Abating noise from upstairs condo?

[Steeler75]

One word advice... Sell!

My fist home was a condo and yes, I had a neighbor above me. She had a squeaky mattress that woke me up on many a night when gentleman callers were over.

I did mention the noise but no good alternatives. Sold the unit and swore i’d never live again with someone living above me.

 

[Sue J]

One of my favorite shows on HGTV was Income Property, with Scott McGillivray. He builds high end rental units in homes and he always does sound insulation. Here’s a video of his method.

https://youtu.be/GmX8L0Vr3cY

 

[Jerry1]

Getting over the sense of "being cut off from the world" by deactivating one of my safety senses when wearing earplugs is a definite "thing" for me.

omni

I feel the same way. Thankfully, most nights when DW is snoring what I can do is put one earplug in one of my ears and the other ear I lay on my pillow (side sleeper). It is only the worst nights when I put earplugs in both ears.

Just an FYI, I snore too and I’m not making fun of DW. She’s lucky enough to be a very hard sleeper so once she’s asleep, she’s fine. I’m a very light sleeper so this is my strategy for dealing with it when she does snore.

Also, I have an alarm where if someone approaches the house, the Ring makes a pretty loud noise. Plus, I doubt anyone would get in the house without me hearing. I assume they would just kick in the door or break a window. Not a quiet operation. If I was more concerned, I would sleep with a locked, reinforced bedroom door.

 

[Drewskers]

I'm a noise-sensitive/averse person also. And late to this thread! But I have read through the thread and I think I have a couple of thoughts not mentioned.


My first thought is, can you arrange things so the room you sleep in is not directly below the bedroom of the people above you? I'm thinking, put a Murphy bed in the living room, or maybe a sleeping chair, something of that nature.


Second thought is noise-cancelling ear buds or headphones, provided you can find a pair that fit comfortably and don't interfere with your preferred sleeping position. I occasionally wear my Bose noise-cancelling headphones to be able to get to sleep on "active" nights in my neighborhood. I prefer to sleep on my side but to be able to get to sleep at all, I'll suffer propping up on a couple of pillows in a semi-sitting position with the headphones on. They do a great job of cancelling out the thump-thump of the subwoofers of the people that visit my street late at night to enjoy the view of the city and disrupt the peace and quiet. I realize your problem is staying asleep when the noise starts, so likely this isn't useful, but it is the same kind of noise as what's bothering you. (I wonder if any enterprising tech company makes a whole room noise-cancelling system? I'd buy one in a heartbeat!)

 

[eytonxav]

No question that would be quite frustrating to put up with. While spay in foam would seem to make sense there could be some problems if it expanded too much around ductwork or plumbing/electrical stuff in the ceiling, therefore, I suspect a sprayed in vermiculite might be a better choice and should not be too expensive to have that blow in. As a first step though, talking to the upstairs neighbor is what I would do. Most reasonable people would understand your situation and try to be quieter neighbors. Alternatively, maybe sleeping in the living room is an option if that area is quieter during sleeping hours.

 

[ivinsfan]

How could they be quieter neighbors. what are they doing wrong. It seems like just normal everyday living noise. which you should be able to do in your own home..

 

[travelover]

I'm a noise-sensitive/averse person also. And late to this thread! But I have read through the thread and I think I have a couple of thoughts not mentioned.


My first thought is, can you arrange things so the room you sleep in is not directly below the bedroom of the people above you? I'm thinking, put a Murphy bed in the living room, or maybe a sleeping chair, something of that nature.


Second thought is noise-cancelling ear buds or headphones, provided you can find a pair that fit comfortably and don't interfere with your preferred sleeping position. I occasionally wear my Bose noise-cancelling headphones to be able to get to sleep on "active" nights in my neighborhood. I prefer to sleep on my side but to be able to get to sleep at all, I'll suffer propping up on a couple of pillows in a semi-sitting position with the headphones on. They do a great job of cancelling out the thump-thump of the subwoofers of the people that visit my street late at night to enjoy the view of the city and disrupt the peace and quiet. I realize your problem is staying asleep when the noise starts, so likely this isn't useful, but it is the same kind of noise as what's bothering you. (I wonder if any enterprising tech company makes a whole room noise-cancelling system? I'd buy one in a heartbeat!)

