Are you a millionaire? Really?

[Koogie]

Don't know if y'all have seen this, or if it is in any way directly related to this thread, but I think it is a really cool presentation/visualization:

That was excellent ! Thanks

 

[Letj]

Whatever they wanted? Well as long as it was local, in season, hadn't spoiled...

I think it's all relative. You don't really miss what you don't have. In my travels around the world, I've known plenty of people who could afford only the basics but had good friends and lots of joy and laughter. I could tell you for many of them, they weren't missing the technology nor high tech medical care but had a great life nevertheless.

 

[Letj]

So, I am far, very far, from the millionaire class as first defined in 1719. But who cares? I bet the millionaires back then were miserable from the summer heat, not having cool AC like I do now.

Probably not as bad as you think. They were better adapted than we are today.

 

[braumeister]

Probably not as bad as you think. They were better adapted than we are today.

And global warming is a modern phenomenon, right?

 

[FIREmenow]

Well, it certainly caused the flooding in LA.

 

[RISP]

That was excellent ! Thanks

+1. Thanks for sharing, FIREmenow!

 

[pb4uski]

Don't know if y'all have seen this, or if it is in any way directly related to this thread, but I think it is a really cool presentation/visualization:...]

I agree... very cool and very effective. I just wonder if the income axis is real or nominal.

And there is probably a realistic ceiling on age.... though someone might have said the same thing 100 years ago and been proven wrong... longevity doubled over 200 years... could it do so again?

 

[Danmar]

I agree... very cool and very effective. I just wonder if the income axis is real or nominal.

And there is probably a realistic ceiling on age.... though someone might have said the same thing 100 years ago and been proven wrong... longevity doubled over 200 years... could it do so again?

Yes it was very interesting. Income must be real. Clearly illustrates that things are getting a lot better on average.

 

[cyber888]

Well, we are comparing today with the year 1768, right? While the real monetary value has gone down, the other side of the equation - quality of life has gone up. If you were a millionaire traveling in 1768, you'd be in a dinky boat. Today, you'd be traveling in a Jet. If you were a millionaire then, you'd be lucky to not be dead at 45 years old with the plague or from drinking non-pasteurize milk. With today's medical breakthrough, you'd live till a 100. If you were a millionaire then, you'd probably be waiting 6 months for a letter from overseas, while today it takes a second to get email. Today, the houses of non-millionaires are more comfortable with electricity, potable water, TV, telephone, winter heating, compared to Multi-millionaire Ibeniza Scrooge who can hardly part a sixpence for a lump of coal.


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[Mr._Graybeard]

There comes a point where one has more money than there is useful stuff to buy. Probably more so in Thomas Jefferson's time than now. So what would the person with the equivalent of 641 Million $ do with that money in TJ's time? He didn't even have running water..

That reminds me of a passage from McCullough's biography of John Adams from the time JA and Jefferson were representing the US in Paris. According to McCullough, Adams was quite appalled by Jefferson's spendthrift ways. Jefferson apparently found plenty of merchandise to ship home to Monticello.

Of course, Adams was also appalled by Franklin's sexual escapades in the Old World. He seemed to take some pleasure in being appalled.

 

[laurence]

Don't know if y'all have seen this, or if it is in any way directly related to this thread, but I think it is a really cool presentation/visualization:

I was going to post this! It's my favorite video, I use this to shut down conversations about the world going to hell/end times/build a bunker. I know I don't change their minds but at least they stop trying to sell their vacuum packed dystopia to me!

 

[FIREmenow]

I was going to post this! It's my favorite video, I use this to shut down conversations about the world going to hell/end times/build a bunker. I know I don't change their minds but at least they stop trying to sell their vacuum packed dystopia to me!

Dystopia always makes for good movies, though.

 

[Texas Proud]

I was going to post this! It's my favorite video, I use this to shut down conversations about the world going to hell/end times/build a bunker. I know I don't change their minds but at least they stop trying to sell their vacuum packed dystopia to me!

