Any Plumbers Here?

[mountainsoft]

While a sediment filter might be a good idea, be aware that (at least the ones I've seen), they are not designed to be put on the hot side

Good point! Though they do make filters for hot water also:

https://www.amazon.com/KleenWater-Filter-Premier-KWHW2510-Filtration/dp/B0167FZCP4

So you need to filter before the water heater.

That would be the better location as it would keep sediment out of the whole system, not just the dishwasher. Of course, there's no saying the sediment isn't FROM the water heater. Now you gotta replace that.

As Elbata said, fix one thing at a time...

Personally, I would just replace the dishwasher hose and call it done. It's probably cheaper to replace the valve periodically than to go to the trouble and expense of installing a filter. It just adds another maintenance item. As long as the dishwasher is used regularly to flush out the line, I can't imagine sediment being that big of a problem. Dishwashers usually only last about ten years before they need to be replaced anyway.

 

[Vincenzo Corleone]

If you suspect you may need to change that solenoid valve again, why not use a longer hose to the dishwasher (and maybe longer wires?), and mount the valve under the sink where it is easy to get to?

Thanks for taking the time to respond. That's already the setup, except for the mounting. It's been just dangling there under the sink. I do need to mount it.

You might be able to fit one of those hose screens in one of the connections, if the valve doesn't have one built in.

You mean like this one: https://www.sears.com/general-pump-brass-inline-water-filter-3-8inch-npt/p-A066620986

 

[Vincenzo Corleone]

Is water leaking from the valve itself, or around the threads where that elbow connects?

Leaking from the valve itself, not the threads.

Did you use teflon tape and/or pipe thread sealant on those threads when you installed the elbow?

Yes.

 

[Vincenzo Corleone]

That would be the better location as it would keep sediment out of the whole system, not just the dishwasher. Of course, there's no saying the sediment isn't FROM the water heater. Now you gotta replace that.

To be clear - I live in a high rise condo. I don't have access to or control of anything outside of my unit, including the boiler/water heater.

It's probably cheaper to replace the valve periodically than to go to the trouble and expense of installing a filter.

This was what my thinking was too. But if the thing leaks while DW and I aren't home, that could spell big trouble.

 

[Sunset]

To be clear - I live in a high rise condo. I don't have access to or control of anything outside of my unit, including the boiler/water heater.



This was what my thinking was too. But if the thing leaks while DW and I aren't home, that could spell big trouble.

OP - are you able to turn off the water to the dishwasher when you go away on trips to minimize the away risk ?

 

[Vincenzo Corleone]

OP - are you able to turn off the water to the dishwasher when you go away on trips to minimize the away risk ?

Yes. I've considered that option. Still considering it. Just afraid of forgetting to do it, or the valve failing.

 

[Vincenzo Corleone]

Yes. I've considered that option. Still considering it. Just afraid of forgetting to do it, or the valve failing.

When I say, "...the valve failing", I'm referring to the shutoff valve. But in this scenario, both the shutoff valve AND the dishwasher intake valve would have to just happen to fail at the same time. Not a likely scenario.

 

[NgineER]

I would encourage you to get a new shutoff valve. Based on the picture it looks like you have a multi turn stop valve. I detest the multi turn valve as they all leak sooner or later. The 1/4 turn stop (ball valve) valves are much more reliable, so I don't think you would have to worry about the shutoff valve leaking.

 

[Sunset]

I would encourage you to get a new shutoff valve. Based on the picture it looks like you have a multi turn stop valve. I detest the multi turn valve as they all leak sooner or later. The 1/4 turn stop (ball valve) valves are much more reliable, so I don't think you would have to worry about the shutoff valve leaking.

+1
Beyond that, I had a multi-turn shut off valve fail and spurt water all over for 2 days while we were away. I had not even touched it within a year or two (it was back of a toilet).

I replaced it with a 1/4 turn one.

 

[Gulfbeach]

Of all the threads I have read on this board, this is one of the most interesting and useful.
Thank you all so much!