Noise canceling technology relies on repetitious noise. It senses the repetition and anticipates by generating an out of phase cancelling noise. Opening drawers and walking around noises don’t fit this bill. Engines running or maybe a repeating beat in music might qualify. At any rate, the solution is blocking.

 

[Amethyst]

Yeah, you can't really expect people to moderate their gait so their footsteps don't seem so loud to you. If someone asked me to do that, I would be puzzled, and probably offended.

If they were playing loud music at all hours, constantly moving furniture around, or dribbling basketballs in the living room, it would be different.

How could they be quieter neighbors. what are they doing wrong. It seems like just normal everyday living noise. which you should be able to do in your own home..

 

[Aerides]

Yeah, you can't really expect people to moderate their gait so their footsteps don't seem so loud to you. If someone asked me to do that, I would be puzzled, and probably offended.

Yes...and if someone said "do you mind trying to be extra quiet when you <insert normal thing everyone does here>" then I'd now be self-conscious doing normal things in my own home.

And it sounds from the OP that almost anything can do it, and they aren't doing anything abnormal now. My next door neighbors are smokers, and they are often outside smoking on their patio so I smell it when I'm outside, but I would never dream of saying "could you cut that out?" - because they have every right to, even though I can't stand it (and can't wait for the day they move.)

I'd experiment more with earplugs, white noise, and sound proofing.

 

[GalaxyBoy]

I worked as an engineer involved with designing buildings and I'll just say that sound is a tricky thing and I was always amazed at the black magic the acoustics people did (I sat next to a group of them at one [-]prison[/-] job). I ain't no expert by any means, and I had to grasp some of it as it applies to fire alarm design, but I do know that getting someone who knows what they're doing would be well worth the investment before spending a lot of money to modify anything.

Oh, and I was glad to see someone else bring up fire codes. Pesky things, I know, but there are good reasons for limiting combustibility of exposed finish materials, especially in sleeping rooms. If a space above a ceiling is used as an air plenum (i.e., return air travels through it without ductwork) then there are even stricter rules. That last case would be unusual in a condo, though. Again, check with the experts.

 

[freedomatlast]

I was in a similar situation not too long ago. All of the noise abatement solutions I looked into were very expensive and I just didn't think they would be as effective as advertised. So I tried several different types of earplugs. Hearos Extreme Ear plugs were by far the best earplugs for me. They are so effective that if I need to use an alarm to wake up, I need to set it to extra loud or I won't hear it. Worth a try for about $4/pack on ebay.

 

[spncity]

Might you be inclined to pay to carpet their bedroom - plush carpet over a top of the line carpet padding?

 

[Retired Expat]

Might you be inclined to pay to carpet their bedroom - plush carpet over a top of the line carpet padding?

One of the best solution if your neighbor will go for it. Fiberglass insulation in the ceiling should be soundBatt and not R anything. That is a thermal rating. The heavy vinyl often called Mass Loaded vinyl works well if you get excellent coverage and have no gaps.

A million steps to try all add cost. Add RC clips or resilient channel to the ceiling structure so vibrations don’t pass through to your sound deadening sheet rock. You can add acoustical foam to the underside of the ceiling structure and wrap all the ductwork with it. Duct work is a great conductor of sound.

Be careful the things you add don’t great a fire hazard or toxic smoke condition. I was a super high end luxury custom home builder and faced this many times. There was never one simple answer and every building is different.

You could move to a top floor apartment of course.

 

[pb4uski]

....My next door neighbors are smokers, and they are often outside smoking on their patio so I smell it when I'm outside, but I would never dream of saying "could you cut that out?" - because they have every right to, even though I can't stand it (and can't wait for the day they move.) ...

