California Water Restrictions

[Koolau]

I just wonder where the PUC or whatever it's called in various areas is. I know they regulate prices, but don't they have some say in what plants can be shut down and how much power needs to be available to prevent black-outs?

 

[Sunset]

Yeah, I was freaked out by that forecast having just arrived a couple of weeks ago. Never guessed we'd be having August weather in mid June. What a time for black outs, eh? (I know what some folks are thinking. Who vacations from Hawaii to the Midwest in summer? Well, it does beat winter - but just barely it would appear.)

I've been trying to think of some defensive moves in case the power does go out. I'm more worried about AC than, say, the fridge. Lights I've got covered. Cooking - who cooks PB&J? Water is no problem.

Now I'm thinking I'll stockpile ice and pour it into our 2 person shower. We can sit on the built in seats and read by flashlight while we wait for the power to come back on. As long as it's no longer than several hours, we should be good. YMMV

Cook on the BBQ, and live in the basement.
Buy a kiddie pool, fill it with the hose and sit in it and enjoy the warm weather.

 

[NW-Bound]

Try growing your own food and get an appreciation for how close we are to starvation.

A lot of people in my area gave up on their pandemic gardens. It's tough, even with sufficient water. It's all the other critters who want to enjoy your food that drives growers crazy.

Ah, tell me about it!

We have a vegetable garden, and if we had to rely on it, we would not last long. Yes, it's a constant battle against pests, insects, and fungi of all sorts. And recently, in broad daylight, my wife called me out to the backyard to see a roof rat climbing a tomato vine to eat its fruit. Gah! Roof rats are nocturnal animals, and if one has to venture out to eat in the middle of the day, it has to be very hungry and failed to find something to eat the night before. But I digress...

Back on where our food comes from, I know it comes off the supermarket shelves, but who put it there?

In one RV trip some years ago, I made a stop to spend the night at a Walmart in Helena, Montana. I usually slept like a log after a day of driving, but that night I woke up in the early morning hours, could not go back to sleep so took a walk around the empty parking lot.

That's when I saw the shelf stockers who were having a break and hanging out in front of the store. Of course, they had to work at night, so as to not impede shoppers during the day.

I remember reading somewhere that if the shelves were not restocked constantly, they would be empty in a few days. There are a lot of workers in the production chain between the farms and the store shelves. Of course, it was obvious once I thought about it, but I never reflected more deeply about it.

 

[NW-Bound]

We are in a stable zone, but there are lots of coal plants being shut down over the next 8? years. So I don’t expect coal plants to provide much backup to the nuclear fleet. Lots of windmills and solar farms going up, but I doubt they will produce as much as the coal plants being closed.

Windmills and solar farms can produce a lot. I have no doubt about it.

The problem is getting them to produce 24/7 year round.

 

[explanade]

I think about this often. Perhaps this summer, we'll get a wakeup when folks (other than in Cali) will experience black outs just about the time it's 99 outside in the Midwest. Will we wake up? Check this space in 2 months since YMMV.

I'm in the midwest and served by MISO, which is a region that is likely to have rolling blackouts, and we have multiple days in the week or so ahead forecast in the upper 90's.

I'm in the nuclear triangle southwest of Chicago in the midst of 3 nuclear plants, 6 reactors totaling 6551 mw. We'll still probably have some blackouts.

What are the reasons?

They're going to take plants offline for maintenance?

 

[JoeWras]

Back on where our food comes from, I know it comes off the supermarket shelves, but who put it there?

In one RV trip some years ago, I made a stop to spend the night at a Walmart in Helena, Montana. I usually slept like a log after a day of driving, but that night I woke up in the early morning hours, could not go back to sleep so took a walk around the empty parking lot.

That's when I saw the shelf stockers who were having a break and hanging out in front of the store. Of course, they had to work at night, so as to not impede shoppers during the day.

I remember reading somewhere that if the shelves were not restocked constantly, they would be empty in a few days. There are a lot of workers in the production chain between the farms and the store shelves. Of course, it was obvious once I thought about it, but I never reflected more deeply about it.