BUT, BUT, BUT..... Don't you know it is different THIS TIME!!!!

 

[bclover]

I was going to post this! It's my favorite video, I use this to shut down conversations about the world going to hell/end times/build a bunker. I know I don't change their minds but at least they stop trying to sell their vacuum packed dystopia to me!

Me too, although a few people revert back to " We're going to be forced into Sharia law".



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[Redbugdave]

I think most people look back with 20-20 vision from today's standards. Sure...medicine and technology are better today than the 1700 or 1800's. Lifespans are longer now. But, I think millionaires of the past still lived a better life than millionaires of today. Think about it...the rule of law did not apply to the upper class as much as it does today. Those folks did whatever they wanted to do. They made the law. The Robber Barons of the 1800's and early 1900's really lived lavishly in a different style than the rich of today. Think of the land and empires these people owned. Look at the Biltmore Estate for instance in it's heyday. Many of these rich people may have lived shorter lives with more disease but the quality of life is what counts in my eyes.

Now try to think ahead to the future of the rich. I think the age we live in now has no reference to the future. We can only look back with tinted glasses. In the future, there will be less resources, more people, less land, and because of that probably more wars. I do realize the rich are insulated from much of this, but when resources are strained it affects everybody.

Opinions? What are my flaws? This is an interesting subject for me.

 

[2017ish]

...

Now try to think ahead to the future of the rich. I think the age we live in now has no reference to the future. We can only look back with tinted glasses. In the future, there [1.] will be less resources, [2.] more people, [3.] less land, and because of that probably more wars. I do realize the rich are insulated from much of this, but when resources are strained it affects everybody.

Opinions? What are my flaws? This is an interesting subject for me.

1. See Julian Simon; see also fracking, etc.
2. Maybe, although growth is tapering off pretty rapidly outside of Africa. But this has been a long term fear. See Julian Simon and Paul Erlich, "the Bet." See also number 1 (with emphasis on farming) Cf. Malthus.
3. Less land? I don't get this one.

interesting subject, for sure.

 

[GravitySucks]

I had tea and pop overs at Jordan Pond today just like John D. Rockefeller did a hundred years ago.
It's not all about how much once there is enough.

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[laurence]

I think most people look back with 20-20 vision from today's standards. Sure...medicine and technology are better today than the 1700 or 1800's. Lifespans are longer now. But, I think millionaires of the past still lived a better life than millionaires of today. Think about it...the rule of law did not apply to the upper class as much as it does today. Those folks did whatever they wanted to do. They made the law. The Robber Barons of the 1800's and early 1900's really lived lavishly in a different style than the rich of today. Think of the land and empires these people owned. Look at the Biltmore Estate for instance in it's heyday. Many of these rich people may have lived shorter lives with more disease but the quality of life is what counts in my eyes.

Now try to think ahead to the future of the rich. I think the age we live in now has no reference to the future. We can only look back with tinted glasses. In the future, there will be less resources, more people, less land, and because of that probably more wars. I do realize the rich are insulated from much of this, but when resources are strained it affects everybody.

Opinions? What are my flaws? This is an interesting subject for me.

A millionaire today can be anywhere in the world in 24 hours or less, flying in the sky in their own private suite. That's just one example of how yesteryear just can't compare. The richest 19th century robber barron still can only see his home town in England/Ireland/Germany once every couple years, at most.

 

[dallas27]

I think most people look back with 20-20 vision from today's standards. Sure...medicine and technology are better today than the 1700 or 1800's. Lifespans are longer now. But, I think millionaires of the past still lived a better life than millionaires of today. Think about it...the rule of law did not apply to the upper class as much as it does today. Those folks did whatever they wanted to do. They made the law. The Robber Barons of the 1800's and early 1900's really lived lavishly in a different style than the rich of today. Think of the land and empires these people owned. Look at the Biltmore Estate for instance in it's heyday. Many of these rich people may have lived shorter lives with more disease but the quality of life is what counts in my eyes.

