don't hack up the brown lugies every morning. My teeth cleanings are not a source of pain like they were and my "pockets" have stabilized with no more bone loss.

I agree, kids shouldn't vape. Shouldn't smoke, drink, do drugs or have sex.

What's new?
 
Monday night, CNBC had an interesting one hour special on vaping: "Vaporized: America's E-Cigarette Addiction".

Some show info here: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/27/cnb...la-premieres-monday-july-15-at-10pm-etpt.html

I expect it will be repeated, could check CNBC website for rerun times and dates. Worth watching. Interesting that Juul Lab's juice has 5% nicotine in the US, but only 1 - 2% nicotine in Europe.

My opinion - it's drug addiction in sheep's clothing.
 
One thing I find interesting. I'm an ex-smoker, twenty years, I quit because of degenerative disc disorder. When I talk to specialists they know I vape and combust cannabis, no one says a word. Mention nicotine and they go batty.

I quit tobacco cold turkey. DW did it her way by vaping and cutting back. I don't know what we will learn in the future about vaping but for now its popular.
 
I don't vape or smoke but in my view vaping must be at least 10 times safer than cigarettes?? Not that anything taken in through the lungs would be safe except clean air.

Sure there is nicotine and a few other ingredients but are not there not a lot of foreign particles in cigarette smoke (tar, ash) that are not present in vaping? That it is like breathing in the air from a hot shower vs a Beijing street corner?
 
We know smoking is bad. Very bad.

We know vaping is bad. We just don't know how bad yet.

Time will tell if vaping is a safer (not safe) alternative to smoking, or if it's a fast track to terrible cancers, lung disease, etc. later in life. We can make educated guesses based on the known chemicals in vape juice, but we won't truly know until a generation or two of vapers grow old and we look at the effects of vaping retrospectively.
 
That still doesn't get you past the point of having a large white cloud around yourself in public, you can always tell when someone ahead of you on the road is vaping. I view it as a rather douchebag thing to do around others...right along with smoking.
 
T-Al’s question has two aspects. One is the substance being vaped, the other is the chemical process and mechanism used to convert the substance.

Regarding the mechanism, we probably don’t know. The chemical used, polyethylene glycol, is considered safe, but it is being transformed in the process, and we have little research on that. Sort of like “high fructose corn syrup”, which in theory should not be a problem but in reality appears to be. We know that frying some foods makes them unhealthy.

Regarding the substance, it can only be as safe as the ingredients. When we consume CBD, THC, or even nicotine, do we know if any other ingredients have been added? Perhaps the original plants were cultivated with pesticides that have a more toxic effect when vaporized.

There seems to be a presumption of unharmful, but it is not evidence based.
 
1 & 2 - We don't know for sure, these things have come to market very quickly and the regulation around them maybe... skimpy?

2 - Pens don't really include ingredients, it's all those little charges that do, and those aren't always proprietary to the pen. There are Vape stores in every strip mall, don't tell me all those are safely properly vetted and tested.

So many things are presumed safe then found out later....eh not so much. Now, if a 30 year smoker who has failed every other attempt and finds they can quit by using a vape pen - Sure, go for it. Chances are it's not as bad as smoking.

But for teens or young folks to take these up as a brand new habit alarms me.

And getting caught in someone's vape cloud feels grosser to me than a whiff of 2nd hand smoke.
 
That still doesn't get you past the point of having a large white cloud around yourself in public, you can always tell when someone ahead of you on the road is vaping. I view it as a rather douchebag thing to do around others...right along with smoking.


Our local and state governments have strict smoking restrictions, and they've recently updated many signs to state that vaping is prohibited also where smoking is prohibited. Personally, I find second-hand smoke much more noxious, to the point that it makes my throat close up (I don't believe it's an allergic reaction, but it really does become hard to inhale to the point where it feels like I'm choking) but neither is pleasant.
 
I don't really understand why folks would enjoy sucking vapor from an explosive device.

Maybe that's just me...
 
my .02. I haven't had a cigarette since the day I bought a vape pen, ~5yrs. have gone from 18mg to 6mg since. have no idea what exactly what that means (ppm? %p/oz? mg/p bottle?), but have reduced it. haven't craved or thought about cigs at all. vaping satisfies the nicotine addiction, the inhaling habit, and the hand-to-mouth habit. ok with it being disallowed anywhere smoking is; was used to that when I smoked. doctor has approved and encouraged. for every pro article, there's a con one, like most issues today. thanks for caring
 
I have read articles about taking vitamins via vaping. Even with that, the jury is out on whether that could cause damage to the lungs.
And the impact on dosage given such a direct into the bloodstream method.
 
Do you want the accurate answer or the useful one?

Think like a data miner and you'd see fertile ground for theses and dissertations. You'd look forward to years of grant-funded number-crunching, with an endless list of factors and responses to study: brand/flavor/additives of juice, delivery system, environment, age, income, education, parallel substance consumption, medical history, location, social status, ethnicity, gender identification, etc. You'd withhold comment until your own study is published.

Think like a gambler instead of a researcher and you'd bet that the results of any given study will look something like this: vaping has been shown to be associated with X% increase in the risk of disease Y. Just like all other research studies on all other topics do.

Think like an activist and you'd disparage both vaping and smoking, except for legalizing marijuana.

Think like a chemist and you'd describe how Juul inhalants are the generally predictable gas phase of mostly innocuous juice ingredients rather than a highly variable mixture of combusted and semi-combusted carcinogens.

Think like a vape manufacturer and you'd plan for evolution in the ingredients of your juices. Each new version would be marketed as an increase in pleasure and/or reduction in health risk.

Think like an economist and you'd point out an unintended consequence of tobacco taxes. As smoke from the lit end is pre-filtered by the tobacco at the rear, it will leave creosote-like deposits on the unburned leaves. When cigarettes were inexpensive, smokers might light one but go through only half before discarding the more tar-infested remainder. As taxes increased tobacco's price, I now observe the same smokers burning each one down to the filter to extract the maximum value - as well as the maximum tar/nicotine/ash/monoxide/poison - from their increasingly costly resource. Vaping does not present this mechanism.

Think like a vaper and you'd argue that you typically take only one or two hits per occurrence, not the two dozen draws it takes to consume a full cigarette. So even if the vape juice is as full of nasty stuff as are tobacco fumes, a vaper will inhale fewer toxins.

Finally, think like an ordinary schlemiel (i.e., me) whose only data is anecdotal observations of people who have successfully used vaping as a means to wean off cigarettes. You might regard it as the lesser of two evils.
 
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