Yes, and the reason I bring up the food situation is because I think it is very germane to this topic.

We are a society of "city boys and girls" who don't put a lot of thought into our daily survival. That is a good thing! It means our society is functioning well when we are so secure in so many things.

And then one day, we don't have baby formula, or we don't have water, or we don't have electricity. Suddenly we realize just how close to it all falling down can be.

Water is the key to life. The stat above that about 10 or 15% of the water being for urban consumption is interesting. Meanwhile, agriculture is near 50%. One theme I kind of got from the discussion over the last 100 or so posts kind of goes like this:
- California agriculture is using massive amounts of water
- California almonds are terrible at the amount of water uptake per edible product produced

OK, so there's an unsaid message that the valley growers should just abandon almonds and move to something else?

It's not that easy. First, how about we start with grapes? Who needs wine anyway? Second, almonds are pretty key to those of us who have reduced or eliminated meat products. And so on.

One person's perfect crop is another's imperfect. There's a list of about 20 other things grown in the valleys that can be examined. I see cannabis on the list. Might as well start there.

It's complicated. And frankly, although I sit here in moist southeast, I should be more concerned about the topic of this thread because the rest of the country is very dependent on California agriculture.

 

[Pellice]

My sister-in-law from San Diego is visiting us. When I mentioned water shortage and drought out here in the West, she gave me a blank look.

I then talked about potential electricity shortage and rolling black outs, another blank look.

Interesting that she is unaware of this - it must be huge, daily news in California. Ahd she will be in for a surprise upon returning home - San Diego is now under (mild) water restrictions:
https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/l...iego/509-f54bd6e9-215f-4e0e-8141-1ee8f6bb0259

San Diego has apparently been better than most at proactive measures to ensure its water supply, but it too is slipping towards the sinkhole (or mudslide, in Cali.)

 

[Pellice]

It's complicated. And frankly, although I sit here in moist southeast, I should be more concerned about the topic of this thread because the rest of the country is very dependent on California agriculture.

Well, I am going to offer up a pathetic "drop in the bucket" statement, but many of us are in a position to alleviate *some* of the pressure on California agriculture with our home gardens. I have a 10 x 10 square foot garden, with less than ideal sun, and would say that I am almost self-sufficient year round in greens, even here in NJ. Some lettuces grow in very cold conditions, as does spinach and some others. And I have far from an ideal plot, as my HOA restricts it to a certain carve-out next to our back walkouts. (Perhaps pressure can be brought on HOAs that they must allow some space for home gardens. The snootier ones do not.)

And lettuces are such a pretty and decorative plant! They grow well in planters.

I realize this is truly no replacement for California ag, but we *can* do something. Your point about growing demand for almonds to replace milk is a good one. I'm a cow milk drinker but many are not. However, apparently California is home to the nation's biggest dairy industry, which uses huge amounts of water, and seems to me an even easier foodstuff to switch out to other states, should water prices rise, and availability fall further, in California. But I keep reminding myself I do not really know the economics of the situation.

 

[JoeWras]

Well, I am going to offer up a pathetic "drop in the bucket" statement, but many of us are in a position to alleviate *some* of the pressure on California agriculture with our home gardens. I have a 10 square foot garden, with less than ideal sun, and would say that I am almost self-sufficient year round in greens, even here in NJ. Some lettuces grow in very cold conditions, as does spinach and some others. And I have far from an ideal plot, as my HOA restricts it to a certain carve-out next to our back walkouts. (Perhaps pressure can be brought on HOAs that they must allow some space for home gardens. The snootier ones do not.)

And lettuces are such a pretty and decorative plant! They grow well in planters.

Yes. I think everyone should try to grow something, even if it is herbs on the windowsill. It all helps and gives you an appreciation for how we get our food.

I have two raised beds. They have wire sides to keep out the rabbits, and a removable wire top to keep out the deer. It is a lot of work, but worth it for the taste. They are small enough that I can kind of make them a cold frame of sorts, so I'm planning on trying winter lettuce next year. My current lettuce is wilting in the heat, so it is now onto the tomatoes. The critters that attack them are fungus and aphids.

