Girlfriend of 8 yrs wants to get married...and I don't

[Westernskies]

I missed that thread...did he get electrocuted?

Hopefully not electrocuted! but, ...sterilized...hmm..

 

[Notmuchlonger]

I missed that thread...did he get electrocuted? Like my grandpa used to say...why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free

Whats that other saying? Why buy the whole pig to get a lil sausage?

 

[yakers]

I'd often felt that a man without a woman was like a neck without a pain. - Kinky Friedman

God Bless Us All

But AFAIK Kinky is gay, so maybe less useful advice in this case; and Kinky is a great entertainer so his statementcan be read hat way.

Like Urchina & LG4NB said, being married is more than living together & loving each other. My favorite marriage quote:

"I didn't marry you because you were perfect. I didn't even marry you because I loved you. I married you because you gave me a promise. That promise made up for your faults. And the promise I gave you made up for mine. Two imperfect people got married and it was the promise that made the marriage. And when our children were growing up, it wasn't a house that protected them; and it wasn't our love that protected them---it was that promise." 
Thornton Wilder, THE SKIN OF OUR TEETH

 

[thefed]

I don't doubt the truth of any of this. Fed has been on the boards a long time. He gets something from being here, but it isn't advice. If you doubt this go back and read some old dramas, the advice given, and Fed's course of action. Simple things like house wiring are in a different category

Actually, I respect him for this.

Ha

ha....care to elaborate? I get a lot from these responses...jumping-off points for what really needs to happen. i dont go posting these things on my camaro forums because those are different types of people. i respect those on this board for belonging to THIS kind of board....enough so that i want to hear what they think

but as far as my 'old dramas'....please elaborate...they may be dramas to you,but real life for me. and surely the responses on this board influenced my thought processes enough to matter

EVERYONE ELSE: I'll try to take some time tonite and respond to each of you...i really DO appreciate the time you've all taken...whether or not you responded tongue-in-cheek...after all, im just an imaginary person in an imaginary place....nobody you could talk to like that face to face....but hey....thats why we like the 'net....eh?

 

[bright eyed]

Fed, i think the issue isn't getting married or not - but how you two can start making decisions together about your lives and that of your children from now on that consider everyone's needs.

For whatever number of reasons - you made decisions without being totally clear about where you were at in your head and what that means in the future (for your kids). You have to stop that now and get a framework for how to move forward less-hap-hazardly and books/professionals may help - they may not. It sort of depends on what your and your gf's intentions are - she does seem quite unwilling to discuss or explore her feelings, she's just feeling them right now.

But if you can conjure up as much compassion as you have in your heart for her and your kids, you will sit with her and let her know you "hear" her concern and you want to find out how you two can learn to talk about these things and make decisions together - a valuable relationship skill you both will need whether you stay together or not.

good luck to you. i think people were a bit judgement to you because you've stumbled a bit, but i empathize with you a lot and have a lot in common. Life doesn't come with a manual and some of us had less resources steering the course than others and are all just doing the best that we can.

 

[Zipper]

Either sh*t or get off the pot and let her find someone who will commit.

 

[bbbamI]

Can you imagine your life without her? If so, how does it feel?

 

[Fireup2020]

Gut says no - don't do it!

Ask anyone who has ever gone though a divorce - despite thinking deep down they should not...

 

[alvarezg]

From someone who's lost twice even though initially things looked pretty good: don't. Any uncertainty or disagreement will not go away, it will only turn into regret, resentment and dispute. All the best to both.

 

[thefed]

YOU: Yea, she is a good lay and she can pop a couple of kids for me.... but the heck with her being my partner.... she doesn't deserve it.... yep, that is what I see...

not by a longshot. we decided to have a 2 kids because we love each other,and want to show them the world. she's got mother-material written all over her,so we did it...and dont regret it one bit. neither of us felt that being unwed at the time would/should affect our children's quality of life. sure, there is a stigma....but if you dont like it......

