Flying: A Necessary Evil

[braumeister]

My best flights were on Pan Am between Miami and Rio de Janeiro. I flew that route (among others) so often in the 80s that my frequent flyer points always let me upgrade to business class. They were all 747s, and I normally got a seat in the upper deck.

One time I was upgraded to first class and I was absolutely blown away. Champagne before and after takeoff.
Meals were selected from an extensive menu, and were actually cooked with stovetop and oven (no microwave nonsense here) to order.
Good china, glassware and silverware.
In general, it was easy to see why Pan Am is no longer in business.

Side note: Due to my enormous volume of Pan Am flying, I eventually wound up with a lifetime pass to their Clipper Clubs (airport lounges). When they went belly-up, Delta bought their routes and much to my amazement, I got a nice letter from Delta letting me know that I now had a lifetime membership in Delta's equivalent Crown Room program. Since most flights available to me locally are Delta flights, I have taken liberal advantage of that. And when Delta merged with Northwest, I got another nice letter stating that I still have that delightful privilege.

 

[Mulligan]

Braumeister, you flew Pan Am and are still alive to talk about it? How old are you? 95? Was the experience black and white or was color even invented back then?


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[Nemo2]

Braumeister, you flew Pan Am and are still alive to talk about it? How old are you? 95? Was the experience black and white or was color even invented back then?

Once in a while, in the 1980s, I flew between Dhahran and NYC on the Pan Am 'Slingshot'...Jumbos, kinda like a troop ship, packed to the gills, a high preponderance of oil workers....smoking was permitted (I didn't) and the only women I ever saw on the planes were the flight attendants.........13 hours of "Are we there yet?"

 

[Mulligan]

Once in a while, in the 1980s, I flew between Dhahran and NYC on the Pan Am 'Slingshot'...Jumbos, kinda like a troop ship, packed to the gills, a high preponderance of oil workers....smoking was permitted (I didn't) and the only women I ever saw on the planes were the flight attendants.........13 hours of "Are we there yet?"

I must admit...I grew up back in time when "only rich people flew". So I don't complain about air travel today. In fact I looked at a newspaper I had from the 80s recently that actually showed daily flight prices (pre internet of course).The cost of flying today is no more than what was posted in those papers from the 80s!
I have to admit I just love watching old shows such as Original Hawaii 5-0 episodes that would have a pregnant women drinking and smoking on an airplane. Hilarious to watch, but I couldn't even imagine someone smoking next to me in a plane for a 3 hour flight.... Ugh!


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[Nemo2]

I couldn't even imagine someone smoking next to me in a plane for a 3 hour flight.... Ugh!

On one of the 13 hour Dharhan to JFK trips I got stuck next to a fat chain smoker.......have a beer or three and try to sleep....(and keep repeating "At least I'm out of Saudi for a while").

 

[audreyh1]

I must admit...I grew up back in time when "only rich people flew". So I don't complain about air travel today. In fact I looked at a newspaper I had from the 80s recently that actually showed daily flight prices (pre internet of course).The cost of flying today is no more than what was posted in those papers from the 80s!

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I think it's cheaper today. Prices seem to keep coming down. Amazing!

 

[Mulligan]

On one of the 13 hour Dharhan to JFK trips I got stuck next to a fat chain smoker.......have a beer or three and try to sleep....(and keep repeating "At least I'm out of Saudi for a while").

Needless to say Nemo.....An unforgettable experience... I have not flown when smoking was allowed. So I always am amused by the "no smoking" announcement at depart. Obviously it has some memory for you!


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[MRG]

Needless to say Nemo.....An unforgettable experience... I have not flown when smoking was allowed. So I always am amused by the "no smoking" announcement at depart. Obviously it has some memory for you!


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I'm an ex smoker(quit in 2000). Regrettably smoked for 25 years, after the first time smoking in the back of the tube; I never smoked in another airplane. Yuch even as a smoker that was just wrong, suffocating and smelly.

Can't imagine what a non-smoker would feel like.

 

[audreyh1]

I remember flying to Hawaii in the last "non smoking" row. Guy behind me doesn't stop smoking. Then he has an epileptic seizure. We're well over the Pacific Ocean. For a while the crew is wondering whether to turn around but decide they have to go on to Honolulu. It may have been that a doctor passenger on board diagnosed what had happened. At least the smoking stopped.

