is it the battery or the starter?

[retire-early]

My 2004 Honda Accord won't start.

When I turn the key in the ignition, the instrument panel lights up but nothing else happens. I don't hear the sound of the car attempting to start.

Yesterday the guy for roadside assistance came and tried to jump start the battery with one of those big jump start machines. Nothing. He tells me one of the cells in the battery could be bad.

So I take the battery to Walmart because that is where I bought it in Sept 2019. The Walmart guy charged it up for 15 minutes and gave me a slip of paper showing that he was able to charge the battery up.

Is it possible the battery is still bad?

Should I take the battery one more time and ask for a new one?
Or do I bite the bullet and have the car towed and have the problem diagnosed?

 

[Graybeard]

Instrument lights don't draw much power so the battery could be shot but have just enough power to light them. How old is the battery? They have a rated number of months designation on the top, if you are close to that number of months then it is probably shot. Do you have a multimeter to check the voltage? IIRC under 13.7 volts is a weak battery. More batteries die from the heat of Summer than the cold of Winter. That sounds counterintuitive but is true.

 

[NW-Bound]

If the instrument lights, or the interior dome light does not get dimmed when you turn the key to start, and you do not hear anything, then the starter motor is definitely not running.

Why does it not run? It could be a wiring problem. Or it could be the starter solenoid, or the starter itself.

Turn the interior dome light on, and watch it while you turn the key to "Start". The brightness of the light can tell you a lot.

If the light dims, then it shows that battery is too weak to run the starter. Even with a good battery, the light will dim while the starter is cranking. If the battery is weak, the light goes out completely.

If the light shows no effect, then the starting motor does not get any juice from the battery.

 

[easysurfer]

I'm not a fan of Walmart as the battery place.

There are better places to go like an Autozone or Batteries Plus that can probably give a more certain result than Walmart.

Autozone could probably use a tester and tell you if the problem is the battery or alternator. Not sure about Batteries Plus.

 

[Jerry1]

Yes, I would take the battery back and get a new one. Not sure of the warranty, but if it’s prorated, you may want to just go somewhere else and get a new battery. Somewhere that knows what they’re doing.

 

[retire-early]

Instrument lights don't draw much power so the battery could be shot but have just enough power to light them. How old is the battery? They have a rated number of months designation on the top, if you are close to that number of months then it is probably shot. Do you have a multimeter to check the voltage? IIRC under 13.7 volts is a weak battery. More batteries die from the heat of Summer than the cold of Winter. That sounds counterintuitive but is true.

I bought the battery in Sept. 2019, so it is less than 2 years old.

I measured it with my multimeter and it measures 12.35V.

The printout from Walmart says 12.40V

Yes, I would take the battery back and get a new one. Not sure of the warranty, but if it’s prorated, you may want to just go somewhere else and get a new battery. Somewhere that knows what they’re doing.

The printout states that the battery is good and that it meets or exceeds industry specifications and that it passes test for extreme temperature peformance.

Not sure they are going to give me a new one.

.

 

[Jerry1]

Everything I’m reading says it should read over 12.6.

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/r/advice/car-maintenance/car-battery-voltage-range

 

[retire-early]

If the instrument lights, or the interior dome light does not get dimmed when you turn the key to start, and you do not hear anything, then the starter motor is definitely not running.

Why does it not run? It could be a wiring problem. Or it could be the starter solenoid, or the starter itself.

Turn the interior dome light on, and watch it while you turn the key to "Start". The brightness of the light can tell you a lot.

If the light dims, then it shows that battery is too weak to run the starter. Even with a good battery, the light will dim while the starter is cranking. If the battery is weak, the light goes out completely.

If the light shows no effect, then the starting motor does not get any juice from the battery.

I turned on the interior dome light.

I turned the key in the ignition. I don't hear clicks or anything. I hear what sounds like a whine. The dome light seems to go off for 1 second.

.

 

[retire-early]

Everything I’m reading says it should read over 12.6.

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/r/advice/car-maintenance/car-battery-voltage-range

Walmart's equipment says the 12.4 V is okay which means I will have to fight them for a new battery.

Interestingly enough, I called a local Goodyear shop when asking for a quote on replacing the starter.
The guy told me that he also had someone who had a Honda Accord towed in to the shop. The battery was also bought from Walmart and also 2 years old. It was a bad battery.

 

[NW-Bound]

The whine and the blink of the light shows that the starting motor is getting power, and is running.

However, its gear does not engage the flywheel to turn the engine over.

You need a new starter, or perhaps the solenoid if it can be replaced separately. The solenoid mounted on the starter is what engages the starter and the flywheel mechanically.

