Any Plumbers Here?

[Vincenzo Corleone]

So, for about the fourth or fifth time in 13 years, the water intake valve on my dishwasher failed. I suspect the failures were due to sediments in the water line (a problem I have no control over, since I live in a high-rise building). The time in between failures was about a year or two (maybe even up to three).

The last time the water intake valve failed, I decided that I had enough of forking over hundreds of dollars to Miele to replace the valve and to do the job myself. I found YouTube videos on how to do this using an inexpensive Frigidaire inlet valve available on Amazon. The replacement went well, and the new valve worked for about three months, after which the valve started leaking. The producer of the YouTube video suggested that the cause might be that the water pressure is too high for the valve. Great. I took the valve apart to clean out any sediments but it didn't help - I suppose the valve is shot. When I re-connected everything, however, a leak developed from a nut on the water hose connecting the dishwasher valve to the water supply valve.

Anyway, I suspected that I needed a new hose as well and ordered one from Amazon. I knew which one to get as the current one still had the label on it: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005276CY4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

So, two things:

1) Can anyone list all of the reasons why the dishwasher valve would start to leak

2) Regarding the water hose leak, on the outlet side of the hose (ie, the side that goes to the dishwasher valve) there are two nuts. When disconnected, the nut nearest to the end freely turns left and right endlessly - you can turn it until you're blue in the face and it doesn't go anywhere - its purpose is to thread with the dishwasher valve and connect the two. Right next to this nut is another nut that's very snug and very difficult to turn, even though available threading exists. The leak is occurring in between the two nuts on the outlet side. I checked my Amazon order and saw that the hose comes with only one nut on the outlet side, which means that the plumber who did the original work, put a different fitting on. Can anyone tell me why this fitting may have been chosen?

 

[mountainsoft]

1) Can anyone list all of the reasons why the dishwasher valve would start to leak

2) Regarding the water hose leak, on the outlet side of the hose (ie, the side that goes to the dishwasher valve) there are two nuts. When disconnected, the nut nearest to the end freely turns left and right endlessly - you can turn it until you're blue in the face and it doesn't go anywhere - its purpose is to thread with the dishwasher valve and connect the two. Right next to this nut is another nut that's very snug and very difficult to turn, even though available threading exists. The leak is occurring in between the two nuts on the outlet side.

1. Is it letting water inside the dishwasher even when off (could be sediment or a bad solenoid valve), or leaking onto the floor (probably bad valve).

2. It looks like those two nuts are threaded onto a braided hose. The other end looks like a copper line was cut. I'm guessing a compression fitting was placed on the copper line, possible with an adapter threaded on the braided hose.

Personally, I wouldn't fuss with that assembly. I would just replace the entire braided line with a new one. What does the copper end connect to? I'm assuming a shut-off valve at the wall. I would find a braided line with the correct fittings to run from the shut-off valve at the wall, to the dishwasher solenoid valve. Eliminate all that copper line stuff.

If sediment is really that bad, you might be able to install a sediment water filter under the sink. Any box store would carry them.

 

[target2019]

The way the copper supply line is rolled up, maybe that encourages sediment collection? I would ditch all of that.

As said, you just need one braided supply line with the proper size end connectors.

I just did this, and used a length that could be coiled once or twice and allowed clearance from obstructions.

 

[Vincenzo Corleone]

1. Is it letting water inside the dishwasher even when off (could be sediment or a bad solenoid valve), or leaking onto the floor (probably bad valve).

I don't think it let water inside the dishwasher when off (I hadn't tried it when on after I discovered the leak). It leaked onto the floor.

2. It looks like those two nuts are threaded onto a braided hose. The other end looks like a copper line was cut. I'm guessing a compression fitting was placed on the copper line, possible with an adapter threaded on the braided hose.

