Couple feels they are entitled to a certain lifestyle

[OddGuy]

Looks like they thought they had plenty of money for necessities like tattoos and jewelry.

You observe and sarcastically judge the wife’s decorative purchases of about $1,000 in adornment. But tattoos are not items that recur in a monthly budget.

Had she not indulged in that $1,000 of self expression, they would still have deep systemic issues.

Did you watch or just pause on a frame? No worries, not all content reaches everyone the same way.

 

[LateToFIRE]

...tattoos are not items that recur in a monthly budget.

Maybe, maybe not, seems that with some of the Millennial and younger generation, every celebratory occasion is a reason for yet a new tattoo.

Had she not indulged in that $1,000 of self expression, they would still have deep systemic issues...

It all adds up.

 

[Andre1969]

You observe and sarcastically judge the wife’s decorative purchases of about $1,000 in adornment. But tattoos are not items that recur in a monthly budget.

Had she not indulged in that $1,000 of self expression, they would still have deep systemic issues.

Did you watch or just pause on a frame? No worries, not all content reaches everyone the same way.

Well, there's an old saying that you're supposed to look the part you're rehearsing for. If you're going to be begging for money, or trying to draw sympathy to your financial plight, it's not a good idea look like you have more money than the people you're trying to get money from. So basically, no flashy clothes/jewelry, perhaps cover up the expensive tattoos, don't whip out that $1500 iPhone, etc.

Right or wrong, people judge you on how you present yourself.

 

[LateToFIRE]

Well, there's an old saying that you're supposed to look the part you're rehearsing for. If you're going to be begging for money, or trying to draw sympathy to your financial plight, it's not a good idea look like you have more money than the people you're trying to get money from. So basically, no flashy clothes/jewelry, perhaps cover up the expensive tattoos, don't whip out that $1500 iPhone, etc.

Right or wrong, people judge you on how you present yourself.

Speaking of $1500 iPhones, do most people finance those? I pay cash and the sales clerks (Apple Store and Verizon Wireless) look at me like I'm a triple-headed zombie with five legs. They look panicked and ask a couple times, are you sure... is that your final answer. At first I thought it was some kinda sales technique, but after a few years of this, I'm thinking, no, its just genuine shock. And they look even more troubled when I decline the device insurance.

 

[Andre1969]

Speaking of $1500 iPhones, do most people finance those? I pay cash and the sales clerks (Apple Store and Verizon Wireless) look at me like I'm a triple-headed zombie with five legs. They look panicked and ask a couple times, are you sure... is that your final answer. At first I thought it was some kinda sales technique, but after a few years of this, I'm thinking, no, its just genuine shock. And they look even more troubled when I decline the device insurance.

I have a feeling most people do finance them. FWIW, I just bought a new iPhone, but mine's a 13. Still, with tax and an insurance plan and such, that sucker still came out to around $800. And, get this, a few weeks ago, I got an email from Apple, congratulating me for paying off my phone, and saying I was eligible for an upgrade!

I think some plans give you an option where you just pay so much per month on the phone for 2 or 3 years, but it's at zero percent interest. I did that with my previous phone, an iPhone 7S, that I bought back in early 2018. I was actually fine with the old 7S, but the battery was starting to go...and this was its second battery. Also, the charging port was messed up, and it was getting to the point that it practically took an act of Congress for the thing to recharge, or be recognized when I tried to plug it into the computer, etc.

My housemate bought a new iPhone a couple years ago. I forget the model, but it was a big one, and over $1,000. I think he paid it off over 2-3 years, as I know he wouldn't have been able to cough up that kind of money all at once, unless he put it on a credit card. And his phone before that, was also in excess of $1,000, and he did the payment plan where it was zero percent for 2 or 3 years.

Not to be judgy about it, bot both of my housemates have nicer phones than me. And tend to replace them much more often. Maybe that's one reason why they rent from me, and not the other way around!

Now that I think about it, remember back around the beginning of the year, where Fidelity was offering a deal that if you put $50 in a savings account with them, they'd give you an extra $150? I think they gave it to you like the next day, and all you had to do was keep it in that account for 90 days?

