Colorado River

[SecondAttempt]

I don't want to start a debate about climate change. I'm trying to ask a focused question on something I've observed that does not seem to make sense.

I have been watching the water levels at Lake Mead and Lake Powell for the last couple of years. I lived most of my life in Arizona and the last "crisis" I remember was in the early 80s when there was serious worry of Glen Canyon Dam (Lake Powell) overtopping.

Now it seems that Lake Mead is less than 5 feet of "minimum power pool," the level at which it cannot generate power. Lake Power is only about 30 feet above that level. If water levels drop as they have in the past year, both dams will stop generating power in the next year. By itself that is not a crisis because the US has plenty of generating capacity.

But both downstream lakes/dams, Lake Mojave and Lake Havasu, are nearly full. So why not just let those lakes drop a little to fulfil our water delivery obligations to Mexico and California? Why not just close the valve on Lake Mead, take the power generation hit, and let is rise a little?

The most recent plan I read is to release about half a million acre feet from a reservoir in Wyoming. But, while that may be one action to take it really does not solve the problem. Rocky mountain snowpack this year is 86% of average so we can expect low river flows.

Part of me suspects a manufactured crisis or simply gross mismanagemnt of water flows to keep the lower lakes full while critically endangering Mead and Powell.

Any insights? Am I missing something?

Edit: Damn keyboard makes typos!

 

[Bamaman]

We were by Lake Powell last June and were surprised at the low levels of the lake. There were hundreds of houseboats in storage out of the water at the time. It was quite disappointing to see the pending drought situation.

I really don't know how much electricity is produced out of the above mentioned dams in a given year. I bet it's nothing like you see out of a big coal fired or nuclear powered steam facility, however. The only substantial hydro power comes out of the Pacific Northwest.

And I agree about not starting any discussion about climate change. Add right to life to that list of taboo subjects best not to be discussed.

 

[JoeWras]

I don't know if the managers have water quality requirements to benefit wildlife or humans.

For example, here in NC, we had a bad drought in the mid 2000s. Our lake level dropped to all time lows. Water management (US Army Corp) turned down the outflow significantly.

However, just as the drought got to the worst point, they had to turn UP the outflow so that towns downstream were getting proper river flow to dilute the treated sewage. There was concern that towns way downstream were going to get too high of a concentration of treated sewage as part of their water intake supply.

Something like this, or even more complex (wildlife, silting, temperature, etc.), may be in play here on the Colorado.

 

[zinger1457]

Since Lake Powell is upstream it seems the more likely scenario will be to empty Lake Powell and keep Lake Mead going, it's estimated that the water levels at Lake Powell may drop to levels in the next two years that the Glen Canyon Dam will not be able to generate power. There have been groups that have been pushing for that to happen for many years but haven't been taken seriously, that may change.

 

[street]

I don't have any intelligent answer, but that snowpack and drought is mostly the problem. The Yellowstone River which I own land had a historical low level in August of 2021. It is one of the major rivers in US that is not dammed and is a wild river. The river water level is not good this spring so far and don't expect it to get any better this year.

 

[ponyboy]

I cant speak for the colorado river but I have seen archeologists find fossils of sea creatures in mountains before. Guess water levels have been adjusting for millions of years.

 

[Ronstar]

One of the plans that I read was to drain Lake Powell and put it in Lake Mead.

A major contributing factor to lake levels lowering is evaporation. Evaporation increases when surface area increases. So the thought is to lessen the surface area of combined Powell/Mead and store it in Mead alone at a smaller surface area in order to lessen evaporation.

There is also a theory that Powell may have a leak somewhere.

The situation is not good regardless of what measures are taken. Need a lot more rain/snow melt.

 

[Turbo29]

Lake Havasu only holds 620,000 acre-feet when full and is only ~100ft deep. Being as it was built mainly to back up water for the Colorado River Aqueduct (and later the Central Arizona Project) intakes, I don't know how much its level can be lowered.