 

[Vincenzo Corleone]

+1
Beyond that, I had a multi-turn shut off valve fail and spurt water all over for 2 days while we were away. I had not even touched it within a year or two (it was back of a toilet).

I replaced it with a 1/4 turn one.

Thank you both, NgineER and Sunset, for mentioning that. I had no idea of the trouble with those things. I should mention for clarity that upstream from the two multi-turn valves is a 1/4 turn ball shutoff valve. I think when it comes to the multi-turn valves, I'd been using the wrong term of "shutoff" instead of "stop" valve, possibly confusing the situation.

 

[Winemaker]

I would suspect the ultimate source of the problem would be pressure not sediment, as you mentioned you are in a high rise. Do you have a gauge that you may be able to attach to a faucet. Gauges are easily installed on laundry tub or wash machine hoses. A daily jolt of high pressure to fill the local water tank,or a booster pump in your building would be providing a daily blow with a sledge hammer to your plastic pump. Also, the addition of a water hammer tee could soften the blow.

Unless, you have a lot of sediment/crud on your faucet aerator screens or your shower heads plug up often, I would rule out sediment.

 

[mountainsoft]

I would suspect the ultimate source of the problem would be pressure not sediment, as you mentioned you are in a high rise. Do you have a gauge that you may be able to attach to a faucet. Gauges are easily installed on laundry tub or wash machine hoses. A daily jolt of high pressure to fill the local water tank,or a booster pump in your building would be providing a daily blow with a sledge hammer to your plastic pump. Also, the addition of a water hammer tee could soften the blow.

I was thinking the same thing last night. I'm on a private well so high pressure isn't something that came to mind. City water pressure can often be much higher.

You can pick up a water pressure gauge at Home Depot like this:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Watts-3-4-in-Plastic-Water-Pressure-Test-Gauge-DP-IWTG/100175467

If it's above 50 or 60 psi, you may want to install a water pressure regulator.

 

[Vincenzo Corleone]

Really great information, everybody. Thanks very much for the help.

 

[Retired Expat]

With that 90 degree turn adapter you'll just take the compression nut off and use the built in compression nut on the braided hose.

Don’t forget the Teflon tape! But EnginER appears correct.

The photo of your old connection looks like there was a copper supply connected to a compression fitting connected to the gasketed braided hose... hence what you are calling a double nut. A bad way to have done it. perhaps the hose was too short and they didn’t want to bother getting another one?

 

[NgineER]

Skip the Teflon tape and pipe dope on compression fittings and braided hoses. The braided hoses have a rubber o-ring which seals the joint. Use dope or Teflon tape on fittings where the threads create the seal.

In this case Teflon tape can actually cause leaks...

 

[Vincenzo Corleone]

Skip the Teflon tape and pipe dope on compression fittings and braided hoses. The braided hoses have a rubber o-ring which seals the joint. Use dope or Teflon tape on fittings where the threads create the seal.

In this case Teflon tape can actually cause leaks...

When I first installed the dishwasher intake valve, I did put Teflon tape where the elbow joined with the valve. No compression fitting in that connection. Is the tape ok there? Thanks.

 

[Vincenzo Corleone]

I would suspect the ultimate source of the problem would be pressure not sediment, as you mentioned you are in a high rise. Do you have a gauge that you may be able to attach to a faucet. Gauges are easily installed on laundry tub or wash machine hoses. A daily jolt of high pressure to fill the local water tank,or a booster pump in your building would be providing a daily blow with a sledge hammer to your plastic pump. Also, the addition of a water hammer tee could soften the blow.

Unless, you have a lot of sediment/crud on your faucet aerator screens or your shower heads plug up often, I would rule out sediment.

Thanks for pointing that out. You're right - I would think I'd be having trouble elsewhere if it were a sediment problem. I'm not. I do see crud on the faucet aerator, but it doesn't seem to be enough to cause problems.