Well, I jumped on the deal. Also signed my uncle up for it. But my two housemates? "Oh, I don't know. That seems like an awful lot of work." I even told them that I'd GIVE them the 50 bucks, and help them set it up, but still it was "Oh, I don't know. That's too much work."

 

[LateToFIRE]

I have a feeling most people do finance them. FWIW, I just bought a new iPhone, but mine's a 13. Still, with tax and an insurance plan and such, that sucker still came out to around $800. And, get this, a few weeks ago, I got an email from Apple, congratulating me for paying off my phone, and saying I was eligible for an upgrade!

I think some plans give you an option where you just pay so much per month on the phone for 2 or 3 years, but it's at zero percent interest. I did that with my previous phone, an iPhone 7S, that I bought back in early 2018. I was actually fine with the old 7S, but the battery was starting to go...and this was its second battery. Also, the charging port was messed up, and it was getting to the point that it practically took an act of Congress for the thing to recharge, or be recognized when I tried to plug it into the computer, etc.

My housemate bought a new iPhone a couple years ago. I forget the model, but it was a big one, and over $1,000. I think he paid it off over 2-3 years, as I know he wouldn't have been able to cough up that kind of money all at once, unless he put it on a credit card. And his phone before that, was also in excess of $1,000, and he did the payment plan where it was zero percent for 2 or 3 years.

Not to be judgy about it, bot both of my housemates have nicer phones than me. And tend to replace them much more often. Maybe that's one reason why they rent from me, and not the other way around!

Now that I think about it, remember back around the beginning of the year, where Fidelity was offering a deal that if you put $50 in a savings account with them, they'd give you an extra $150? I think they gave it to you like the next day, and all you had to do was keep it in that account for 90 days?

Well, I jumped on the deal. Also signed my uncle up for it. But my two housemates? "Oh, I don't know. That seems like an awful lot of work." I even told them that I'd GIVE them the 50 bucks, and help them set it up, but still it was "Oh, I don't know. That's too much work."

Thanks for confirming, lol. I have nothing against installment plans, I just don't want more complexity in my life. Your housemates will learn to respect their money eventually (or not). Generous of you to try.

 

[Rianne]

This is about spending. We were in debt, bought a house at a 9% interest mortgage, and earned less than 35K/year when we were 30 yrs. old. And RE at 57 yrs. old.

 

[LateToFIRE]

This is about spending. We were in debt, bought a house at a 9% interest mortgage, and earned less than 35K/year when we were 30 yrs. old. And RE at 57 yrs. old.

Similar age 30 fact pattern to you. What you're going to hear Millennial and younger generation counter is that our generation had the wind at our back: education was cheaper, housing was cheaper, stock market was cheaper, relative to income, yada, yada, yada. I'm not tryin to pick on em, I'm rooting for em. Just seems that each generation thinks they have it worse than the last.

 

[Gumby]

Similar age 30 fact pattern to you. What you're going to hear Millennial and younger generation counter is that our generation had the wind at our back: education was cheaper, housing was cheaper, stock market was cheaper, relative to income, yada, yada, yada. I'm not tryin to pick on em, I'm rooting for em. Just seems that each generation thinks they have it worse than the last.

I suspect that if most 18 year-olds today could be transported back in time to 1977, see the enormous mountain of challenges that then stood between the 18 year-old me and financial success, and were asked if they wanted to trade places, they easily would choose their life today. Like you, I wish them all well. Some of them will succeed, some will not. Same as it ever was.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

This is about spending. We were in debt, bought a house at a 9% interest mortgage, and earned less than 35K/year when we were 30 yrs. old. And RE at 57 yrs. old.

Spending some time in Canada before coming to the USA, they do not have the interest deduction tax giveaway to bolster the RE market that we have here. Many more Americans would be renting if this was the case here. We still managed to buy a home at 10% + interest rates and not go bankrupt.

LBYM, should be a law. Then we would not have the problems we have now. Along with a Bankruptcy law that allows folks to not pay their debts, it is a recipe for failure. My friend is a Bankruptcy Lawyer and says a lot of the same folks file a second time.

