Flying: A Necessary Evil

[razztazz]

It is not standard procedure for all airlines. This morning, at least four non-US airlines have changed their policies.

Germanwings crash prompts airlines to introduce cockpit 'rule of two' | World news | The Guardian

Thanks. This is good to know. The "expert" gave the kind of answer that had the air of phony assurance most of these people adopt whenever they have a mic in their face. Personally, I didn't even trust US airlines to have this one covered. The taking guy did press him to reiterate that it was NOT just a US rule and he did. Another reason not to listen to someone presented as an expert.

 

[Meadbh]

Thanks. This is good to know. The "expert" gave the kind of answer that had the air of phony assurance most of these people adopt whenever they have a mic in their face. Personally, I didn't even trust US airlines to have this one covered. The taking guy did press him to reiterate that it was NOT just a US rule and he did. Another reason not to listen to someone presented as an expert.

Anyone who flies outside the U.S. has probably seen a pilot emerge from the cockpit for a washroom break. To those observers, such an "expert" statement would not have face validity, unless one assumes that airline procedures were being violated on a daily basis.

 

[oldphd]

I remember flying to Hawaii in the last "non smoking" row. Guy behind me doesn't stop smoking. Then he has an epileptic seizure. We're well over the Pacific Ocean. For a while the crew is wondering whether to turn around but decide they have to go on to Honolulu. It may have been that a doctor passenger on board diagnosed what had happened. At least the smoking stopped.

I remember being so relieved when smoking was banned on flights.

Back in the mid 80s I was flying from somewhere in Europe to Sweden on SAS. Had an aisle seat in the non smoking section. Turns out the smoking/non smoking divide was the aisle, so if you sat on the left, you could smoke. Right side, you couldn't. Kind of made the whole concept worthless. Count me as another who was happy to see the end to smoking on flights.

 

[braumeister]

the smoking/non smoking divide was the aisle, so if you sat on the left, you could smoke. Right side, you couldn't.

That arrangement was common in South America too.

As someone said, it was a lot like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.

 

[Mulligan]

That arrangement was common in South America too.



As someone said, it was a lot like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.

I need to go workout....but if you can keep coming up with lines like that, I will stay and skip the workout. Hilarious!


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[Amethyst]

At least 2nd-hand P won't kill you.

About 25 years ago, my employer sent me to Seoul. As a DoD employee, I flew coach...no business class for us! The whole trip, including connections, took 27 hours. I could not sleep. And the cross-Pacific flight was full to the brim with smokers. Also, vomiters-in-the-aisle. The lavatories quickly became unspeakable. When what was left of me finally arrived in Seoul, I was detained by airport authorities who'd inspected my luggage and found a set of walker's arm weights - the kind that wrap around your wrist with Velcro. Everyone was yelling at me in Korean, and when an English-speaker finally appeared, it transpired that they thought I was a North Korean agent and the wrap weights were plastic explosives!

I survived the experience (and went on to have a good time for the week I was in Seoul) because I was young....

Amethyst

 

[meierlde]

This morning's revelation that the GermanWings copilot deliberately crashed the Airbus 320 in the Alps is very frightening. Was he suicidal (which has happened before) or was he a closet terrorist?

No matter how save aviation technology has become, ultimately, stepping on a plane requires putting one's trust in another human being.

Of course its also true of riding a bus or indeed a taxi, or a railroad. After hearing this I do wonder how many auto "accidents" are really the driver trying to kill himself and his passengers.

 

[Chuckanut]

Today's WSJ has an interesting article on how those new entertainment systems are causing loss of foot space to their electronic boxes which are often placed under seats where bags and feet are supposed to go. It's hard to believe the guys and gals who run the airlines did not think about how uncomfortable this is for many of their customers.

This may be behind a pay wall: http://www.wsj.com/articles/is-more-entertainment-worth-less-legroom-on-your-flight-1427304252

Me? I would gladly trade the entertainment systems and power outlets for another 2 to 3 inches of leg and foot room.

 

[Walt34]

I also did some work supporting the older aircraft including DC-3's. There are still a lot of them flying, although most are now cargo duty since insurance is too high for passengers.

I had the chance to fly in a DC-3 on the way back from St. Thomas in 1978. We'd flown in on a small model 727 but took the local airline (Air Caribbean) flew the leg back to Puerto Rico, where we transferred to a 727 for home. I enjoyed it, like a trip back to 1935!

 

[check6]

Started my engineering career at McDonnell Douglas - Douglas Aircraft Co in 1987.

One of the best planes your company made was the DC-10. Of course that was after they re engineered the cargo doors.

 

[Meadbh]

I had the chance to fly in a DC-3 on the way back from St. Thomas in 1978. We'd flown in on a small model 727 but took the local airline (Air Caribbean) flew the leg back to Puerto Rico, where we transferred to a 727 for home. I enjoyed it, like a trip back to 1935!

That would be amazing, because the DC3 only went into passenger service in 1936!
Though, to be fair, they did build a prototype in 1935.

Douglas DC-3 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Walt34]

That would be amazing, because the DC3 only went into passenger service in 1936!
Though, to be fair, they did build a prototype in 1935.

Douglas DC-3 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oops! I knew it was mid-30's but didn't know the exact year. Ya got me.

 

[Meadbh]

Oops! I knew it was mid-30's but didn't know the exact year. Ya got me.

Sorry for being a nitpicker, Walt. But you know, INTJ and all that......

 

[JoeWras]

Love driving, dislike flying, but flying is necessary for over the pond excursions.