How about a fan that blows their smoke smells away from your outside area?

 

[Sunset]

Noise canceling technology relies on repetitious noise. It senses the repetition and anticipates by generating an out of phase cancelling noise. Opening drawers and walking around noises don’t fit this bill. Engines running or maybe a repeating beat in music might qualify. At any rate, the solution is blocking.

I'm not sure this is true.

They have a microphone that hears the sound and generates an opposite wave so the waves cancel out. It's not going to generate a wave coming in the next x microseconds before it happens because if the sound does not come, then the headphones will be making the opposite sound. Defeating the purpose.
https://electronics.howstuffworks.com/gadgets/audio-music/noise-canceling-headphone3.htm

 

[travelover]

I'm not sure this is true.

They have a microphone that hears the sound and generates an opposite wave so the waves cancel out. It's not going to generate a wave coming in the next x microseconds before it happens because if the sound does not come, then the headphones will be making the opposite sound. Defeating the purpose.
https://electronics.howstuffworks.com/gadgets/audio-music/noise-canceling-headphone3.htm

I’m not exactly following your point, but I’m positive that noise canceling headphones only work for repeating noises. It generates the canceling signal by assuming the future noise will be the same as the past noise, such as an engine makes. That’s why they don’t work to block out speech, for example.

 

[ERD50]

Originally Posted by travelover View Post
Noise canceling technology relies on repetitious noise. It senses the repetition and anticipates by generating an out of phase cancelling noise. Opening drawers and walking around noises don’t fit this bill. Engines running or maybe a repeating beat in music might qualify. At any rate, the solution is blocking.

I'm not sure this is true.

They have a microphone that hears the sound and generates an opposite wave so the waves cancel out. It's not going to generate a wave coming in the next x microseconds before it happens because if the sound does not come, then the headphones will be making the opposite sound. Defeating the purpose.
https://electronics.howstuffworks.com/gadgets/audio-music/noise-canceling-headphone3.htm

I’m not exactly following your point, but I’m positive that noise canceling headphones only work for repeating noises. It generates the canceling signal by assuming the future noise will be the same as the past noise, such as an engine makes. That’s why they don’t work to block out speech, for example.

I'm with Sunset.

All it takes to cancel a sound is to produce one 180° out of phase and mix it with the original, something easily done with any audio amplifier - no analysis of whether it is repeating or not is needed. No predicting, just cancellation. Looks like a short time delay may be used (which can be accomplished with a simple analog all-pass filter), to account for the time it takes sound to travel from the external microphone to the eardrum.

Just like this image from the link that Sunset provided. Though they show a steady-state sine wave (typical for any description like this), the same would occur with an impulse.

-ERD50

 

[ERD50]

I’m not exactly following your point, but I’m positive that noise canceling headphones only work for repeating noises. It generates the canceling signal by assuming the future noise will be the same as the past noise, such as an engine makes. That’s why they don’t work to block out speech, for example.

Further to this, I bet you are thinking about noise reduction techniques used on recorded sound.

If a recording has some repetitive noise, that noise can be analyzed, and canceled with an out-of-phase signal, and/or filtering. The easiest to cancel this way is probably a steady 50/60 cycle hum (or one of its harmonics) from line noise. The big difference is, that in a recording, these signals are mixed, and you are trying to separate one from the other.

With the noise cancelling headphones, you are trying to eliminate all noise from the outside source, so you just cancel all of it, you don't need to be selective. If you are listening to music at the same time through the headphones, that signal is passed normally. The outside noise comes from a separate signal chain through microphones, so is handled separately.

And the noise cancelling headphones do cancel speech. They were offered to me on a business class flight , probably 20 years ago. They worked great, and I had to take them off to hear the flight attendant, they blocked her voice as completely as the jet engine noise.
-ERD50

 

[Aerides]

How about a fan that blows their smoke smells away from your outside area?

It would have to be a monster fan. Perhaps I'm always downwind, but I can smell it across the entire back yard. I'm an ex-smoker, so extra sensitive probably. We don't really do outdoor entertaining (S FL, tricky), or I'd look into something like that.

