Covid Getting Closer to Home

[REWahoo]

I'm not suggesting that anyone should purposefully try to get infected, but if you're recently boosted, and you also think it's unlikely you'll be getting any more boosters, getting the virus sooner might not be such a bad thing.

I'm in that long "avoiding it if at all possible, especially while hospitals are stressed" line myself.

 

[Ronstar]

I'm in that long "avoiding it if at all possible, especially while hospitals are stressed" line myself.

Same here. And another reason to be a hold out - more is known about the virus and newer more effective treatments are being developed as time goes by.

I suspect someone getting Covid 2 years from now will get more effective treatment than someone who caught it today.

 

[Alan]

If one starts with the presumption that everyone will get this virus sooner or later, which, I think , pretty much everyone is admitting nowadays, there is a bit of calculus with booster timing.

The data suggests that protection from a booster drops pretty far (15%+ or so) after 10 weeks. I'm thinking it keeps dropping, but not sure of the rate. The point isn't the exact timing of protection, it's that you might feel more free to go to a gathering after the booster kicks-in, but before protection inevitably wanes.

I'm not suggesting that anyone should purposefully try to get infected, but if you're recently boosted, and you also think it's unlikely you'll be getting any more boosters, getting the virus sooner might not be such a bad thing.

We had our booster on Nov 9th but because our 2nd turned out to be Novavax as part of the trial we were on, our international Covid pass on our phone only shows 2 doses so we have booked our 4th dose for Feb 9th which will show as a booster on our Covid passport. Our daughter is scheduled to arrive the weekend of Feb 19th and all 4 of us are scheduled to fly to Barcelona a couple of weeks later. Spain are currently not requiring more than 2 vaccine doses for entry but we reckoned we may as well have a registered booster before we travel.

 

[Golden sunsets]

Sorry to hear those er.org members who have lost loved ones and happy to hear of those who have recovered.

We had escaped any illness and death in our immediate circle until last week. My Dear Aunt, (vaxed and boosted) tested positive for Covid last week the day after she was moved from Assisted Living to Memory Care at her very pricy Continuing Care facility. Initially she was asymptomatic, but a few days later began to experience trouble breathing. She passed away a couple of days later. She was 95. I can't help but believe that she was a sitting duck, with limited ability to be shielded from exposure to the illness.

We are so sad.

 

[Chuckanut]

I'm not suggesting that anyone should purposefully try to get infected, but if you're recently boosted, and you also think it's unlikely you'll be getting any more boosters, getting the virus sooner might not be such a bad thing.

Interesting comments in Peter Attia's latest podcast. Basically, some people think the best overall long term immunity is two mRNA shots followed by a Omicron infection. The variety of genetic differences displayed by Omicron supposedly prepares the immune system to hand a larger variety of corona virus variants in the future. IOW, If you have two shots and then get Omicron, Omicron is your booster. At least I think that's what the doctors said.

Here's another long Peter Attia discussion on masks, long covid, mandates, treatments and more.

https://peterattiamd.com/category/covid-19/

 

[Calico]

Sorry to hear those er.org members who have lost loved ones and happy to hear of those who have recovered.

We had escaped any illness and death in our immediate circle until last week. My Dear Aunt, tested positive for Covid last week the day after she was moved from Assisted Living to Memory Care at her very pricy Continuing Care facility. Initially she was asymptomatic, but a few days later began to experience trouble breathing. She passed away a couple of days later. She was 95. I can't help but believe that she was a sitting duck, with limited ability to be shielded from exposure to the illness.

We are so sad.

I am so sorry for your loss.

I worry constantly about my aunt and uncle (83 yo and 86 yo) but at least they have some control over their environment in the CCRC, as they are still in independent living.

 

[Aerides]

I'm in that long "avoiding it if at all possible, especially while hospitals are stressed" line myself.

Same. Also we know now that prior infections from some variants (ie Delta) don't help much against others (ie Omicron). So rushing out and kissing someone with Omicron might not be that helpful for the next version that starts to become dominant. Then you just end up having gotten sick for no "benefit" of extra immunity.

