Sincere apology to Tiger

Jerry1 said:
All that ponyboy wrote may be true. I’m thankful to have learned not to make sports stars or celebrities a role model for me or my kids or grand kids. I’m also well able to separate their personal failings from my needs as a fan. He played great golf. That’s all I ever cared about. I’ve watched golf history in my lifetime and it’s been great. My “good for him” is tied to his golf expertise. I was similarly excited when Jack won his last Masters and was pained when Tom Watson missed that putt to win The Open in the way later part of his career. Underdogs, great golf, drama, it was all good.
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Well said. A very few sport stars make a good role model once we know what they really are. Consider that all these dudes (Tiger, Jordan, etc) are idolized, worshiped, fed ego, etc.,, starting at very young age. Girls coming after them left and right, sycophants chasing after their money in every step these guys take, paparazzis descending on them to get any/every dirt out of them ... Most become ego filled, spoiled, rich bratty type. Only good marketing makes these guys look half normal.
 
Bir48die said:
Let it all out. Hope you feel better
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Its good to shed light on different points of views...but for the casual fan like most...it will fall on deaf ears. But, that was the magic of woods. The game boomed 15 years ago because of him. People who didnt play golf or knew nothing about golf would pay to go see him, buy his nike clothes, and start to show interest in the game. No other golfer moves the needle like Tiger. I dont care much for the guy but even I know that.
 
I think what makes Tiger so special is that he was able to come back from all of his personal and physical challenges and persevere to win after so many years, and such an abrupt fall from grace. Especially at the level of the game, it seems miraculous.

Tiger is far from perfect, which makes him just like all of us. Unlike all of us, he is a superhuman golfer who may just beat Jack Nicklaus' record of winning 18 Majors. I also think he is a different person than he was 20 years ago, as evidenced by all of the other golfers who celebrated with him at the 18th green. That wouldn't have happened in the past either. Over the years he has paid a huge price for his lapses in judgement and has [hopefully] learned from them.

I don't disagree about the phoniness of his image, but it applies both ways. He's neither as bad nor as good as everyone is sold to think. The outrage is just as manufactured as the adulation. If he's not winning, then it's a lot easier to write headlines about his spectacularly anti-heroic fall. If he is winning, then he's growing ratings and moving product - everyone makes money; why screw it up? IIWII
 
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Starsky said:
I think what makes Tiger so special is that he was able to come back from all of his personal and physical challenges and persevere to win after so many years, and such an abrupt fall from grace. Especially at the level of the game, it seems miraculous.

Tiger is far from perfect, which makes him just like all of us. Unlike all of us, he is a superhuman golfer who may just beat Jack Nicklaus' record of winning 18 Majors. I also think he is a different person than he was 20 years ago, as evidenced by all of the other golfers who celebrated with him at the 18th green. That wouldn't have happened in the past either. Over the years he has paid a huge price for his lapses in judgement and has [hopefully] learned from them.

I don't disagree about the phoniness of his image, but it applies both ways. He's neither as bad or as good as everyone is sold to think. The outrage is just as manufactured as the adulation. If he's not winning, then it's a lot easier to write headlines about his spectacularly anti-heroic fall. If he is winning, then he's growing ratings and moving product - everyone makes money; why screw it up? IIWII
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Hey, it sounded like they had fun. At the clubhouse Tiger started talking about the unraveling around the 12th hole and how exciting it got. He likes competition, on and off the course. That's probably why he's now America's 6th richest celebrity.
 
ponyboy said:
The moral of the story is, people love a winner. Doesnt matter how they are in life, how they treat people, if the person wins all is forgiven. I just dont understand this mentality.
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Yep, I totally agree. And the sad part is that lots of young kids idolize a guy like him, because they see him win golf tournaments on TV and want to be just like him when they grow up. Anyone that idolizes Tiger should go back and read the stories about his behavior that came out in 2009 and 2010. They are beyond ugly, and reveal a whole lot about his character as a person. Remember, he was not some 18-year old kid back in 2009........he was 33 years old, with a wife and two young kids. Sure, the guy can play golf, but as a person, he is about the last person anyone should look to as a role model, even if he has matured since then.
 
Setting all the other things aside, I watched Tiger's comeback victory from the perspective of a golfer who was pretty much considered washed up to back on top.

Looking at things this way, the story is about a once dominating athlete, his fall from grace, then a comeback story. Media, advertisers, many folks eat that story line up.

The outcome itself wasn't so much he came roaring back but the didn't get rattled like so many of the other golfers (shots in sand traps, in the water, knocking down a pine cone, missed close up putts, oh my!)
 
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RAE said:
Yep, I totally agree. And the sad part is that lots of young kids idolize a guy like him, because they see him win golf tournaments on TV and want to be just like him when they grow up. Anyone that idolizes Tiger should go back and read the stories about his behavior that came out in 2009 and 2010. They are beyond ugly, and reveal a whole lot about his character as a person. Remember, he was not some 18-year old kid back in 2009........he was 33 years old, with a wife and two young kids. Sure, the guy can play golf, but as a person, he is about the last person anyone should look to as a role model, even if he has matured since then.
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Athletes are not life role models, never have been, and never should be. There is the rare exception to that, but I can't frankly think of one right now.