Lake Mojave, impounded by Davis Dam, holds 1.8 million acre-feet and is ~120Ft deep. There may be international treaty restrictions on its operation but I'm just guessing here.

"Construction of Davis Dam was a requirement of the 1944 Water Treaty with Mexico to regulate water released from Hoover Dam for delivery to Mexico."

Overview of Lake Mohave

 

[Retch The Grate]

I cant speak for the colorado river but I have seen archeologists find fossils of sea creatures in mountains before. Guess water levels have been adjusting for millions of years.

That's more because of the crust of the earth moving, the mountain ridges that have ocean fossils were much lower hundreds of millions of years ago but have been pushed up and weathered down over time.

 

[COcheesehead]

You know how much it costs to get water from the Colorado River in western Colorado? About $20 a month for the average household.
Water the lawn, fill the pool, let the tap run…
If water is rare or soon to be rare, it needs to “cost” something.

 

[mojavesue]

I've lived in Las Vegas since the mid 90s. The last time Lake Mead was close to full was I think in 99. The past 20 or so years have been really dry across the west. Las Vegas had the foresight to put in a 3rd straw at a lake elevation of 880 ft. So Las Vegas could literally be the last user of the lake if it got to that point. The first intake was exposed just last week as the elevation has reached around 1050. Full pool I believe is 1225 ft. The problem is the Colorado just doesnt have the volume it once did to satisfy the demands. California and Arizona get the majority of the lower basin water and a big portion of that goes to irrigation farming. The Bureau of Reclamation and the federal government is going to have to get aggressive with reducing allocation. There was a possibility that Powell would drop below the level to produce power so they are releasing water from Flaming Gorge in Wyoming to supplement it. Just a temporary move to buy some time though. I believe they are also holding some water back in Powell so that will affect Mead. The Bureau estimates Mead elevation next year at around 1025 feet. The snowpack has not yielded the same water in recent years due to the extreme drying of the atmosphere. So instead of normal runoff, it dries and evaporates or gets absorbed by the soil. I do agree with COcheesehead that water rates are really low to promote real conservation. There will be some hard decisions made soon otherwise I think we're in for some not good outcomes.

 

[mojavesue]

Just as an example of the drying, we're here at our New Mexico place just north of Albuquerque. We didnt get ANY precipitation for the month of April! The mountains are super dry for this time of the year. Consequently, we have several large fires going on right now. Completely abnormal this time of year. Oh, and the winds have been absolutely relentless this past month. Almost every day we are seeing 30 plus mph winds in the afternoon. Last Friday we had 40 mph sustained winds with gusts over 70!

 

[Sunset]

DW was telling me they found a body in a barrel because of the low water levels.

Seems the saying "What happens in Las Vegas, stays in Las Vegas" only counts with high water levels

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/02/us/lake-mead-body-barrel-water-level-drought-climate/index.html

 

[SecondAttempt]

And now they are starting to find the bodies dumped in the lake over the decades.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/02/us/lake-mead-body-barrel-water-level-drought-climate/index.html

I lived in Arizona most of my life until a few years ago. Water issues were always a concern but never something I took much interest in. But even in the mid 2000s I was dismayed in seeing the bathtup rings at both lakes.

The water issues are both natural and political. Political not in D/R, liberal/conservative, but in that the states negotiate away their water rights for concessions from each other in other areas. Arizona, for example, gave up some rights to Nevada in exchange for concessions on gambling. I don't recall the details but it has been happening for decades.

But my question was more about why they are letting Mead drop to unproductive levels (no power generation).

In grad school I took a course in multiobjective decision analysis and the professor just so happened to be one of the experts on dam management. Most of our assignments/projects had to do with hydroelectric dams. I am very tempted to reach out to him. I understand that there are many factors that go into dam management decisions including water delivery, flood control, fish kills, power generation, contractual and treaty and release obligations, evaporation reduction, and so forth. But I've tried to look into those factors in this situation but the information I've found still does not explain things.