Doesn't have to be a church wedding, just go to the justice of the peace and do it. If she wants to be married, you could offer her that and see what she says...sounds like she is no longer willing to have a fence sitter as a houseguest with privileges. Are you a selfish @$$ ? Probably, since you are now obviously not willing to follow thru on your commitments.

although she is not excited about a courtroom wedding,she's okay with it. she did it once before, and it didnt work out. yes she is a DIVORCEE (enter jerry springer comment here). I met her while she was being beaten on a daily basis by someone I knew, and I made sure that situation was put to an end. so the whole "lets just run downtown for a quick wedding' doesnt sit well with her. As far as me being selfish...yes, i am....im working on it. Following through though? I didnt know we set a timeline....im just not ready NOW

When your kids someday ask you why you did not marry their mother, what will you say?

If it gets to that point, i will tell them the truth.

So, "Judy." [I need to humanize you to "get" this.] Judy, congrats on accepting the proposal from two years ago. Are you happy? Oh, yeah, you are three months post-partem with an active three-year-old running around and now you look like an internet widow, living with the children's father who works how many jobs, how many hours?. Says he can't forgive you for something you've already "worked out." Wants to spend his "copious" free time finding himself, while two children need attention, you gotta be kidding. And you, you want a big party wedding; I hear big weddings take a lot of time to plan, why do that when two children need attention; at this point why not elope? What's that he calls you, gf instead of fiancee? What's that all about, he proposed. Does that look like love to you?

Do you have family you can stay with for a few months or years while you sort this out? "

1) i work these hours so she can be at home with our kids. 2)is a fiance not also a girlfriend? it's societal 'terms' like fiance that dont even mean a thing to me. if THAT use of interchangeable wording indicates a lack of love to you, I can only imagine how you feel when real issues come up 3)she currently IS with her family....me and my 2 sons. We live a normal day-to-day life, but are having an issue with marriage....her life is not in danger, so you can rest easily tonight...k?

 

[thefed]

IMO you should either decide to "forgive" her wholeheartedly what ever you feel she did to you or leave this relationship, take responsibility of the kids and allow yourself and her to move on with your lifes.

In the situation of today you keep yourself in a nice and comfortable setting: You believe that what she did or might have done is worse than what you did, so you have the right to treat her the way you do: not keeping promises, escaping from responsibility.
And isn't it nice for your ego to see that she wants you so much as a partner?

You should better acknowledge your share of what hapened so far. You contributed to her dealing with another guy, you contributed to your criminal offence, you contributed to the kids, you contributed to her expectation of getting married.

Get real and take a decision other than to keep the situation open as long as she is willing to compromise.
Partnership counselling might help both of you to find one.

I know i need to forgive,but never has anyone else made me feel the way i did. thats something im working on. sure,i can say it...but i need to feel it!

As far as my contributions: her f$c4ing another guy? no...i did not contribute. i contributed to the demise of our relationship, but she went about it in a very dirty way. period. my criminal offense is all on me. i accept that. its a good thing it happened when it did, or i'd probably be dead right now. the fact of the matter is though that had we not broken up, and had she not told my adversaries things about my home and its belongings, it wouldnt have gone down like it did. but at the time we were separated, so what did i expect? lastly,i dont understand about 'closing' the situation. so if i marry her,im doing the right thing...but if i dont, i must end the relationship? because for the last 5 years we've had a wonderful time with one another....2 of which we've been engaged

You both should ask yourselves what is best for your two children and let that be your guide. You indicated they were planned. When planning to have children, did you two consider the kind of life you wanted to provide for them? If so, I doubt these plans included living with two parents consumed with bitterness over past events and unable to make a true committment to each other.

Either work it out with counseling if you believe you have a chance at a long term committed relationship. Otherwise, go your separate ways and give the children the support they need. It would be better for the kids to be with a single parent than in a household filled with distrust and turmoil.

yes,we considered and discussed the life we want to provide for them. we decided a marraige certificate was not essential to a good upbringing. we decided that her being home with them was more important than the extra $$ she could make by working. we decided that we liked the home we are in, and will stay in it until they graduate...let them reap the benefits of a good school district, and a stable home. our lives are by no means "consumed with bitterness". in no way shape or form would our kids be better off with a single parent, as opposed to two who love them tremendously. 'quitting' is not an option, nor an example we want to set. we will work through this

 

[thefed]

The children are going to hear and see your fights, your unhappiness , your disrespect toward each other as they grow up if you continue to live as you have been.

we dont fight at all. we have discussions when they are in bed, and thats about it. disagreements, but who doesnt?

dude, you bought the farm 3 years ago. The wedding is merely a formality. You'll have a life long commitment with her with or without the wedding - via the kids.