 

[Pellice]

My current lettuce is wilting in the heat, so it is now onto the tomatoes. The critters that attack them are fungus and aphids.

I don't think you'll even need a cold frame for winter lettuce in the SE. Sometimes it "dies back" from frost, but it re-generates again. Summer is the hardest, but there is a type of lettuce called "Batavian lettuces" which are supposed to grow even in summer heat. I am trying some this year, but am sceptical.

 

[MichaelB]

Yes. I think everyone should try to grow something

Well, I’m growing old, does that count?

 

[JoeWras]

I don't think you'll even need a cold frame for winter lettuce in the SE. Sometimes it "dies back" from frost, but it re-generates again. Summer is the hardest, but there is a type of lettuce called "Batavian lettuces" which are supposed to grow even in summer heat. I am trying some this year, but am sceptical.

I need to explore more about lettuce varieties. Thanks.

The current version I'm growing gets knocked back hard by the frost. Doesn't die, but doesn't grow either.

And to the topic: lettuce is big with California growers.

 

[Ronstar]

What are the reasons?

They're going to take plants offline for maintenance?

That's one of the reasons. They take units offline about every 18 months for maintenance and to refuel. And they alternate so that there are not 2 units off at the same time. Never planned outages in the summer.

I'm not too concerned about the nukes. I'm concerned about what handles peak loads. Lots of coal plants being retired.

 

[street]

I do think many changes need to be made and excellent leadership will be needed to transition from how we live today going forward.

With ~ 49 years of oil left to be extracted in the world is a scary thought. This country needs to turn to other sources. Products need to be made from something other than petroleum products. Water, electricity and food so many take for granted.

 

[cathy63]

...
OK, so there's an unsaid message that the valley growers should just abandon almonds and move to something else?

It's not that easy. First, how about we start with grapes? Who needs wine anyway? Second, almonds are pretty key to those of us who have reduced or eliminated meat products...

According to Smithsonian Magazine https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smar...ht-hits-worlds-top-almond-producer-180978470/ "The state [California] produces roughly 80 percent of the world’s almonds, shipping about 70 percent of its yield overseas to places like India, East Asia, and Europe."

It seems like there could be a happy medium somewhere in between "growers should be able to use as much water as they want" and "water regulation will lead to shortages of almond milk". Perhaps some other countries with Mediterranean climates could plant a few almond trees of their own.

Also, if you ban grapes in the Central Valley, you're going to have shortages of raisins (100% of US raisins are grown in CA) and table grapes (99% from CA), not wine, which is made in a lot more places.

 

[MichaelB]

Try growing your own food and get an appreciation for how close we are to starvation.

A lot of people in my area gave up on their pandemic gardens. It's tough, even with sufficient water. It's all the other critters who want to enjoy your food that drives growers crazy.

It’s tough to grow food but people learn - or they go hungry. Our family in Venezuela, and everyone we know there who owns even a small patch of land, has a vegetable garden and grows as much food as they can. Otherwise they’ll starve. Barter thrives among neighbors.

 

[Chuckanut]

Try growing your own food and get an appreciation for how close we are to starvation.

A lot of people in my area gave up on their pandemic gardens. It's tough, even with sufficient water. It's all the other critters who want to enjoy your food that drives growers crazy.

The only good luck I ever had raising my own veggies was using the tips in a book called - IIRC - Square Foot Gardening. I used raised planter beds with thick protective wire cage over the plants. I no longer have room to do that.

These days , the darn squirrels dig up everything new I plant, even in pots. I finally learned to NOT fill in the holes they leave behind. Filling the holes is an open invitation to dig things up again.

 

[NW-Bound]

Interesting that she is unaware of this - it must be huge, daily news in California. Ahd she will be in for a surprise upon returning home - San Diego is now under (mild) water restrictions:
https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/l...iego/509-f54bd6e9-215f-4e0e-8141-1ee8f6bb0259

San Diego has apparently been better than most at proactive measures to ensure its water supply, but it too is slipping towards the sinkhole (or mudslide, in Cali.)

Some people do not watch the newscast on TV, nor listen to the radio. Me neither.