Now try to think ahead to the future of the rich. I think the age we live in now has no reference to the future. We can only look back with tinted glasses. In the future, there will be less resources, more people, less land, and because of that probably more wars. I do realize the rich are insulated from much of this, but when resources are strained it affects everybody.

Opinions? What are my flaws? This is an interesting subject for me.

Not one iota of free internet porn, check and mate.


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[NW-Bound]

I think most people look back with 20-20 vision from today's standards. Sure...medicine and technology are better today than the 1700 or 1800's. Lifespans are longer now. But, I think millionaires of the past still lived a better life than millionaires of today. Think about it...the rule of law did not apply to the upper class as much as it does today. Those folks did whatever they wanted to do. They made the law. The Robber Barons of the 1800's and early 1900's really lived lavishly in a different style than the rich of today. Think of the land and empires these people owned. Look at the Biltmore Estate for instance in it's heyday.

Well, it depends on the particular era. If you talk about not just the millionaire class, but the ruling class or the elite, then yes, they made the law until the peasants decided that them laws sucked. Off with their heads! Here came the French Revolution, the Russian Revolution, the Chinese Revolution, etc...

Many of these rich people may have lived shorter lives with more disease but the quality of life is what counts in my eyes.

I beg to differ. I am not going to trade the positive aspects of modern life for the right to sit on a throne, and order someone to make me a fancy meal whenever I want one. Nor would I want to trade off my car for getting driven in a horse carriage, or being pulled in a rickshaw. That's no quality of life!

Now try to think ahead to the future of the rich. I think the age we live in now has no reference to the future. We can only look back with tinted glasses. In the future, there will be less resources, more people, less land, and because of that probably more wars. I do realize the rich are insulated from much of this, but when resources are strained it affects everybody...

Yes, eventually people will have to learn to do with less, as the earth resources dwindle. We certainly have a lot of excesses right now (OMG, EVs with "ludicrous acceleration"!). But the amenities people need for comfort will be more widely available for a while, compared to the period of few centuries ago as described in the OP post.

 

[Music Lover]

But, I think millionaires of the past still lived a better life than millionaires of today. Think about it...the rule of law did not apply to the upper class as much as it does today. Those folks did whatever they wanted to do. They made the law. The Robber Barons of the 1800's and early 1900's really lived lavishly in a different style than the rich of today.

The rule of law doesn't seem to apply to most of the ruling class. I know we can't get political, but there are far too many instances of certain politicians breaking the law seemingly at will with no repercussions for their actions.

No matter how good the ruling class had it back then, they didn't have central heating or cooling, plumbing, running water, or even ice cubes for their drinks. All travel was by horse, boat, or train, and a letter took weeks or months to get to the destination.

 

[Al in Ohio]

Very interesting observation Braumeister! Thanks for the reality check.


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[Al in Ohio]

Would anyone trade being alive today with 1-2 million to go back and be a billionaire robber baron, but live in the 1900s-1930s and all their problems?

I wouldn't.


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Take a tour of say the Biltmore and see how they lived. Think Downton Abbey in the USA on 1000 acres of prime land with semi-annual voyages to Europe to keep abreast of the latest fashion. Yeah I'd give up my flatscreen and cell phone for that. You could actually enjoy a good novel or two.


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[Texas Proud]

I do not know why people are comparing a millionaire with the robber barons or the ruling class... these people had much more than a million...

I wish I could find out the net worth of some of them, but here is a line in Carnegie in wiki...

He built Pittsburgh's Carnegie Steel Company, which he sold to J.P. Morgan in 1901 for $480 million

Also...

After selling Carnegie Steel, he surpassed Rockefeller as the richest American for the next couple of years, reaching a personal net worth of US$310 billion


​

Now, that was 1900 dollars...

 

[NW-Bound]

No, it was in today's dollars. The same Wiki article has a summary box that says "Net worth: US$309 billion in 2007 dollars, according to Forbes".

That's still 4X Bill Gates' net worth, which is the highest in the world at $75B.