No, I'm sorry, bad picture. The copper line is completely separate and feeds my refrigerator. Completely separate. It was just hard for me to take a photo without some kind of background "noise". I only meant for you to focus on the braided hose with the two nuts at the end. I attached another photo (and replaced the one in my original post) that hopefully captures only what I want to focus on - the fitting with two nuts at the end of the braided hose.

Personally, I wouldn't fuss with that assembly. I would just replace the entire braided line with a new one. What does the copper end connect to?

I ordered a new hose from Amazon. It's the same as the one in the photo (I checked the model number on my current hose) but the one I currently have has that fitting with the two nuts, whereas the one on Amazon doesn't. The photo of the same hose on Amazon doesn't have that type of fitting. My original post was inquiring about the purpose of this two-nut fitting, and if I may not have to worry about it

If sediment is really that bad, you might be able to install a sediment water filter under the sink. Any box store would carry them.

I have considered that. I don't know which to get. They have whole-home filters which is overkill for me. I just need it for the dishwasher. I'll figure it out at some point.

Thanks a lot for your reply. Here's the new photo. Again, this is the end that goes into the dishwasher inlet valve.

 

[Vincenzo Corleone]

The way the copper supply line is rolled up, maybe that encourages sediment collection? I would ditch all of that.

As said, you just need one braided supply line with the proper size end connectors.

I just did this, and used a length that could be coiled once or twice and allowed clearance from obstructions.

Yeah, sorry, bad photo. Please see my response to mountainsoft with a new, clearer photo.

 

[pb4uski]

What does the supply (where the hose that goes to the dishwasher connects to) look like? Mine is a valve much like a supply valve to a sink or a toilet. And then the dishwasher supply hose just connects to the supply valve.

Way below is a picture of my dishwasher connection under the kitchen sink. Hot water supply comes up from floor to a tee... straight up is going to the sink and the valve and hose to the right of the tee go to the dishwasher. YMMV.

I'm not sure if sediment would likely plug up a valve... but if you do have a lot of sediment you might have a plumber install a whole house filter where the water comes into your unit. We have one somewhat similar to the picture below and change the filter monthly.

 

[street]

Water runs any direction and poop runs down hill. Lol

 

[aja8888]

Water runs any direction and poop runs down hill. Lol

You forgot steam....it goes up.

 

[Vincenzo Corleone]

What does the supply (where the hose that goes to the dishwasher connects to) look like?

The hot and cold water come into my condo unit through the wall at the bottom of the sink. Each have a main shutoff valve which then connects to a "splitter" cutoff valve(s) - ie, it supplies two things - a line going to the faucet, and a line going to the dishwasher inlet valve. This "splitter" valve (my own terminology - don't know what it's actually called) allows you to stop the hot water going to, say the dishwasher intake valve, while still allowing the hot water going to the faucet.

Please see attached photo, which is only the hot water line (the line that supplies the dishwasher inlet valve) along with its splitter valves. The hose fitting on the left is obscured in the photo but is exactly the same as the hose fitting on the right.

Left side braided hose goes to the dishwasher inlet valve. It is the other end of this hose which I provided a photo in my OP
Right side braided hose goes to the faucet.

I hope this is clear.

 

[Scrapr]

The double nut in your photo is so you can tighten the "male" end without spinning the entire hose. When it gets tight the joint between the 2 nuts tightens up. Sometimes if you get it tight & then wiggle the assembly it will give another quarter or half turn. If it leaked at that joint I would try again and move the assembly a bit to see if you can get a little more bite.

 

[Scrapr]

Water runs any direction and poop runs down hill. Lol

as my Dad said:
don't chew your fingernails.
Water runs downhill
Paydays on Friday
Boss is an ahole

 

[street]

^ love that! Lol

 

[Vincenzo Corleone]

The double nut in your photo is so you can tighten the "male" end without spinning the entire hose. When it gets tight the joint between the 2 nuts tightens up. Sometimes if you get it tight & then wiggle the assembly it will give another quarter or half turn. If it leaked at that joint I would try again and move the assembly a bit to see if you can get a little more bite.