 

[splitwdw]

I have no idea if something like this would work but it's less expensive to try. Would a "salt box roof" over the head of your bed block/deflect noise? Insulate the heck out of it. I had first thought of turning your bed into an insulated coffin but you may be claustrophobic. LOL Calling all engineers, will this work?

 

[Sunset]

I’m not exactly following your point, but I’m positive that noise canceling headphones only work for repeating noises. It generates the canceling signal by assuming the future noise will be the same as the past noise, such as an engine makes. That’s why they don’t work to block out speech, for example.

Noise cancelling is used in shooting earplugs, there it is a sudden unpredictable bang, and the sound intensity varies a huge amount depending on the gun used.

At a range, you are protecting your ears from your shot sounds, and everyone else. The noise is truly random when it happens so they must work based on the sound that arrives at the earplug/headphone, as it's unpredictable in timing and loudness.

 

[travelover]

Noise cancelling is used in shooting earplugs, there it is a sudden unpredictable bang, and the sound intensity varies a huge amount depending on the gun used.

At a range, you are protecting your ears from your shot sounds, and everyone else. The noise is truly random when it happens so they must work based on the sound that arrives at the earplug/headphone, as it's unpredictable in timing and loudness.

The headphones have passive and active suppression. For impulse and high frequency noises, it is the passive part that provides the benefit...I.e. acting as earplugs.

 

[eytonxav]

How could they be quieter neighbors. what are they doing wrong. It seems like just normal everyday living noise. which you should be able to do in your own home..

Perhaps that is the case, but this portion of the OP's post made me think it might be otherwise: "I am often awakened by their footfalls (these are dull "thud, thud, thud" noises, not the sharp clacking of hard-soled shoes or high heels on tile). This is driving me crazy. So if they arise at 5:57am, so do I...or at 7:16am, so do I, etc. Then while lying in bed fuming at my rude awakening, I can then hear them sliding drawers open and closed, and clomping around the bedroom some more."

Don't know what the flooring situation is above and whether that could be addressed with some diplomatic discussion with the upstairs neighbor. I have lived in several apartments early in my life, and have experienced normal noise from above and in a few situations neighbors that are unaware or don't care about others living around them.

 

[ivinsfan]

Perhaps that is the case, but this portion of the OP's post made me think it might be otherwise: "I am often awakened by their footfalls (these are dull "thud, thud, thud" noises, not the sharp clacking of hard-soled shoes or high heels on tile). This is driving me crazy. So if they arise at 5:57am, so do I...or at 7:16am, so do I, etc. Then while lying in bed fuming at my rude awakening, I can then hear them sliding drawers open and closed, and clomping around the bedroom some more."

Don't know what the flooring situation is above and whether that could be addressed with some diplomatic discussion with the upstairs neighbor. I have lived in several apartments early in my life, and have experienced normal noise from above and in a few situations neighbors that are unaware or don't care about others living around them.

Hard to say but sounds as if they are walking barefoot. perhaps going back and forth to their bathroom and shower. I'm at a loss as to what you could "politely" say to someone in those circumstances. Do you think they are doing jumping jacks..so we were in a brand new hotel in Silverthorne, ski area and noticed the bedrooms were wood floors, WTH, you could hear every footstep above and I mean every foot step. I blamed the hotel and not the people upstairs.

 

[Jerry1]

Speaking of noise cancelling headphones (yes this is a bit off topic but I can't help myself), these headphones are on sale at Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...c45-cd78f07a84d8&pf_rd_r=RBXSNKGM69TEP61W1S8E

Only the Rose Gold are $220 but that's a really good deal. I got DW those exact same headphones and watched them all through the holidays and they never went below $279. They're normally $349. DW likes them a lot. I don't because I can't stand the pressure of over the ear headphones on the area just below the ear (medical issue). Otherwise, I'd probably even disregard that Rose Gold is, IMHO, a female color and get a set for myself.