If we were to list every athlete that really screwed up his/her personal life, the list would VERY long: Think, Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle, Daryll Stawberry, Mike Tyson, et. al.

Give Tiger some credit for getting his Sh$t together (finally), getting his body together, and doing what he was literally taught to do from birth, Play Golf.
 
ponyboy said:
Tigers a billionaire yet he stiffs waiters/waitresses all the time on tips. This isnt a rare occurrence either.
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I heard that he tips "normally", but I guess some people expect rich people to tip huge amounts every time. But it's always easier to spend other people's money.

But, I cant put all the blame on tiger. His dad was also a womanizer. Heck, Tigers old man didnt even live with his mom. So its no surprise Tiger did what he did...doesnt make it right.
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No, it's not right. But if you're using that standard a lot of your heroes might not be your heroes. Not every indiscretion is reported in the media and some of your heroes may not be as pure as you think.

The moral of the story is, people love a winner. Doesnt matter how they are in life, how they treat people, if the person wins all is forgiven. I just dont understand this mentality.
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Some people like those who are the best at their chosen profession, even if they have faults. Tiger made mistakes in his personal life that it seems he regrets, but as a sportsman he is a class act. He never blames anyone but himself for a bad round and he always gives credit to his opponents.
 
Jack Nicklaus wrote in his book years ago that the field is so deep these days that no one will ever dominate. Then Tiger came along and dominated.

I remember hearing a former golfer/now announcer say that back in the day there were 30 guys who were good and a few others had a good week, so you had to beat about 40 guys to win in any given week. But in Tiger's era there were 60 - 80 guys who could win any given week and you had to beat all of them plus all the other guys who had a good week.

Tour players have said that they watch another player make a shot and they know that they can make that shot too. But, Tiger sometimes made shots that they know they can't make.
 
CardsFan said:
Athletes are not life role models, never have been, and never should be. There is the rare exception to that, but I can't frankly think of one right now.

If we were to list every athlete that really screwed up his/her personal life, the list would VERY long: Think, Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle, Daryll Stawberry, Mike Tyson, et. al.

Give Tiger some credit for getting his Sh$t together (finally), getting his body together, and doing what he was literally taught to do from birth, Play Golf.
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Arthur Ashe
 
Nicklaus won his last major at 46, three years older than Woods. And he was beating some pretty good golfers back then, like Tom Kite, Greg Norman, Arnold Palmer. We talk about courses being longer today, sure, with today's technology. If you gave Nicklaus today's equipment, I have not doubt he could score with the best.

I think we get a bit ahead of ourselves with the coronation of Tiger Woods. I do not require athletes to be choir boys but he is very hard to root for, in my opinion.
 
Music Lover said:
I think Tiger is the greatest golfer who ever lived, but Jack had a better career...so far.
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Eh, by every measure except Majors, Tiger’s had a better career. Higher win%, more titles overall. People argue about competition too, but that’s tough to figure. And Tiger had an 11 yr gap due to “stuff”. He may still break Jack’s record. I bet he does. Then there will be no doubt (there is none with me already -Tiger’s the best, and even Jack has said so (lacking clear context)).
 
Just appreciate the feat. You don't have to love the guy. Understand his upbringing. Know that not all people are socially adept. Have an opinion. Judge if you want but hold yourselves to the same standard. Four knee and four back surgeries. Commitment on an unprecedented level.

Sure, he's been an idiot. I have too. I know many that have cheated. I have a son that went through rehab. Fine to not like the guy. Just let somebody in a higher power judge.
 
ponyboy said:
This is the kind of stuff that drives me nuts when it comes to Tiger...and the way the commentators and most people view him. Tiger is a terrible person. I wonder if Tiger will ever share the infidelity stories and what he put his kids mother through? What kind of father would do that to his children? But, people will say everyone makes mistakes. Well, Tiger made the mistake with a dozen chicks...that we know of.
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Tiger did some stupid things but by all accounts Tiger is a terrific father to his kids, even his ex-wife is very clear on that. Arnold Palmer was a well known womanizer (while married and with kids) during his peak playing days. Back then the press turned a blind eye to things like that and it didn't make the head lines but still most knew about. Didn't seem to hurt his legacy much.
 
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Infidelity is possibly the cruelest thing one human being can do to another. It’s not like divorce is difficult these days, or his marriage was arranged for political reasons. I see no reason to praise anybody who acts in that way.
 
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No one is going to change anyone else’s mind here, why bother? You’re a Tiger fan, you’re decidedly not, or you’re indifferent (me). Tiger has had higher highs and lower lows than any of us could ever begin to imagine.
 
Midpack said:
No one is going to change anyone else’s mind here, why bother? You’re a Tiger fan, you’re decidedly not, or you’re indifferent (me). Tiger has had higher highs and lower lows than any of us could ever begin to imagine.
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Yep - he did come back from rock bottom to win arguably the most prestigious tournament in golf, bigly. Huge accomplishment.

Dude is the greatest golfer of my generation, easily.
 
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