I'm a novice at this stuff, but I think the fitting is a compression fitting. Maybe I damaged the compression ring by over-tightening?

Anyway, yeah, that "feature" of not spinning the entire hose would be important. Maybe I need to look for a different hose that already has this "feature", as attaching a new fitting is way beyond my capabilities.

Thanks for your response.

 

[mountainsoft]

Each have a main shutoff valve which then connects to a "splitter" cutoff valve

Interesting, I've never seen a double-headed valve like that. But, I guess I've never needed one.

Just judging from the photo, it looks like that valve has a standard 3/8" male compression fitting. The braided hose appears to have a female end that screws onto the male valve fitting. Is this correct?

If so, what kind of fitting is on the solenoid valve on your dishwasher? I would assume it's the same kind of 3/8" threaded fitting, though it could be male or female. It could also be a 1/2" fitting, or maybe even a garden hose fitting. You just need to find a braided hose with the proper fittings on each end that is long enough to reach between the dishwasher and your "splitter" shut off valve. These tend to be fairly standard, and are usually labeled as a dishwasher hose at the home center. In fact, they usually come as a kit with a variety of adapters that allow you to connect the most common fittings on each end. Here's one example:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/BrassCr...-3-Appliance-Adaptors-B1U-48DW612-D/202242018

 

[NgineER]

A braided hose with a compression fitting should be able to be tightened without the hose turning. I have never had an issue with the hose turning when tightening it down.

 

[mountainsoft]

I'm a novice at this stuff, but I think the fitting is a compression fitting. Maybe I damaged the compression ring by over-tightening? Anyway, yeah, that "feature" of not spinning the entire hose would be important. Maybe I need to look for a different hose that already has this "feature", as attaching a new fitting is way beyond my capabilities.

Like I said, I wouldn't worry about what the current hose looks like. All that matters is what fitting is on the dishwasher, and what fitting is on your splitter shut off valve. Braided hoses generally have rubber washers on each end (if the end is female), so it's basically like hooking up a garden hose. You just screw it on and only tighten enough for it to stop leaking. Don't over tighten, it doesn't take much force.

 

[Vincenzo Corleone]

Thanks for all the responses. I've attached another photo of what the hose will be connecting to on the dishwasher intake valve. Its an (adapter?) elbow with male threads (I don't use the compression ring or nut that's in the photo). I think the purpose of the elbow is to allow a female 3/8 inch water hose to connect to a 1/2 inch female threaded opening on the actual intake valve (photo of that is also provided).

I guess I'll just see how it goes when the new hose gets here.

 

[pb4uski]

Water runs any direction and poop runs down hill. Lol

Helpful.

 

[NgineER]

Thanks for all the responses. I've attached another photo of what the hose will be connecting to on the dishwasher intake valve. Its an (adapter?) elbow with male threads (I don't use the compression ring or nut that's in the photo). I think the purpose of the elbow is to allow a female 3/8 inch water hose to connect to a 1/2 inch female threaded opening on the actual intake valve (photo of that is also provided).

I guess I'll just see how it goes when the new hose gets here.

With that 90 degree turn you'll just take the compression nut off and use the built in compression nut on the braided hose.

 

[NgineER]

Thanks for all the responses. I've attached another photo of what the hose will be connecting to on the dishwasher intake valve. Its an (adapter?) elbow with male threads (I don't use the compression ring or nut that's in the photo). I think the purpose of the elbow is to allow a female 3/8 inch water hose to connect to a 1/2 inch female threaded opening on the actual intake valve (photo of that is also provided).

I guess I'll just see how it goes when the new hose gets here.

With that 90 degree turn adapter you'll just take the compression nut off and use the built in compression nut on the braided hose.

 

[Elbata]

My $.02.
I've replaced many a dishwasher inlet valve, though never on the Miele.