I remember being so relieved when smoking was banned on flights.

 

[aja8888]

Here's one to top:

When traveling back and forth to Indonesia in the early 80's, I flew Garuda Airlines when they JV'd with Continental. I remember one of the planes was painted "Garuda Airlines" on one side of the fuselage and "Continental" on the other side!

I also flew Garuda between the Indonesian islands and those were some flights...passengers smoked clove cigarettes, half the emergency exit doors were placarded as "broken", no seat belts...etc.

 

[athena53]

I must admit...I grew up back in time when "only rich people flew". So I don't complain about air travel today. In fact I looked at a newspaper I had from the 80s recently that actually showed daily flight prices (pre internet of course).The cost of flying today is no more than what was posted in those papers from the 80s!

Yes, but the quality has deteriorated significantly. My cynical observation in shelling out (miles or $$) for Business Class is that you're buying back the experience you used to get in Coach, but with less reliability that you'll take off and land on time.

I wanted to add another "unusual airplane" experience: in 1980 I was in Puerto Rico for a conference and a friend and I decided to fly to the Virgin Islands for the day. He was tickled to find that the plane was a DC-3; in the military he'd parachuted out of a few of them. (At the time we took the flight he was 47 and I was 27.) I had to laugh when I visited the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum years later and found a DC-3 on display.

 

[Nemo2]

in 1980 I was in Puerto Rico for a conference and a friend and I decided to fly to the Virgin Islands for the day. He was tickled to find that the plane was a DC-3; in the military he'd parachuted out of a few of them. (At the time we took the flight he was 47 and I was 27.) I had to laugh when I visited the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum years later and found a DC-3 on display.

Reminds me of boarding a BVI Air tail-dragger in Puerto Rico some 30+ years ago......first to board, at the rear door, I had to wake up the stew who was asleep in the back row........then we taxied, and taxied, and taxied.....until some little old lady with a heavy New York Jewish accent called out to her husband "Harry, are we going to drive to Tortola?"

 

[38Chevy454]

Started my engineering career at McDonnell Douglas - Douglas Aircraft Co in 1987. Used to do a lot of failure analysis, and would get parts that had a layer of nicotine/smoke film on them! The film was from the smoking in the plane. The parts also smelled bad from the smoke film. Can't imagine what the inside of the fresh air recirc systems would have looked like. Mine were mostly structural parts.

I also did some work supporting the older aircraft including DC-3's. There are still a lot of them flying, although most are now cargo duty since insurance is too high for passengers. They are popular for delivery use in South America and Alaska type conditions where unimproved and short runways are common.

 

[Meadbh]

This morning's revelation that the GermanWings copilot deliberately crashed the Airbus 320 in the Alps is very frightening. Was he suicidal (which has happened before) or was he a closet terrorist?

No matter how save aviation technology has become, ultimately, stepping on a plane requires putting one's trust in another human being.

 

[audreyh1]

This morning's revelation that the GermanWings copilot deliberately crashed the Airbus 320 in the Alps is very frightening. Was he suicidal (which has happened before) or was he a closet terrorist?

No matter how save aviation technology has become, ultimately, stepping on a plane requires putting one's trust in another human being.

I read about that too, and I was very shocked!!!

 

[Nemo2]

Was he suicidal (which has happened before) or was he a closet terrorist?

My first thought was that he was attempting to "Show somebody".....i.e. an ex (male or female) lover.

 

[W2R]

This morning's revelation that the GermanWings copilot deliberately crashed the Airbus 320 in the Alps is very frightening. Was he suicidal (which has happened before) or was he a closet terrorist?

No matter how save aviation technology has become, ultimately, stepping on a plane requires putting one's trust in another human being.

This morning's news about this was such a shocking revelation. Nevertheless, I am hoping it does not deter those here who have a fervent desire to travel. Lots of people arrive at their destinations safely and we never notice. Events like this get a lot of our attention, I suppose due to the fact that they rarely happen.

So shocking, so sad.

 

[kombat]

How many times now have locking cockpit doors caused - or almost caused - disaster?


How many times have the reinforced cockpit doors prevented terrorists from storming the cockpit?


Maybe the reinforced, locking cockpit doors were a misguided knee-jerk reaction to 9/11? Is it time to revisit the idea?