So don't let the lack of a wedding be the thing that causes the split. This is not the time to wonder if someone better will "come along".

indeed you are correct, we are together for life...I WANT to be together for life, but i dont necessarily respect the sanctitiy of marraige as projected by societal norms...i think its pointless....take meformyword...I M NOT GOING ANYWHERE. Ive proven that to this point, 8 yrs strong.

And I dont WANT or WONDER or WISH something better will come along, I want HER! I cant put it anymore bluntly than that.

"they couldn't have a better mother" If this is true then sounds to me like most of the problems at this point are yours - not hers. 8 years is a long time to have your lives intertwined & have children together.

As to weddings & not being religious - I'm a total atheist & I had a very small church wedding - mostly to please my mom. What's the big deal to you (a guy) whether it's a preacher, a JP, a Buddhist monk, a witch doctor, or a Wiccan Priestess. We're guys. Weddings are for the women - it's something you do for her - the guy's part is just to show up with a buttoneire and a smile; say "I do"; kiss the bride; and help make it a warm, romantic, & memorable event for her.

If she is being "sane" now & you are the one with the problems, you need to work out or just get-over your problems & carry on. Perhaps engage yourself in a little self-directed Rational Emotive Therapy. (a psycho-babble way of saying taking a good logical rational look at yourself, consciously making an effort to modify your behavior, and growing up! Sorry if that sounds a little harsh, but you asked.)

If you're gonna stick around, you need to provide her (& the kids) with that commitment - let her know that you are gonna take care of her, the kids, & things through thick or thin - for better or worse. Set a good example for your children of what a good, responsible, mature, emotionally healthy man should be. You should be steady as a rock for them. Be the leader in reducing all of this destructive drama in your relationship and your lives. I predict she'll love you for it. Consider it the best gift you can ever possibly give to her & your kids.



Like I said, I'm an old fashioned guy, but I believe it's a man's place in the relationship to take the lead (without trying to dominate her) in providing that security (financial & emotional) & letting her know you're gonna be there for her & the kids no matter what - even if you're unhappy with a few things once in a while or have a little "angst" here & there. That's the man's burden, women have their own burdens just as heavy.

1) a agree that the problems right now are me, see other thread about inner peace . im working on it. i KNOW its natural for her to want it...i KNOW this, i dont blame her at all.

2)wedding are for women...just show up and say i do? yes,the cermony is,but check again with your local laws and you will see it is much more than that! im all about her feeling warm and fuzzy, but theres a lot more that comes with the deal.

3)re: providing the commitment so she knows i'll be there. THATS THE STICKING POINT. doesnt showing her by EXAMPLE mean much more than by saying 'i do' thats what i dont get...people would prefer a promise more than ACTION...8 years ive been there thru thick and thin

Thanks for the post though, it was very well thought out and i appreciate the input. dont take my 'rebuttals' personally, just explainin myself!

[FONT=&quot]


[/FONT]

 

[thefed]

1) counseling
2) follow-through on what you learn in counseling, and if it is "don't get married", then, well, don't get married. But give this project the time and attention it deserves.

Good luck to you Fed, I think you are growing into a fine man, because you are asking questions and considering consequences of your actions, possibly for the first time in your life. But a crucial part of that is owning up to your past failures and being responsible for mistakes--you are the reason you are a felon. And that is okay, but own up to it. Like others have said, stop blaming her for it.

thank you for the kind word, they mean a lot...and you hit the nail on the head...it will be counseling then follow through for sure. re:being a felon...see above comments. thanks for the post

Even the title says so much: 'girlfriend', why not 'Mother of my Children'?

-ERD50

getting stuck on such petty verbiage seems...well...so petty to me. it means the same thing. when does the entire story need to be posted in the title? if i had changed that, would it REALLY change the situation im in? nope.

From your earlier thread about not being able to find peace, fed, I think you're at a weird time in your emotional life (maybe a quarter/third life crisis). That could be affecting all your decisions right now. Agree with Martha and others about counseling--alone for now.

agreed 100%

TheFed, you are a very brave guy to discuss this at a site where so many people are known to keep shotguns handy.

Whatever you decide, keep on posting here, you have some "family" here as well and we love you all the more for sharing.

P.S. there is some very good advise on this thread but it isn't counseling.