I had a recent near miss on a USA Interstate recently. Driver in oncoming traffic fell asleep at 4pm. It was a lightly traveled road. Came across the median and crossed our lanes without incident. He had 3 passengers too.

This was out of the blue on a nice day. Luckily, nobody was seriously injured, but the car was toast. A few seconds difference would have had a very different outcome. It really got me thinking about driving. I still love it, but much less after this near miss.

You may have crazy pilots out there, but driving is still way more dangerous.

 

[rodi]

Today's WSJ has an interesting article on how those new entertainment systems are causing loss of foot space to their electronic boxes which are often placed under seats where bags and feet are supposed to go. It's hard to believe the guys and gals who run the airlines did not think about how uncomfortable this is for many of their customers.

This may be behind a pay wall: Is More Entertainment Worth Less Legroom on Your Flight? - WSJ

Me? I would gladly trade the entertainment systems and power outlets for another 2 to 3 inches of leg and foot room.

This is the reason I still use seatguru.com... to avoid sitting in a seat with no storage/foot room. On some planes it's EVERY "c" and "d" seat - so every aisle seat.....

 

[maloney50]

Big people little seats made of plastic make it no fun, at least on united jet blue was great the last time I flew there. The accountants run united.


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[athena53]

Big people little seats made of plastic make it no fun, at least on united. jet blue was great the last time I flew there. The accountants run united.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the accountants have gotten to JetBlue, too, in the form of investment analysts. They've been criticizing JetBlue for years for spending too much time and money on customer service and comfortable seats, and JetBlue is apparently starting to join the race to the bottom with the other airlines.

 

[marko]

Here's one to top:

When traveling back and forth to Indonesia in the early 80's, I flew Garuda Airlines when they JV'd with Continental. I remember one of the planes was painted "Garuda Airlines" on one side of the fuselage and "Continental" on the other side!

I also flew Garuda between the Indonesian islands and those were some flights...passengers smoked clove cigarettes, half the emergency exit doors were placarded as "broken", no seat belts...etc.

Late 70's I flew a few times from Honolulu to Christmas Island (Kiribati) in the Pacific for business; well before the island was opened for the general public. "Air Nauru" shared a plane with "Air Tungaru". Nauru flight in, Tunagru out; one flight a week each way.

The plane had no markings outside, but inside was a cardboard placard that they'd change depending on who was the carrier.

There'd be only a few people on the plane which was good because the rest of the seats were full of luggage, supplies, food, etc etc. Flight attendant in flip flops!

On landing time the pilot came out and made us sit toward the back because the plane was imbalanced. He warned us that he'd be hitting the ground hard because he didn't have enough runway to bounce.

Fun!

 

[maloney50]

Don't know. IMO, these days, passengers and flight attendants would stop any hostile action , using extraordinary means if needed , and the reinforced doors were never needed.



I do know on US carriers, with a 2 member cockpit crew , if one leaves to use the lavatory , a flight attendant or dead heading off duty pilot enters until the on duty pilot returns. Always a second person present. Apparently non us carriers don't necessarily do this.

My wife is a former flight attendant and she said the same thing. Unfortunately, the policy in europe of allowing one person in the cockpit at a time was a disaster waiting to happen. It is crazy to think that the pilot could lock the door with a switch and know one else could get in the cockpit. I guess they didn't learn anything from 911.


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[Pilot2013]

I plan on flying to West End, Bahama, and hop around some islands there in a couple of months, but the only one delaying me will be me, or Mother nature!

 

[audreyh1]

My wife is a former flight attendant and she said the same thing. Unfortunately, the policy in europe of allowing one person in the cockpit at a time was a disaster waiting to happen. It is crazy to think that the pilot could lock the door with a switch and know one else could get in the cockpit. I guess they didn't learn anything from 911.


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Actually, I believe 911 is what started the locked cockpit practice to protect the pilots from terrorist passengers.

 

[MRG]

That's how I understand it as well. I didn't know not all countries adopted 2 in the cockpit. Seems like a good idea, perhaps not 100% foolproof, but much better than 1.

 

[Mulligan]

My wife is a former flight attendant and she said the same thing. Unfortunately, the policy in europe of allowing one person in the cockpit at a time was a disaster waiting to happen. It is crazy to think that the pilot could lock the door with a switch and know one else could get in the cockpit. I guess they didn't learn anything from 911.


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Though never knowing exactly it was a law, I have frequently observed a flight attendant entering cockpit when pilot left to use the bathroom. I just assumed they were in there incase the one left in cockpit had a heart attack or passed out. The thought of a suicide attempt prevention never entered my mind.


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[mystang52]

DW and I have different attitudes about flying. We both dislike it, but I view it as the necessary evil it is. DW has a harder time dealing with the many annoyances. Perhaps our best vacation in our life was when we went to Italy, followed by a Greek Isle cruise.
Until this thread, I had forgotten the absolutely miserable flight home from that trip - not one but two screaming and misbehaving children. But like I said, when I think of that vacation I have only great memories ---- or at least I did, until this thread

 

[Chuckanut]

Though never knowing exactly it was a law, I have frequently observed a flight attendant entering cockpit when pilot left to use the bathroom. I just assumed they were in there incase the one left in cockpit had a heart attack or passed out. The thought of a suicide attempt prevention never entered my mind.

+1

It seems like a rational thing to do. Though as I understand it, the pilot or first officer has a code he/she can type into a door pad and enter. On the German flight it seems that the co-pilot overrode the pilot's attempt to do this.

On some flights I have seen one flight attendant enter the cockpit, while a second one stands guard in front of the door, looking straight down the aisle in case a bad guy tries to position himself to rush the cockpit.