 

[Andre1969]

Similar age 30 fact pattern to you. What you're going to hear Millennial and younger generation counter is that our generation had the wind at our back: education was cheaper, housing was cheaper, stock market was cheaper, relative to income, yada, yada, yada. I'm not tryin to pick on em, I'm rooting for em. Just seems that each generation thinks they have it worse than the last.

One time, on one of those facebook posts where the "No generation has had it as bad as me" people go to looking for an echo chamber, I once posted my story, about how in 1996, when I was 26, I was going through a bad divorce. I was about $30,000 in debt. Had to move in with my grandmother and rent out my condo, to help pay the debt down quicker. I also had a second job delivering pizzas, and would sometimes put in 80+ hours per week, between the full- and part-time jobs. At one point I bought a 1979 Newport from the junkyard for $250, because it was newer, lower mileage, and in better shape than the ~330,000 mile, beat-up '68 Dart I had been driving. I signed up with Consumer Credit Counseling Service, who made a deal with most of my credit cards to lower or in some cases, even waive the interest rate. They put me on a 5 year plan, but I worked my butt off, and drove several cars into the ground in the process, and managed to get it paid off in 2 1/2 years.

Well, rather than learning that no, their generation is not unique, and people from ALL generations have run into problems at various points in their lives, all I got from them was a few dislikes and some people whining along the lines of "So? What's your point?"

Although to be fair, most of the people on this particular page were whining about wanting a government handout for simply existing, so the idea of someone actually WORKING to get out of debt...they didn't want to hear that.

Nowadays, they like to focus on the Boomers and how they're responsible for everything and always had it so good. They tend to get irritated when I mentioned that most of the Boomers I've known, when they were that age, were getting drafted, and a good number of them going over to Vietnam, and getting chewed up and spit out, and then spit on by their own country, when they returned home. Yeah, the young'uns don't like to hear that, either.

 

[LateToFIRE]

One time, on one of those facebook posts where the "No generation has had it as bad as me" people go to looking for an echo chamber, I once posted my story, about how in 1996, when I was 26, I was going through a bad divorce. I was about $30,000 in debt. Had to move in with my grandmother and rent out my condo, to help pay the debt down quicker. I also had a second job delivering pizzas, and would sometimes put in 80+ hours per week, between the full- and part-time jobs. At one point I bought a 1979 Newport from the junkyard for $250, because it was newer, lower mileage, and in better shape than the ~330,000 mile, beat-up '68 Dart I had been driving. I signed up with Consumer Credit Counseling Service, who made a deal with most of my credit cards to lower or in some cases, even waive the interest rate. They put me on a 5 year plan, but I worked my butt off, and drove several cars into the ground in the process, and managed to get it paid off in 2 1/2 years.

Well, rather than learning that no, their generation is not unique, and people from ALL generations have run into problems at various points in their lives, all I got from them was a few dislikes and some people whining along the lines of "So? What's your point?"

Although to be fair, most of the people on this particular page were whining about wanting a government handout for simply existing, so the idea of someone actually WORKING to get out of debt...they didn't want to hear that.

Nowadays, they like to focus on the Boomers and how they're responsible for everything and always had it so good. They tend to get irritated when I mentioned that most of the Boomers I've known, when they were that age, were getting drafted, and a good number of them going over to Vietnam, and getting chewed up and spit out, and then spit on by their own country, when they returned home. Yeah, the young'uns don't like to hear that, either.

I can relate to many parts of your history, especially the part about digging yourself out of debt and working 80 hrs a week. I recall, in my mid 20's, where I literally did not sleep more than a 2-3 hours a night for couple years straight such was my hustle schedule. Painful yes, but I had a lot of setbacks to overcome, and not overcoming them was not an option in my book.

[course, now I have more debt than most people could imagine, but its good debt ;-]

 

[jazz4cash]

But tattoos are not items that recur in a monthly budget.

They are when you pile them along with other discretionary items month after month and use Afterpay, Klarna, etc. to pay over time. I’m pretty sure these are no interest if you pay on time but charge high rates to extend the repayment. So it’s cheap if you are very disciplined which these guys are not. I kept looking at $500/mo for clothes and thinking No Way. No judgement, just an observation.