I think the best clue from this thread was the comment that Lake Mohave and Lake Havasu are shallow lakes so allowing them to drop even a couple tens of feet can lead to a significant loss of function. Lake Mead holds about 26 million acre-feet. That is about 50 times as large as Lake Havasu and 13 times larger than Lake Mojave. So maybe the answer is as simple as using the two lower lakes just to fine tune releases and deliver water to the California and Central Arizona Project aquaducts.

But

 

[SecondAttempt]

DW was telling me they found a body in a barrel because of the low water levels.

Seems the saying "What happens in Las Vegas, stays in Las Vegas" only counts with high water levels

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/02/us/lake-mead-body-barrel-water-level-drought-climate/index.html

Shucks! You beat me to it. Just wait until the water level drops to the mob years...

 

[donheff]

I don't have any knowledge about solutions but I am going on a Grand Canyon raft trip in a month. Could be just in time if the "drain Lake Powel" recommendations come to pass.

 

[folivier]

Body in a barrel? Guess what the common theme in the next series and movies will be....

 

[EastWest Gal]

Jimmy Hoffa?

 

[zinger1457]

Back in the early days of Vegas when the mafia controlled the casinos being stuffed in a barrel is probably what happened to customers who were caught cheating.

 

[COcheesehead]

Drove past a church in western Colorado yesterday. Suns out, middle of the day. They had about a half acre of grass between the road and the parking lot. Something easily graveled over or xeriscaped. Sprinklers going full blast. There are hundreds of examples like this. It’s high desert. Grass is not needed here, but yet there it is. Most new homes around me are xeriscaped. Maybe there should be incentives to tear out grass on older properties.

 

[Sunset]

Drove past a church in western Colorado yesterday. Suns out, middle of the day. They had about a half acre of grass between the road and the parking lot. Something easily graveled over or xeriscaped. Sprinklers going full blast. There are hundreds of examples like this. It’s high desert. Grass is not needed here, but yet there it is. Most new homes around me are xeriscaped. Maybe there should be incentives to tear out grass on older properties.

Watch people put in sod, so they can get the $$$ incentives to replace it.

Instead of incentives, treat it like speeding tickets.

• just ban sprinkler operation
• Have a tiered water price, dramatically increasing the price as usage goes up the levels.

 

[JoeWras]

I'm always amazed at green lawns in the desert.

Here in the SE, droughts are rare. We only need infrequent lawn watering, depending on species, and most people are choosing better species.

Watering is allowed, but man they really "hose" you for it. Lawn watering means you get put into higher rate tiers, and they hurt. Are all these desert water users paying hundreds of dollars per month for water?

Myself and many of my neighbors do a lot of watering with rain barrel catchment. I understand that generally is not allowed in the Colorado River basin. (EDIT: looks like perhaps this has changed and allowed for homeowners in small use. Good to hear!)

 

[COcheesehead]

Watch people put in sod, so they can get the $$$ incentives to replace it.

Instead of incentives, treat it like speeding tickets.

• just ban sprinkler operation
• Have a tiered water price, dramatically increasing the price as usage goes up the levels.

We already have tiered water pricing. It’s still too cheap. It goes up $5-$10 a month if you are a heavy user.
As far as replacing sod, it’s expensive to put in so why would they do that just to break even?

 

[gayl]

You know how much it costs to get water from the Colorado River in western Colorado? About $20 a month for the average household.
Water the lawn, fill the pool, let the tap run…
If water is rare or soon to be rare, it needs to “cost” something.

100% [emoji106]

 

[SnowballCamper]

Which is worse, the loss of hydropower or significantly less food production from the loss of irrigation? A hydropower loss will be regional, but fallow fields will ripple across the country's grocery stores on top of existing inflation. Is another dustbowl situation coming? I sure hope not, but we'll find out this summer.