Another possible cause is the gear of the starter motor is all worn out. I think this is rare. I once had a 69 Mustang, whose flywheel ring gear teeth got chewed up by the smaller gear on the starter motor. Had to replace both.

 

[Jerry1]

After the Walmart persons charged the battery for 15 minutes did it start your car? Any chance you have another car where you can swap batteries and see what happens? Sorry, I’m still betting on the battery being the problem.

 

[retire-early]

After the Walmart person charged the battery yesterday afternoon, I brought it home.
Left the battery in the gargage overnight not connected to anything.
This morning I hooked the battery up and tried to start the car.
The car did not start.

.

 

[Aerides]

Yeah if a jump start didn't work it's not the battery. It could be the battery is a secondary symptom, being drained by the issue, but your root cause is the starter, the alternator, or something else in the electrical system.

If you don't want to try a dealer, try Autozone or something?

 

[CoolRich59]

The Walmart guy charged it up for 15 minutes and gave me a slip of paper showing that he was able to charge the battery up.

I find it hard to attribute anything resembling “expertise” to Walmart employees.

 

[easysurfer]

After the Walmart persons charged the battery for 15 minutes did it start your car? Any chance you have another car where you can swap batteries and see what happens? Sorry, I’m still betting on the battery being the problem.

I'm betting with you.

More specifically, I'd say probably a crappy battery from Walmart.

Years ago my car battery died just before I had to drive home about 250 miles away. I want to a Walmart and got the battery replaced.

About 50 miles into the drive home the battery light lit up on the dash.

I did drive home but the next day when to a local Car-X where they said the battery I got from Walmart was no good.

Of course, that was just my situation and has nothing to do with the situation of the OP. Except, I'd rather go to different places than Walmart for car advice and maintenance.

 

[street]

Good advise use a battery from another vehicle you know is good.

I'm saying it isn't the battery, let us know what The verdict is when you know.

 

[SD-455]

batteries very often fail in extreme temperatures, hot or cold, so my bet is on the battery having a bad cell since it's July. 2 years for a lot of Wal-Mart batteries is not unusual anymore. Either that or you may have an accessory of some kind that is drawing the battery down. Look for glove box lights, interior lights, trunk lights, etc. Starters can die suddenly on rare occasion but usually give warning signs before they fail.

 

[Car-Guy]

I turned on the interior dome light.

I turned the key in the ignition. I don't hear clicks or anything. I hear what sounds like a whine. The dome light seems to go off for 1 second.

.

Could still be a battery problem, but based on what I've read in the above post(s) and if it's a "higher speed whine sound" that stops when you move the key from start to run, then it sounds like a starter problem. e.g. Starter gear drive not engaging with the flywheel. Typical starter and solenoid pictured below, although some cars don't have the solenoid attached to the starter, as pictured below... In anycase it's an easy fix for anyone that has a little mechanical ability, (typically a 30 to 45 min job) if that turns out to be your problem... Good luck, and of course YMMV

 

[niven]

The ignition switch itself could also be the problem.

 

[FlaGator]

After the Walmart person charged the battery yesterday afternoon, I brought it home.
Left the battery in the gargage overnight not connected to anything.
This morning I hooked the battery up and tried to start the car.
The car did not start.

.

Replace the battery.

A good fully charged auto battery should be 12.8-13V+ (6 cells x 2.1-2.2V/cell). I wonder what the voltage was before it went on the charger. At 12.4V, there is likely a cell with a short or other internal deficiency. As for the charge, resting overnight, then not working - auto batteries are subject to "surface charge". They can be loaded up in the short term, but won't hold it for long.

I just went through this with a 2019 Honda. Flat battery, wouldn't start. Had just driven 50 miles at 70 mph. Boosted from the AAA battery pack, started and did so for a few days. Then started having errors with 2 of the driving aid systems. Decided not to take any more chances and replaced the battery. Driving aid errors disappeared, and no other problems in the last 3 weeks.

From the recent experience and others a few years ago, I decided to immediately replace any battery that need a jump as long as it wasn't accidently depleted (headlights left on). They go bad. I seldom have one last more than 4 years, and 2-3 is more common for me.

 

[latexman]

You may have two problems.

I’ve had good luck with AAA brand car batteries.

It sounds like the bendix in the starter is broken. Get a new or reman starter.

 

[retire-early]

Should I bother going back to Walmart and insisting on a new battery?
Or do I go to another store and buy a new one?

.

 

[latexman]

Do you have AAA?

 

[retire-early]

Do you have AAA?

No.
I will have to pay out-of-pocket and have the car towed and hope that my insurance reimburses me $75 that is included with my auto insurance policy.

.

 

[homestead]

IF the alternator went bad the battery would go dead. Since they only charged the battery 15 minutes it needs to be fully charged.
Putting a good battery in there is a good test to do.