 

[LateToFIRE]

They are when you pile them along with other discretionary items month after month and use Afterpay, Klarna, etc. to pay over time. I’m pretty sure these are no interest if you pay on time but charge high rates to extend the repayment. So it’s cheap if you are very disciplined which these guys are not. I kept looking at $500/mo for clothes and thinking No Way. No judgement, just an observation.

Was just having this conversation with DW the other day. Believe I said [in my most pontificatingly mansplainish voice] something like "Yah know dear, in retirement, I don't think we'll ever need to spend another dime on clothes. I mean right now we've got a couple homes chock full of closets of clothes - our problem next couple years will be consolidating and getting rid of most of it."

Well, she corrected me on that. Apparently, she is not yet of the age where fashion trends no longer matter - apparently doesn't want to look like an old fuddy duddy geezer just yet. Anyhow, it is now clear to me that our budget will need a line item for clothes, at least next couple years. Also clear that $500/month could easily be a pair of shoes or a dress at today's inflation-bloated prices.

 

[Time2]

Well, she corrected me on that. Apparently, she is not yet of the age where fashion trends no longer matter - apparently doesn't want to look like an old fuddy duddy geezer just yet. Anyhow, it is now clear to me that our budget will need a line item for clothes, at least next couple years. Also clear that $500/month could easily be a pair of shoes or a dress at today's inflation-bloated prices.

Drat!

 

[LateToFIRE]

Was just having this conversation with DW the other day. Believe I said [in my most pontificatingly mansplainish voice] something like "Yah know dear, in retirement, I don't think we'll ever need to spend another dime on clothes. I mean right now we've got a couple homes chock full of closets of clothes - our problem next couple years will be consolidating and getting rid of most of it."

Well, she corrected me on that. Apparently, she is not yet of the age where fashion trends no longer matter - apparently doesn't want to look like an old fuddy duddy geezer just yet. Anyhow, it is now clear to me that our budget will need a line item for clothes, at least next couple years. Also clear that $500/month could easily be a pair of shoes or a dress at today's inflation-bloated prices.

Drat!

And apparently I was also not grasping the need of a line item for health, beauty, and wellness, which could far surpass the other topic of discussion.

[Do not despair, I just assume in retirement we'll spend bout what we already spend which would incorporate all that, was just looking for some budgetary trimming]

 

[Montecfo]

Was just having this conversation with DW the other day. Believe I said [in my most pontificatingly mansplainish voice] something like "Yah know dear, in retirement, I don't think we'll ever need to spend another dime on clothes. I mean right now we've got a couple homes chock full of closets of clothes - our problem next couple years will be consolidating and getting rid of most of it."



Well, she corrected me on that. Apparently, she is not yet of the age where fashion trends no longer matter - apparently doesn't want to look like an old fuddy duddy geezer just yet. Anyhow, it is now clear to me that our budget will need a line item for clothes, at least next couple years. Also clear that $500/month could easily be a pair of shoes or a dress at today's inflation-bloated prices.

Hey count your blessings that she's not among the many of our seasoning who are content appearing to have given up on looking good.

Men and women.

 

[LateToFIRE]

Hey count your blessings that she's not among the many of our seasoning who are content appearing to have given up on looking good.

Men and women.

Oh, I'm not complain-in!

 

[Walt34]

I did not get the help from my parents as you state as normal in your previous posts. I am frugal because I didn't want to end up with 5 figure credit card debt like my parents did. They were caring parents but not helpful when it came to money short term or long term.

I had a very similar experience growing up and that contributed a lot to my aversion to credit card debt, and debt in general. My parents (mostly my father) accumulated a good deal of debt with a Montgomery Ward credit card, and they got the "wake up call" when they lost one of the cards and Wards refused to give them another until most of it was paid down. I don't think it was five figures (this would have been 1963) and I was about 13 at the time. But I still remember there was a big celebration when they finally paid it all off, three years later. Well, as we all know, to a teenager three years is "like FOREEEVER!" and it made a lasting impression on me: "Credit cards = bad!"

Now, this being the 21st century we do use credit cards extensively since it greatly simplifies a lot of things, but like most here we pay them all off in full every month.

 

[jazz4cash]

Also clear that $500/month could easily be a pair of shoes or a dress at today's inflation-bloated prices.

