Do You Really Like to Travel?

[razztazz]

The "quality" of air travel has also degraded significantly -- unless you are in first class or flying a foreign carrier.

I haven't flown since early 2002 just a few months after 9/11 so all I know is what I read in the papers. I have heard the above quote many many times.

So, what is it that foreign airlines do that makes them able to stay in business AND not be a'h*les that the vaunted American Way can't get a handle on?

 

[Nemo2]

This Sofia, Bulgaria, lady, that I observed today, was upgrading the Jesonian tradition, turning water (bottles) into wine (bottles)......also saw her fill a Coke bottle, (and, looking at a couple of her clients, the occasional bleach bottle wouldn't surprise me at all):

 

[WestUniversity]

-
Life's a Dance and You Learn As You Go......

Thanks for the Randy Rogers song. Interstate is one of my favorites!

 

[CoolRich59]

I haven't flown since early 2002 just a few months after 9/11 so all I know is what I read in the papers. I have heard the above quote many many times.

So, what is it that foreign airlines do that makes them able to stay in business AND not be a'h*les that the vaunted American Way can't get a handle on?

Great question, but I don't have the answer.

I *think* a lot of foreign carriers are subsidized by tax dollars which helps. But, that shouldn't have an impact on the "tone" of the service.

My guess is that the same economic pressures that have led to galley slave flying experience also impact the salaries and benefits of the airline employees which poisons their morale and attitude.

In addition, as they're required to enforce a lot of security provisions, I think they do start to adopt a "guard" mentality.

The contrast really did strike me on that flight I mentioned. I had a bad back at the time and it was difficult to stay seated for a long flight. So, I would get up and walk up and down the aisle and hang out by the gallery to give my back some relief.

On the Lufthansa flight, the attendant got me some water and just asked that I keep out of the way. The Delta attendant comes up and says "Go back to your seat". I told her I was just trying to take the pressure off my back for a few minutes. She barks "If you don't take your seat right now, I'll have you arrested".

Oookay, I surrender!

 

[Nemo2]

The Delta attendant comes up and says "Go back to your seat". I told her I was just trying to take the pressure off my back for a few minutes. She barks "If you don't take your seat right now, I'll have you arrested".

Oookay, I surrender!

Sounds like Delta mirrors Air Canada, whose 'unofficial' motto is "We're not happy until you're not happy"..............we will never voluntarily fly with them again.

 

[audreyh1]

View attachment 27091

 

[NW-Bound]

Darn, I need to go back to Venice to check this out. Have not been back since 2003.

I have not been to Sofia either. So many places to visit, so little time (and energy).

 

[razztazz]

I *think* a lot of foreign carriers are subsidized by tax dollars which helps.

Yes. I avoided stating this because I was afraid it would be taken as politicizing

But, that shouldn't have an impact on the "tone" of the service.

I can see where it would impact that

My guess is that the same economic pressures that have led to galley slave flying experience also impact the salaries and benefits of the airline employees which poisons their morale and attitude.

Typical business model.

In addition, as they're required to enforce a lot of security provisions, I think they do start to adopt a "guard" mentality.

The contrast really did strike me on that flight I mentioned. I had a bad back at the time and it was difficult to stay seated for a long flight. So, I would get up and walk up and down the aisle and hang out by the gallery to give my back some relief.

On the Lufthansa flight, the attendant got me some water and just asked that I keep out of the way. The Delta attendant comes up and says "Go back to your seat". I told her I was just trying to take the pressure off my back for a few minutes. She barks "If you don't take your seat right now, I'll have you arrested".

Oookay, I surrender!

Getting back to Life's Words to Live By from the movie "Killdozer:" Never have anything you care about losing. I never liked flying anyway.

 

[RetireAge50]

Are these wines by the glass? Wow! - didn't see prices anywhere that low in The Netherlands

Yes by the glass. This was a small hole in the wall place. Everyone was stopping to get the cheap wine. Not sure the quality but the 3 glasses I had were good. The restaurants were charging like 5 euros so maybe we just stoped by at the right time.

 

[audreyh1]

Yes by the glass. This was a small hole in the wall place. Everyone was stopping to get the cheap wine. Not sure the quality but the 3 glasses I had were good. The restaurants were charging like 5 euros so maybe we just stoped by at the right time.

Yeah - 5 euros is more typical of what I saw at nice and finer dining establishments in Amsterdam. 5 typical at nice but inexpensive places, and was where prices started at the finer dining places.

 

[Chuckanut]

Are these wines by the glass? Wow! - didn't see prices anywhere that low in The Netherlands

Just back from Europe a few weeks ago.

At one big city fancy place I paid (gulp!!) $3.00 for an espresso. Well, they did have a great view, outside on a very warm autumn night.

In a medium size town at a small cafe on a side street I paid about $1.35 for an espresso and a small pastry.

 

[audreyh1]

Certainly prices are lower away from main tourist areas or fancy views.

It was easy to find cheap breakfast deals including beverages in many cities.

 

[ears20]

Good answer. I think it is a sign of respect. They acknowledged your effort but decided to communicate. We get that a lot in foreign countries.

Couldn't agree more. So many times my stumbling greeting in the local language not only elicits a response in English but seems to do a little bit of bridge-building as well.