Still, either way I'm in the camp of not wanting to get anyone else sick. My gamble wouldn't just risk me alone. If all of humanity lived in little solo pods, that's one thing. But like most of us, I can easily rank some in my immediate circle as more vulnerable to a more severe outcome, even if they are well jabbed-up. People I see at least weekly, whom I would likely infect before I knew what happened.

 

[audreyh1]

Well, after 11 days in the ICU he passed away. The family was given the choice of sending him to a LTC facility or remove the vent. He was 47 years old and in relatively good health. He was unvaccinated and has left his wife and two young kids behind.

Very very sad!

 

[street]

Son called this evening and said he has an appointment for tomorrow to get tested. Woke up last evening with the symptoms. Not feeling too bad but he is thinking he may have it. He did stay home today from work. He hasn't got the booster yet but was scheduled to get it Thursday.

That may get pushed back now but I don't know for sure.

 

[explanade]

If one starts with the presumption that everyone will get this virus sooner or later, which, I think , pretty much everyone is admitting nowadays, there is a bit of calculus with booster timing.

The data suggests that protection from a booster drops pretty far (15%+ or so) after 10 weeks. I'm thinking it keeps dropping, but not sure of the rate. The point isn't the exact timing of protection, it's that you might feel more free to go to a gathering after the booster kicks-in, but before protection inevitably wanes.

I'm not suggesting that anyone should purposefully try to get infected, but if you're recently boosted, and you also think it's unlikely you'll be getting any more boosters, getting the virus sooner might not be such a bad thing.

Why, would getting the virus immunize you forever against getting infected again?

Studies may show that getting a mild infection of Omicron will boost your immunity. But if the effects of booster wears off, why would the effects of an infection not wear off?

 

[Chuckanut]

Why, would getting the virus immunize you forever against getting infected again?

Studies may show that getting a mild infection of Omicron will boost your immunity. But if the effects of booster wears off, why would the effects of an infection not wear off?

Only the antibodies wear off. The B and T cells remain and they are now much more efficient in fighting off Covid. That's why people can get reinfected but most likely avoid serious illness, hospitalization and death. That is my understanding.

Realistically, getting a booster every 10 weeks to reinforce anti-bodies is not sustainable.

 

[EastWest Gal]

There hasn't been much evidence that waning antibodies = waning risk of severe Covid. Yes, antibody levels go down, but memory B cells and T cells may last a lifetime-there is evidence of that with a number of diseases, such as measles. Centenarians who had the Spanish flu in 1918 apparently had evidence of B and T cell specific immunity to that strain 90 years later. We probably won't ever have long lasting immunity that prevents coronavirus infection, but we will likely have have robust immunity against serious illness, which is what counts. The only viruses that have been eradicated are smallpox and rinderpest, a cattle disease. We cannot eradicate Covid-19, since it can occur in multiple animals, from hamsters to deer to snow leopards.

The protective effect (against infection) of boosters and both disease wear off, but for the vast majority, second infections are milder. Our innate immunity (pre vaccine, first exposure) is not specific and the immune system may over-react, which leads to severe Covid. However, our specific immunity kicks in a lot faster and kicks down Covid much more effectively without the cytokine storm that is associated with severe disease. A lot of Covid infections currently are without symptoms or with minimal symptoms in the vaccinated.

 

[explanade]

Only the antibodies wear off. The B and T cells remain and they are now much more efficient in fighting off Covid. That's why people can get reinfected but most likely avoid serious illness, hospitalization and death. That is my understanding.

Realistically, getting a booster every 10 weeks to reinforce anti-bodies is not sustainable.

Do they get more efficient or do you get more of them with the ability to recognize the specific spike mutations on newer variants?

Yes we can't keep boosting, every booster, more and more people will stop getting shots. Plus it's huge undertaking trying to roll out boosters for whole populations.

But the alternative is to endure more infections every few months?


Already there is a BA.2 variant which may be outcompeting BA.1 (Omicron).