On the other hand, the building was built in the 1970s and still has much of the original plumbing. I had to use a plunger to unclog a bathroom sink drain a few days ago (first time I had to do this in 20 years) and, holy Hannah, the sediments that brought up!.

Another thing - because the stop valve on my hot water in the kitchen sink failed, I found that even though I turned off the hot water shutoff valve, I had to put a small bucket underneath the hose attached to the stop valve (this is the hose that normally would connect to the dishwasher inlet valve - I have it disconnected now). I realized that, even though the shutoff valve for the hot water was turned off, whenever I ran the cold water, residual cold water in the faucet would make it's way to the hot water line. I guess it's able to do that because there's no pressure in the hot water line. So the bucket catches the residual cold water from the hose attached to the hot water line and it's often a little sooty-looking. I suppose that could be caused by a corroding washer or something. It's not much.

Because replacing the failed stop valve it is beyond my comfort level, I decided to break down and call a plumber. I'd ask him to take a reading of the water pressure, but I imagine that the problem would be an intermittent thing and not easily observable without knowing the time of day the jolt in pressure happens. I guess I'll have to do that myself.

 

[mountainsoft]

When I first installed the dishwasher intake valve, I did put Teflon tape where the elbow joined with the valve. No compression settings in that connection. Is the tape ok there? Thanks.

Yes, Teflon tape on threaded connections like the elbow to the valve.

No Teflon tape on braided hose connections as they already have a rubber seal inside the fitting.

 

[mountainsoft]

I had to use a plunger to unclog a bathroom sink drain a few days ago (first time I had to do this in 20 years) and, holy Hannah, the sediments that brought up!.

Better to disassemble the P-trap under the sink and clean it out. We do all of ours every few months or so. It's amazing how much gunk builds up inside the sink drains. Ironically, my wife is usually the one who likes to do that dirty job.

If cleaning out the P-traps doesn't get things flowing, you probably need to run a snake down the drain. You could pay a plumber, but it's one of those basic tools every home owner should have and know how to use. That said, I've only had to snake one drain in the last 25 years.

because the stop valve on my hot water in the kitchen sink failed, I found that even though I turned off the hot water shutoff valve, I had to put a small bucket underneath the hose attached to the stop valve (this is the hose that normally would connect to the dishwasher inlet valve - I have it disconnected now). I realized that, even though the shutoff valve for the hot water was turned off, whenever I ran the cold water, residual cold water in the faucet would make it's way to the hot water line. I guess it's able to do that because there's no pressure in the hot water line. So the bucket catches the residual cold water from the hose attached to the hot water line and it's often a little sooty-looking. I suppose that could be caused by a corroding washer or something. It's not much.

Is water leaking from the valve (around the stem perhaps), or from the hose connection? If it's the latter, you probably just need to replace the hose (or maybe tighten the connection slightly).

I'd ask him to take a reading of the water pressure, but I imagine that the problem would be an intermittent thing and not easily observable without knowing the time of day the jolt in pressure happens. I guess I'll have to do that myself.

Water pressure should be fairly consistent if you're on a public water system. You, or your plumber, can test it any time.

I would be surprised if you have large fluctuations in water pressure on a city supply.

 

[Vincenzo Corleone]

Better to disassemble the P-trap under the sink and clean it out. We do all of ours every few months or so. It's amazing how much gunk builds up inside the sink drains.

Thanks for the tip. I'll do that going forward.

Is water leaking from the valve (around the stem perhaps), or from the hose connection? If it's the latter, you probably just need to replace the hose (or maybe tighten the connection slightly).

From what I can see, the water is leaking at a small gap between the plastic housing and the solenoid.

Water pressure should be fairly consistent if you're on a public water system. You, or your plumber, can test it any time.

I would be surprised if you have large fluctuations in water pressure on a city supply.