But I do read news on the Web, and there are good sources if one cares to look.

 

[JoeWras]

The only good luck I ever had raising my own veggies was using the tips in a book called - IIRC - Square Foot Gardening. I used raised planter beds with thick protective wire cage over the plants. I no longer have room to do that.

These days , the darn squirrels dig up everything new I plant, even in pots. I finally learned to NOT fill in the holes they leave behind. Filling the holes is an open invitation to dig things up again.

Yes! I man, squirrels drive me ... squirrelly!

They are the first reason I created tops for my beds. It seems when the soil settles down, they lose their interest in digging, or, if they dig, they plants are at least established by then. I then take off the tops for the big plants like tomatoes and peppers.

A few things I learned in the last few years:
- Put bottoms of hardware cloth on your beds. This keeps out the bottom diggers like chipmunks
- Create swing-out side panels so you can access your plants
- Tops are good to keep out squirrels and deer
- Many organic compounds work "good enough" on aphids for tomatoes
- Get tomato seed varieties that are resistant to the fungi in your area
- Don't plant tomatoes in the same bed year to year
- Be careful of "deer netting" near the ground. You might catch snakes in it.
- Rain barrel water works great on small beds
- Next winter I'm going to try marine vinyl and see if I can create small greenhouses in place of my hardware cloth panels

I learned a difficult lesson on the snake thing. I have no problems with snakes, even living in copper head country. I make a lot of noise and stomp around and they leave. The black racers take care of pests. But last year I was using deer netting everywhere to keep out critters. On a very sad morning, I accidentally caught a black racer in the netting. It was a mess. The poor thing worked its way through the net and it was cutting into the skin. I don't know how to handle snakes, so I put on long thick gloves and kind of tried to cut it off and let it go. I'm not sure it made it. Now, I only use the netting on my tops, and even then, only sparingly. Expensive hardware cloth everywhere else.

Growing is super rewarding, very friendly for the environment, a great hobby for us ER folks, but also sometimes difficult and frustrating.

I think every bit helps if we can grow our own and take pressure off the California growers.

Here's my garden today. The hose is connected to a rain barrel that is 15' higher (works great). When it runs out, I use the drip lines or hand watering. You can see my deer net top I have over the lettuce. Once the lettuce is done, I'll take that off and just harvest the cukes.

 

[W2R]

[...]
Here's my garden today. [...]

Wow! I love your garden and the way you have it set up!

I had a large vegetable garden back in the 1980's, in College Station, Texas. We had trouble with crows and other animals eating the vegetables, even though we had a scarecrow and chased them away ourselves sometimes. I think maybe my late ex eventually put up chicken wire to protect some of the vegetables although I don't remember any more. I watered it by hand. Hard to believe it's been ~40 years.

Anyway, there were still plenty of fresh and healthy vegetables and salad ingredients left for my family to eat. So delicious and fresh compared with grocery store produce! I also baked fresh bread as needed, which we liked.

I don't do any of that any more but probably should although I might be too old to take care of a big garden now. The total knee replacement followed by lockdown and then severe long Covid has weakened me considerably.

 

[swakyaby]

Joe’s vegetable garden made me smile.

 

[JoeWras]

Aw, man, I'm humbled. Really. <blushing>

 

[NW-Bound]

The following is just a small portion of my wife's planting that causes us to use so much water.

If we were in a cooler or more humid place, it would be a lot easier to grow these, and it also would take much less water.

 

[Koolau]

Cook on the BBQ, and live in the basement.
Buy a kiddie pool, fill it with the hose and sit in it and enjoy the warm weather.

You haven't seen my basement. It was dug out 150 years ago.

 

[Bergamo]

I do think many changes need to be made and excellent leadership will be needed to transition from how we live today going forward.

With ~ 49 years of oil left to be extracted in the world is a scary thought. This country needs to turn to other sources. Products need to be made from something other than petroleum products. Water, electricity and food so many take for granted.

Do you have a reference for the 49 years? When I last checked the US had 100 years of untapped oil. We have huge reserves.

What alternatives are there for water, electricity and food?