 

[pb4uski]

....I normally got a seat in the upper deck.....

Your post brought back a nice memory. I recall one day being on a flight from London to the US before 9/11 in a 747. I decided to take a stroll and wandered up to the upper deck, which was empty... however the cockpit door was open. I strolled forward and was checking it out and the pilot noticed me loitering there and invited me into the cockpit. We were well above the clouds so there wasn't much to see but clouds but it was interesting nonetheless.

This morning's news about this was such a shocking revelation. Nevertheless, I am hoping it does not deter those here who have a fervent desire to travel. Lots of people arrive at their destinations safely and we never notice. Events like this get a lot of our attention, I suppose due to the fact that they rarely happen.

So shocking, so sad.

Yes, it certainly is shocking and sad and would cause me to pause, but probably not enough to stop traveling.

 

[Lakewood90712]

How many times now have locking cockpit doors caused - or almost caused - disaster?


How many times have the reinforced cockpit doors prevented terrorists from storming the cockpit?


Maybe the reinforced, locking cockpit doors were a misguided knee-jerk reaction to 9/11? Is it time to revisit the idea?

Don't know. IMO, these days, passengers and flight attendants would stop any hostile action , using extraordinary means if needed , and the reinforced doors were never needed.

I do know on US carriers, with a 2 member cockpit crew , if one leaves to use the lavatory , a flight attendant or dead heading off duty pilot enters until the on duty pilot returns. Always a second person present. Apparently non us carriers don't necessarily do this.

 

[Mulligan]

Yes, but the quality has deteriorated significantly. My cynical observation in shelling out (miles or $$) for Business Class is that you're buying back the experience you used to get in Coach, but with less reliability that you'll take off and land on time.

I wanted to add another "unusual airplane" experience: in 1980 I was in Puerto Rico for a conference and a friend and I decided to fly to the Virgin Islands for the day. He was tickled to find that the plane was a DC-3; in the military he'd parachuted out of a few of them. (At the time we took the flight he was 47 and I was 27.) I had to laugh when I visited the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum years later and found a DC-3 on display.

I have the benefit from "you don't miss what you never had". I have only flown much the past 10-15 years so being treated like cattle is my only experience. I only have one goal when flying.... That the passenger next to me doesnt try annex part of my paid for seat with their girth.


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[Mulligan]

Don't know. IMO, these days, passengers and flight attendants would stop any hostile action , using extraordinary means if needed , and the reinforced doors were never needed.



I do know on US carriers, with a 2 member cockpit crew , if one leaves to use the lavatory , a flight attendant or dead heading off duty pilot enters until the on duty pilot returns. Always a second person present. Apparently non us carriers don't necessarily do this.

That is what the media was saying today. Definitely a tragic situation, but I do not know if the locked cabin rule is worse than the opposite I had last year. Unbeknownst to me our last leg of a flight to USVI from Puerto Rico was a puddle jumper. My GF was sitting in "the co pilots" seat. The pilot was about 55 and I was thinking, "if he has a heart attack right now we are so screwed". Amazing what thoughts enter your head.


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[razztazz]

I do know on US carriers, with a 2 member cockpit crew , if one leaves to use the lavatory , a flight attendant or dead heading off duty pilot enters until the on duty pilot returns. Always a second person present. Apparently non us carriers don't necessarily do this.

I heard a pilot type on one of the talking shows last night who said this was standard procedure for all airlines, not just U.S. Apparently like any other rule in every other walk of life, it isn't always followed.

 

[Meadbh]

I heard a pilot type on one of the talking shows last night who said this was standard procedure for all airlines, not just U.S. Apparently like any other rule in every other walk of life, it isn't always followed.

It is not standard procedure for all airlines. This morning, at least four non-US airlines have changed their policies.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...pts-airlines-to-introduce-cockpit-rule-of-two

Edited to add: the Canadian Minister of Transport has decreed that all commercial flights in Canada must immediately obey the "rule of two".

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/german...old-to-have-2-people-in-the-cockpit-1.3010494

 

[MRG]

It is not standard procedure for all airlines. This morning, at least four non-US airlines have changed their policies.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...pts-airlines-to-introduce-cockpit-rule-of-two

Thanks, seems like a good idea.