Few thoughts: You said you have two leaks. Usually, I will almost always diagnose one problem, not two. Because you're a do it your-selfer, you may have created another problem.

Leaky valve--Is water blowing through valve and into dw even when dw is not in use, or is water leaking somewhere around the valve?

Compression hose--Don't worry about the second nut on hose, don't use plumbers tape when attaching hose, and DON'T over-tighten nut. Just get a new hose, put it on, and don't cross-thread.

I would guess the Miele is a higher-end dw. Check with the manufacturer and see if it's OK to use an after-market valve. You could be setting yourself up for a big liability, especially if the valve blows while on vacation and all that water starts to leak down on the units below.

You know the problem is the sediment, not the valve. Either figure out a way to filter out the sediment, or just go clean out the valve every so often. As you've realized, paying big bucks for a new valve is a rip-off.

 

[Vincenzo Corleone]

Leaky valve--Is water blowing through valve and into dw even when dw is not in use, or is water leaking somewhere around the valve?

Water doesn't seem to be making it past the valve when the dishwasher is not in use. The water is leaking out of the valve itself and onto the floor.

You know the problem is the sediment, not the valve. Either figure out a way to filter out the sediment, or just go clean out the valve every so often. As you've realized, paying big bucks for a new valve is a rip-off.

I don't know the problem is the sediment. I suspect the problem is the sediment only because someone suggested that sediment tends to be an issue in high rise buildings like mine. Whether my suspicion is correct or not, I don't know. I'm just grasping for a solution.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[ERD50]

Thanks for all the responses. I've attached another photo of what the hose will be connecting to on the dishwasher intake valve. Its an (adapter?) elbow with male threads (I don't use the compression ring or nut that's in the photo). I think the purpose of the elbow is to allow a female 3/8 inch water hose to connect to a 1/2 inch female threaded opening on the actual intake valve (photo of that is also provided).

I guess I'll just see how it goes when the new hose gets here.

A couple things (so $0.04 worth?):

Looks like the output is just a rubber hose that fits on a barb connector? That would make sense, there is very little pressure on the 'downstream' side of the valve, that just flows into the dishwasher, with little restriction, so little pressure. If you have a restriction there (the sediment you mention?) that could cause problems, and leaks. I had a screen fill with rust particles, the DW filled very slowly until I cleaned that.

If you suspect you may need to change that solenoid valve again, why not use a longer hose to the dishwasher (and maybe longer wires?), and mount the valve under the sink where it is easy to get to?

While a sediment filter might be a good idea, be aware that (at least the ones I've seen), they are not designed to be put on the hot side (plastic won't take the pressure at those temps). So you need to filter before the water heater. OK, that's three, $0.06 then. You might be able to fit one of those hose screens in one of the connections, if the valve doesn't have one built in.

-ERD50

 

[mountainsoft]

Thanks for all the responses. I've attached another photo of what the hose will be connecting to on the dishwasher intake valve. Its an (adapter?) elbow with male threads (I don't use the compression ring or nut that's in the photo). I think the purpose of the elbow is to allow a female 3/8 inch water hose to connect to a 1/2 inch female threaded opening on the actual intake valve (photo of that is also provided).

As NgineER said, just unscrew the compression cap from that elbow, then thread on a standard 3/8" braided dishwasher hose. It looks like you've got a pretty standard (simple) setup. You shouldn't even need the adapters that come with dishwasher hose kits. Just find one long enough to reach.

 

[mountainsoft]

Water doesn't seem to be making it past the valve when the dishwasher is not in use. The water is leaking out of the valve itself and onto the floor.

Is water leaking from the valve itself, or around the threads where that elbow connects? Did you use teflon tape and/or pipe thread sealant on those threads when you installed the elbow? If not, disassemble, apply the sealant, and reassemble. Don't overtighten. Brass is soft and easy to deform.

The braided hose should have rubber washers on each end to seal that connection. Just use a small crescent wrench to snug it up, but don't over tighten.