 

[audreyh1]

The French really want visitors to speak French - at least attempt the basics. I worked hard to learn the routine "politesse" - the very expected greetings, goodbyes (even when entering and leaving a place of business), polite enquiries, asking in French if the person spoke English, etc. My attempts were always treated with appreciation, and there were times the person went ahead and conducted the entire exchange in French obviously indulging me.

There were a few times in smaller Provence cities where I needed help from someone who did not speak English and it was a relief to be able to communicate my needs and understand the answer.

The Dutch on the other hand - they switch right to English which they apparently do for anyone who doesn't sound completely native.

 

[WestUniversity]

The French really want visitors to speak French - at least attempt the basics. I worked hard to learn the routine "politesse" - the very expected greetings, goodbyes (even when entering and leaving a place of business), polite enquiries, asking in French if the person spoke English, etc. My attempts were always treated with appreciation, and there were times the person went ahead and conducted the entire exchange in French obviously indulging me.

There were a few times in smaller Provence cities where I needed help from someone who did not speak English and it was a relief to be able to communicate my needs and understand the answer.

The Dutch on the other hand - they switch right to English which they apparently do for anyone who doesn't sound completely native.

Whenever we travel in Europe I always learn enough of the “where is”, “I want”, “we need”, “please” and “thank you” phrases to initially speak to the locals in their own language.

Everyone has always been very polite and appreciative, even if I butcher their mother tongue. In fact inevitably they have responded back in English.

In my experience, particularly in the larger cities, the locals speak their own native tongue, as well as English, and one or two other languages at least at a conversational level.

It’s sad that by comparison so many Americans can barely speak English...

 

[braumeister]

In my experience, particularly in the larger cities, the locals speak their own native tongue, as well as English, and one or two other languages at least at a conversational level.

Not only that, but local dialects are sometimes practically another language entirely. Try speaking German with someone in Zurich and you'll be very lucky to understand half of what they say. Same with Dutch in Bruges. I don't think we have local dialects anywhere near that pronounced in North America.

 

[audreyh1]

Not only that, but local dialects are sometimes practically another language entirely. Try speaking German with someone in Zurich and you'll be very lucky to understand half of what they say. Same with Dutch in Bruges. I don't think we have local dialects anywhere near that pronounced in North America.

No - dialects are the result of many 100s of years of low population mobility and lack of broadcast media.

Spain has five official Spanish languages. I can't begin to understand Catalan. Everyone speaks Castilian though, so no probs communicating.

In France everyone speaks the standard French although I'm told regional accents are obvious. In southern France they also speak Provençal and closely related Occitan although I never saw signs or anything in it.

My last trip to Belgium they were speaking French and German! This was just inside the border not far from Aachen. My SIL was expecting to speak Dutch/Flemish, but had to resort to English. German is completely unintelligible to her.

 

[Totoro]

Are these wines by the glass? Wow! - didn't see prices anywhere that low in The Netherlands

Italy and Netherlands are very different places economically. GDP per capita in NL is 50% higher I think, and a lot less revenue 'off the books'.

My last trip to Belgium they were speaking French and German! This was just inside the border not far from Aachen.

You were square in the french speaking part (Wallonia) of Belgium, and probably in one of the towns Belgium got as compensation for WWI (Eupen/Malmedy). That's where the German comes from. The French speaking part never spoke Dutch/Flemish well, it's just an annoying course in high school for them.

 

[MichaelB]

Dialects and languages are fun, and interesting. My uneducated guess is with such a history of conflict and invasions across European regions over the centuries, dialects and languages evolved as a way for locals to talk without being understood by outsiders.

In the US, I think some dialects almost qualify as foreign languages. There is also an effort in some regions to preserve language that reflect's one's ethnic heritage.

 

[Totoro]

Nah, language drifts naturally. Birds of the same species in different valleys develop dialects, same thing with dolphin 'tweets'.

It's all tied into mobility and scale. American dialects can't really diverge that much since they are mobile and well connected. You can even see that on a micro-scale: every family, household and small firm have their own 'thing' that an outsider might have trouble to understand easily without context.

Every other continent has more languages and dialects because they had large populations that weren't nearly as mobile. In fact, as we all live in modern times now dialects and languages are dying out at a record pace. From the wiki:

The general consensus is that there are between 6000 and 7000 languages currently spoken, and that between 50 and 90% of them will have become extinct by 2100.

 

[Ronstar]

In the US, I think some dialects almost qualify as foreign languages.

The Boston dialect comes to mind. On our recent trip, I had a little difficulty understanding Bostonians.

 

[braumeister]

The Boston dialect comes to mind. On our recent trip, I had a little difficulty understanding Bostonians.

I think that's just an accent, not really a dialect. The most difficult accent for me has been in backwoods Maine. I grew up in Brooklyn, which has (or at least had) its own peculiar accent.

 

[Dawg52]

I like the adventure of travel. I guess being in unfamiliar surrounds for a short period

A little of that goes a long way for me.

I'm more of a familiar surroundings kind of guy. Buying a condo on the coast gives me a nice break from my primary home. When I get tired of my home and the condo, I will take a trip somewhere else. But that doesn't happen very often as I'm pretty content with my normal life.

 

[audreyh1]

The Boston dialect comes to mind. On our recent trip, I had a little difficulty understanding Bostonians.

Those are accents. If you go to England you'll notice an incredible range of accents after traveling relatively short distances compared to the US.

 

[MichaelB]

I'm not so sure. My cousin and I spent lots of time together when we were young, and we spoke the same language. Now, when we get together, I need someone to help translate.