THANK YOU

So maybe this conflict isn't really over whether or not to get married -- maybe this conflict is over whether or not you're equal partners in your relationship. Your comment about needing "control" also leads me to think this.

i do have control issues in many aspects of life.not control issues like 'youre not leaving the house woman!" its more of an underhanded,passive control thing....sounds devious put that way, but it is what it is. its like this for me in business as well. again, its an issue i am aware of and want to work on

"I didn't marry you because you were perfect. I didn't even marry you because I loved you. I married you because you gave me a promise. That promise made up for your faults. And the promise I gave you made up for mine. Two imperfect people got married and it was the promise that made the marriage. And when our children were growing up, it wasn't a house that protected them; and it wasn't our love that protected them---it was that promise." [FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]Thornton Wilder, THE SKIN OF OUR TEETH

wow. all i can say is WOW. that means so much right now. thank you

Can you imagine your life without her? If so, how does it feel?

I EXPERIENCED life without her for 6 months and wouldnt wish that on my worst enemy. i NEED her. that's not the issue at hand. having to say "I DO" to prove it is what irks me...my actions SHOULD speak louder than my words...

 

[thefed]

wow that took a while again, thanks for those with sincere input. if i didnt address yourpost directly,i probably addressed the subjects in another part of the posts.


and for the record, since someone mentioned it, i didnt ask for advice...i was just venting

 

[Texarkandy]

.....

My favorite marriage quote:

"I didn't marry you because you were perfect. I didn't even marry you because I loved you. I married you because you gave me a promise. That promise made up for your faults. And the promise I gave you made up for mine. Two imperfect people got married and it was the promise that made the marriage. And when our children were growing up, it wasn't a house that protected them; and it wasn't our love that protected them---it was that promise." 
Thornton Wilder, THE SKIN OF OUR TEETH

Best comment of the thread IMHO - I've never heard quote & glad I did now.

 

[RonBoyd]

Best comment of the thread IMHO - I've never heard quote & glad I did now.

Yeah, it is stuff like this that has captured me, also. This group is a real Gem.

 

[Nords]

Don't marry her.

im a very anti-establishment,anti-NORM person. its the NORM to get a 9-5job and work for a living. i didnt do that. its the NORM for people to get married in our situation. instead i see it as 1) a religious tradition that serves no purpose but to make one/both parties feel secure...remember that im not religious 2) a financial agreement
I didnt move one 4 years ago because she IS the woman I want to be with forever...but why do i have to be married to make that happen? I was ill every day without her...my mind body and soul ached. she IS the only one i want. but marriage doesn't seem necessary tome.

Seems like everyone's a non-conformist these days.*

Interesting thoughts here. I'm starting out with REWahoo & Martha but perhaps you guys need more than just a wedding ceremony to resolve the issues.

There are a lot of different relationships among people, so try to imagine yourselves 60 years from now. Will you be lovingly socializing with your grandkids (and perhaps changing each other's bedpans), or will you two be even more like the Bickersons? Because right now your description of your lives together reminds me of the relationship between my parents-in-law (possibly without the cash & felonies), and no one wants to be around that.

I agree that a religious wedding isn't necessary. Spouse and I had a non-denominational wedding because we're not interested in corporate religion. We watched another couple attempt to qualify for a synagogue ceremony (I was best man) but the combination of her conversion and his bachelor party (not my fault!) almost cancelled the whole thing. We know several shipmates who've stayed together for decades without marriage (and their kids really are little bastards). We also know several couples who divorced after seeing our relationship...

You guys might be the next generation of Gene Simmons & Shannon Tweed, but the difference is that neither one of them wants to be married. Meanwhile one of you is thinking about getting married and that difference of opinion seems to be destroying what might have been a pretty good relationship.

I believe that when you love someone then their happiness is important to you. If she wants to be married and is unhappy, then if you really love her you'll do something about it. It's not "caving in" or "standing your ground", it's figuring out together what an acceptable compromise would be. The two of you need to figure out a way to reaffirm your commitments to each other without "if you really love me" ultimatums. It seems that right now the only thing she sees as a commitment involves a marriage certificate-- but is there some other way to achieve that symbol of commitment? Or do you want to raise your kids on your own?

Another issue is that you apparently agreed to an engagement, which many many people interpret as an intent to follow through with a marriage. She's calling your bluff and you don't have an acceptable response. That can send a signal that perhaps you don't want to send.