Every month? I think the expense was in the wife’s column of expenses. If you have the means you do what you want. This couple says they pay the rent late every month.

 

[Sunset]

..... I am frugal because I didn't want to end up with 5 figure credit card debt like my parents did. They were caring parents but not helpful when it came to money short term or long term. ......

You reminded me.
I learned a number of things because my parents were NOT GOOD at various things.
It taught me to learn about some things as I didn't want to repeat their mistakes.

 

[Time2]

One time, on one of those facebook posts where the "No generation has had it as bad as me" people go to looking for an echo chamber,

I have posted this but it is THE echo chamber of echo chambers,



https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/


It is constant complaining about, working for the man, hourly pay, student loans, hating the rich, saying they pay zero taxes, etc.
I got kicked out for counter arguments, although recently I'm sneaking back in under a new account, so far I've stayed low key in my responses, but expect at some time I will get reported for not towing their negative line. I did get in a line that the average tax rate paid by the 1% is 26%, so it is not zero!
Someone here pointed out they want what we want, Retire Early!
But most of us spent 25 to 40 years working to get to that point. I have turned the corner and do believe it may be harder now, but I'm absolutely sure it can and will done by many younger families, that did not come from wealth, which is another r/antiwork theme, that you have to come from wealth to make it.
And the world goes round!

 

[athena53]

Was just having this conversation with DW the other day. Believe I said [in my most pontificatingly mansplainish voice] something like "Yah know dear, in retirement, I don't think we'll ever need to spend another dime on clothes. I mean right now we've got a couple homes chock full of closets of clothes - our problem next couple years will be consolidating and getting rid of most of it."

Well, she corrected me on that. Apparently, she is not yet of the age where fashion trends no longer matter - apparently doesn't want to look like an old fuddy duddy geezer just yet. Anyhow, it is now clear to me that our budget will need a line item for clothes, at least next couple years. Also clear that $500/month could easily be a pair of shoes or a dress at today's inflation-bloated prices.

If you buy classic styles and stay the same size, you can still look very nice. At home it's T-shirts and sweaters with shorts or leggings, depending on the temperature. I still have a ton of clothes from my business wardrobe that are in perfectly good condition so when I go out of the house I look presentable. I've spent a total of $560 YTD and that includes 4 souvenir T-shirts (didn't need them but who can turn down a T-shirt with the Cyrillic alphabet from Bulgaria on it?) and a wrap and a sweater made from baby alpaca bought in Peru.

I got kicked out [of a Reddit forum] for counter arguments, although recently I'm sneaking back in under a new account, so far I've stayed low key in my responses, but expect at some time I will get reported for not toeing their negative line. I did get in a line that the average tax rate paid by the 1% is 26%, so it is not zero!

Yeah, I removed myself from one Board because if I disagreed with the group (tactfully and with facts) there were a few who piled on me with flames and anything I said to try to explain myself got twisted and used against me. I've considered joining under another name but figure at some point it would happen again. Life is too short.

 

[Time2]

Yeah, I removed myself from one Board because if I disagreed with the group (tactfully and with facts) there were a few who piled on me with flames and anything I said to try to explain myself got twisted and used against me. I've considered joining under another name but figure at some point it would happen again. Life is too short.

How did your quote of my post change, "towing their negative line" to "toeing their negative line"? OK, I looked it up, you corrected me .
It is toe the line. At least I got their/there right I know the difference, but if I don't proofread, I sometimes get it wrong.

An idiom is, "a group of words established by usage as having a meaning not deducible from those of the individual words" It sure seems like you tow a line, as in pull, rather than using the noun, toe, a line. https://proofed.com/writing-tips/idiom-tips-tow-the-line-or-toe-the-line/



Gallahger has funny short about words.

 

[Montecfo]

Yeah, I removed myself from one Board because if I disagreed with the group (tactfully and with facts) there were a few who piled on me with flames and anything I said to try to explain myself got twisted and used against me. I've considered joining under another name but figure at some point it would happen again. Life is too short.

You can get a permanent sitewide ban (from reddit ) for that but I hear you. There is a lot of extremism and absolutism in some of those forums. They do not tolerate facts that counter their narrative.