I think you're right. I recently spoke with one of my condo's maintenance workers and asked him if other people in the high rise experienced similar dishwasher issues. He said there was no noticeable trend of this problem in other units. I would think if it were a pressure or sediment problem, others would have the same issues. I'll measure the pressure regardless, but I don't think that's it. It must be something specific to my unit. So the mystery continues.

I tried getting in touch with a plumber I used a number of years ago and whose work I liked. I can't get him to return my phone calls.


This is getting frustrating.

 

[mountainsoft]

I would think if it were a pressure or sediment problem, others would have the same issues. I'll measure the pressure regardless, but I don't think that's it. It must be something specific to my unit. So the mystery continues.

Parts can also just be defective or poorly designed. Replacement parts are manufactured in large batches, so if there is a flaw in one they probably all have it. Any time I have to replace a part that has already failed once, I try to find a different supplier so I don't keep getting the same thing. Of course, many parts distributors order from the same supply warehouses so that's not always a sure bet either.

I had a water pump fail repeatedly on my old car. It would only last about a year before it would start leaking again. I did this several times before I finally got one that lasted. It happens.

If you had a sediment or pressure issue I would think you would have other issues in the house. The solenoid valves on your washing machine, leaking toilet valves, etc.

Disconnect the hose to your dishwasher and stick it in a bucket. Turn on the valve to flush out any sediment, then reassemble. Test the water pressure just to be sure. Otherwise, if your dishwasher is more than 10 years old, it may just be time to replace it with a new model.

 

[ERD50]

... I would think if it were a pressure or sediment problem, others would have the same issues. I'll measure the pressure regardless, but I don't think that's it. It must be something specific to my unit. So the mystery continues.
...

I think it was mentioned earlier, you could have a water hammer problem near that DW.

A nearby faucet or other solenoid valve shutting off/on can cause a high pressure shock wave down the pipe. It would weaken as it goes down the line, so other units would not be affected.

I didn't realize they make them with screw on fittings too, you might not even need a plumber, or need to do any soldering. They come in a variety of configurations, two examples:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Homewer...rrestor-with-No-Lead-526-4-38-38B-Z/304826664

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Homewer...ater-Hammer-Arrestor-526-1-34-34B-Z/304826698

These have a bladder in them, which is better than the old "solder a vertical stub" approach. The trapped air eventually is absorbed by the water, the bladder prevents that.

I will sometimes get some water hammering at a couple fixtures, and draining the water from the pipes to get air back in those stubs helps, but it's a pain. I might get a couple of these myself.

-ERD50

 

[Vincenzo Corleone]

I think it was mentioned earlier, you could have a water hammer problem near that DW.

A nearby faucet or other solenoid valve shutting off/on can cause a high pressure shock wave down the pipe. It would weaken as it goes down the line, so other units would not be affected.

I didn't realize they make them with screw on fittings too, you might not even need a plumber, or need to do any soldering. They come in a variety of configurations, two examples:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Homewer...rrestor-with-No-Lead-526-4-38-38B-Z/304826664

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Homewer...ater-Hammer-Arrestor-526-1-34-34B-Z/304826698


These have a bladder in them, which is better than the old "solder a vertical stub" approach. The trapped air eventually is absorbed by the water, the bladder prevents that.

I will sometimes get some water hammering at a couple fixtures, and draining the water from the pipes to get air back in those stubs helps, but it's a pain. I might get a couple of these myself.

-ERD50

Thanks. I hadn't realized that a pressure problem in a building such as mine could be so localized.

 

[Vincenzo Corleone]

Out of all the dishwasher intake valves I've been through, the last one was a non-Miele valve. The Miele valves lasted a couple of years before they stopped working, whereas the non-Miele valve (Frigidaire) lasted only less than four months.


My valve is on the hot water line (even though I think the dishwasher has the ability to heat the water if it was on the cold water line). I'm wondering if anyone knows if it could be possible that my intake valves failed because of the high water temperature. I couldn't find anything about acceptable maximum water temperature in the specs of the Frigidaire valve. It would seem kind of odd to me if that were the case.