 

[captain3d]

CDC report shows little benefit (against hospitalization) of being vaccinated after natural infection.

Meaning either is good protection and doubling up not a big difference.

 

[Turbo29]

CDC report shows little benefit (against hospitalization) of being vaccinated after natural infection.

Meaning either is good protection and doubling up not a big difference.

Here's a graph from CDC showing that:


COVID-19 Cases and Hospitalizations by COVID-19 Vaccination Status and Previous COVID-19 Diagnosis — California and New York, May–November 2021

 

[pacergal]

Ack, Niece just woke up with sinus and lung congestion, positive home test.
She is vaccinated, but her son age 7 is not (long story involving her ex).
Problem is her fiancé just had surgery for removal of bowel cancer after chemo and radiation. He is scheduled to come home tomorrow--well now he will need to go to his moms house. My Sister and BIL were caring for their grandson yesterday ! And BIL recently diagnosed with liver cancer, scheduled to see the oncologist Friday..so they will need to get tested.. UGH as if there wasn't enough stress and worry for the family.

This virus is so nasty.

 

[audreyh1]

I just can't imagine going through serious non-covid medical care at this time!

 

[Act2]

Oh my - a close friend’s healthy daughter, late 20’s, has Covid again. Having a rough time with it, again. Vaxxed and boosted but taking basically no other precautions.

 

[Koolau]

I just can't imagine going through serious non-covid medical care at this time!

Right. DW and I both have "issues" that require us to visit clinics (or hospital) about once a month. It's getting scary just walking into these places. I will say, the "good news" is that most docs and testing locations are now limiting their appointments in such a way that waiting times are minutes instead of hours. YMMV

 

[Ronstar]

I just can't imagine going through serious non-covid medical care at this time!

Me either. I had a tick that DW could not totally remove, leaving the head embedded in my back. I didn't want to go to quick care to get it removed, but I did. The waiting room looked like a covid breeding ground - people sitting close together. Everyone was masked, but I wasn't comfortable.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Me either. I had a tick that DW could not totally remove, leaving the head embedded in my back. I didn't want to go to quick care to get it removed, but I did. The waiting room looked like a covid breeding ground - people sitting close together. Everyone was masked, but I wasn't comfortable.

Thankfully, the urgent care my DW went to last week is making the COVID-possible patients stay in their car. They are brought through the back and into a separate area. DW was the only one in the actual waiting room (possible ear infection).

 

[Chuckanut]

Me either. I had a tick that DW could not totally remove, leaving the head embedded in my back. I didn't want to go to quick care to get it removed, but I did. The waiting room looked like a covid breeding ground - people sitting close together. Everyone was masked, but I wasn't comfortable.

Did they at least have a few of those high quality air purifiers running? I would hope so.

We really need to funnel Covid Only patients to separate sites where they don't mix with the rest of the population who have other health concerns.

 

[disneysteve]

Thankfully, the urgent care my DW went to last week is making the COVID-possible patients stay in their car. They are brought through the back and into a separate area. DW was the only one in the actual waiting room (possible ear infection).

Same here. Our urgent care has you call in from the car, they register you by phone, and we call you in when it's your turn. You go straight into the exam room and then straight out.


The only patients in the waiting room are those with no potential COVID symptoms like injuries. Someone with a possible ear infection would remain in their car.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Same here. Our urgent care has you call in from the car, they register you by phone, and we call you in when it's your turn. You go straight into the exam room and then straight out.


The only patients in the waiting room are those with no potential COVID symptoms like injuries. Someone with a possible ear infection would remain in their car.

I was somewhat surprised she got to go in. She also mentioned that had some very big purifiers of sorts that would go off every minute or so. The doc said that they might see 3 or 4 patients a day that aren't there for COVID related illness. That makes me think that a lot of people aren't going in for other things.

 

[audreyh1]

Thankfully, the urgent care my DW went to last week is making the COVID-possible patients stay in their car. They are brought through the back and into a separate area. DW was the only one in the actual waiting room (possible ear infection).

Well that is excellent handling of the situation!