Many people don't possess the negotiation & discussions skills to work through these issues without a complete breakdown of communications. Counseling doesn't have to persuade one of you to accede to the other's position-- but counseling can help facilitate the discussion by setting a non-confrontational environment and giving you the tools to work through the issues. Whether it's on Springer, with a different group of people facing a similar debate, or just the two of you it can help you sort through all the landmines littering your path.

As Dr. Phil says, what you have right now ain't exactly workin' for ya... and you don't seem to have an alternative that makes you any happier.

*Per Justin's disclaimer, this is sarcasm. It might even be subtle humor.

 

[Buckeye]

From a financial point of view, I would be a little worried if I were her. She's not working so she is not building up her SS benefit. Since she is not married to you, she will never share in your benefit. If you die, she does not get survivor benefits (kids do). If you walk away in 20 years, she gets none of your SS. She should protect herself either by working and building her own benefit or getting married to get part of yours. She's foolish to stay home and depend on you for future security.

 

[SecondCor521]

If you want relationship advice, I'm not the guy...

But I'd add 1% to REWahoo's number.

Ditto. One of my rules for getting married (still not happening, just talking theoretically) is that three parts of my anatomy have to all vote "Yes" - my brain, my heart, and the third you can figure out. In my first marriage I was young, stupid, and my brain was outvoted. Your brain should have veto power. It doesn't sound to me like your brain is voting "Yes" given all that you wrote.

I would add that even though there are kids involved, I think that getting married is not necessarily the correct course of action. Yes, you need to be involved in those two kiddos' lives, but marriage is independent of that involvement. You two can continue to live together, or whatever. If I were you, I would find out what my likely custody schedule would be if your girlfriend tried to leave with the kids.

2Cor521

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Okay, after reading the replies and replies to replies, I'm gonna flip in the other direction.

You're just chickenshit to marry her and you're trying to throw a bunch of nonconformist stuff up in the air to shift the blame.

If you said you'd marry her, you love her, you cant imagine your life without her and the only issue is that you just dont feel like being like everyone else and putting it down on paper, its time to grow up and move past that latter part. If you made a commitment to her and you're committed to your children, do the right thing and finish what you started.

Be a man.

And along the way get some counseling to work out these trust issues.

 

[Texarkandy]

What this thread needs is a poll - can you add one after you start the thread?

 

[summer2007]

I have learned in life that people usually do not change. If someone is crooked or rotten they usually stay that way until they die.

I have seen people that were horrible right up until their death in their 80's.

I have worked for people and had nothing but problems over and over and over with the same people and not one problem with others. People that I know that I like and trust seems to stay a constant also. I get that comment from people that have known me for a long time and I take it as a huge compliment. Thinks like "I know I can count on you".

I know that people can change it seems that when kids are in their teens that they can be rotten and then turn out ok. But for people in their mid twenties or older I think those traits are there for life.

Now I know there are exceptions I have seen some nice people be rotten and some people that were going through a bad time and were horrible and then made it right later.

But I would say at least 9 out of 10 if you find someone who has a habit of doing rotten stuff they will stop that when they stop breathing.

I had a neighbor that sued everyone for no reason she was horrible....she was that way until she died. I got another neighbor that is in her mid 80's that is as objectionable as they come and I doubt she will change if and when she reaches 90!

The way I look at it is no one is perfect even the nicest people I know can have their ways and get annoying at times. Life is not like some perfect movie.

When I would do work for people there were people that I just could not work for because of reasons like they would not pay me or were just abusive. And others that I didn't like that were workable to deal with.

I guess what I'm saying is if you know the person you are dealing with pretty well don't ever expect them to change just ask yourself if you can HANDLE the way they are. Because they probably will never change!

I hope everything works out for you.

Jim

 

[CuppaJoe]

What this thread needs is a poll - can you add one after you start the thread?

I'd rather have a still drink and respect TheFed's clear statement that he started this thread to vent, not to receive advice.

 

[REWahoo]

I'd rather have a still drink and respect TheFed's clear statement that he started this thread to vent, not to receive advice.

Hey, maybe we're all just venting. I know a lot of people who vent by giving advice...

 

[CuppaJoe]

Hey, maybe we're all just venting. I know a lot of people who vent by giving advice...

I'll drink to that. Cheers!