Electric Vehicles - Models Discussion

With digital electronics, there could be software rot over time.

But more likely, a software update slows things down or breaks things.

Or there are hacks.
I’ve never had that experience with any of the mobile devices we’ve owned over the past 15 years, and they are updated OTA all the time. While there are some glitches/setbacks with updates, I don’t remember a Tesla owner who didn’t appreciate the updates when all is said and done. Many say “it’s a better car than when I bought it” due to software improvements.

And where flaws are hard wired in on many other cars and can’t be fixed, some Tesla issues can be corrected with software relatively easily. Many of the recalls Tesla has been issued were easily corrected with an OTA software update - the owner didn’t have to do anything or go to a SC, that’s unheard of with most other cars even today.

While software rot is indeed a real phenomenon, it’s not inevitable with all software applications. Well written and managed software doesn’t always suffer rot…
 
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I know that not everyone is a fan but Scotty Kilmer has a new video on the Bolt. He's not a huge fan of EVs but I think his comments are fair

I don't know what it is, but something about his videos make me yearn to listen to someone endlessly scratching their nails on a chalk board instead.
 
I saw what looked to me a mini Cooper plugged in at the grocery. Do they make an EV?
 
I saw what looked to me a mini Cooper plugged in at the grocery. Do they make an EV?

Yes, I own one:)
It is the MINI Cooper SE. Up until the 2023 model year it is the battery/motor from the BMW i3.

I expect to be trading it in for a Tesla Model 3, or possibly an Ioniq 6. Hyundai is making it a very difficult choice :)
 
Question: do all EV brands and models have automatic regenerative braking? Does something always happen when you lift off the accelerator?

The question occurred to me this morning as I watched an Idiotsincar video of an EV spinning out in the recent California rains. The driver said that the spin happened when they lifted the throttle, and regen kicked in. For this same reason, I also always turn off cruise control in any kind of rain. Back in the days of having a manual, I was quick to hit the clutch to delink the drivetrain in bad weather.

It is an interesting video. Reference: https://www.reddit.com/r/IdiotsInCars/comments/15xogyp/oc_last_night_i_was_the_idiot_do_not/

The idiot redditors are arguing as to what can be configured for regen and what can't. I trust answers here better. Some say Telsas can't be configured anymore. Others say it can. Others say some brands have configurable grades of regeneration from nothing to aggressive.
 
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Question: do all EV brands and models have automatic regenerative braking? Does something always happen when you lift off the accelerator?

The question occurred to me this morning as I watched an Idiotsincar video of an EV spinning out in the recent California rains. The driver said that the spin happened when they lifted the throttle, and regen kicked in. For this same reason, I also always turn off cruise control in any kind of rain. Back in the days of having a manual, I was quick to hit the clutch to delink the drivetrain in bad weather.

It is an interesting video. Reference: https://www.reddit.com/r/IdiotsInCars/comments/15xogyp/oc_last_night_i_was_the_idiot_do_not/

The idiot redditors are arguing as to what can be configured for regen and what can't. I trust answers here better. Some say Telsas can't be configured anymore. Others say it can. Others say some brands have configurable grades of regeneration from nothing to aggressive.
It's safe to assume that any production EV would have regen braking. Whether it is applied by just letting of the accel pedal would be model specific, and setting specific (so the EV owners can chime in on that), but any (all?) Tesla's with 'one pedal driving' would (gently) apply regen-braking while lifting the accel pedal.

For reference, this applies to ICE as well. There is some braking effect when you let up on the gas pedal. Probably not enough to be a problem in rain, but in ice or slick snow, definitely. I know I've instinctively, very carefully kept the car going at near the same throttle when I felt the car starting to slide on ice/snow. A sudden release of the gas could put you in a spin.

That said, I thought Teslas ( was that a Tesla in the video?) and most EVs had pretty advanced traction control (easier, with motor control), so I would think a spin-out would be avoided?


-ERD50
 
Implementation of regen is basically present on all BEVs, PHEVs & Hybrids.
Some manufacturers put it on the brake pedal, most put it on the accelerator, a few do both.

A well implemented regen will not allow you to ‘spin out’. However, that depends upon the manufacturer.
For what it is worth, I drive on wet, and icy roads and have never had the wheels slip due to regen, and my regen is always as high as it can go.
I’ve driven thee VOLT, LEAF, MINI & various Teslas.

As for configuration options, there used to be options in Teslas. I frankly don’t know for sure if there still are, because I haven’t wanted to lessen the regen in many years.
 
Question: do all EV brands and models have automatic regenerative braking? Does something always happen when you lift off the accelerator?

The question occurred to me this morning as I watched an Idiotsincar video of an EV spinning out in the recent California rains. The driver said that the spin happened when they lifted the throttle, and regen kicked in. For this same reason, I also always turn off cruise control in any kind of rain. Back in the days of having a manual, I was quick to hit the clutch to delink the drivetrain in bad weather.

It is an interesting video. Reference: https://www.reddit.com/r/IdiotsInCars/comments/15xogyp/oc_last_night_i_was_the_idiot_do_not/

The idiot redditors are arguing as to what can be configured for regen and what can't. I trust answers here better. Some say Telsas can't be configured anymore. Others say it can. Others say some brands have configurable grades of regeneration from nothing to aggressive.
I don’t know about other brands, but Tesla offer three regen settings including none, owner selected.

I was a little surprised at the video because all cars have traction control these days, so I read through it. I turn off cruise control too in rain, but it’s not supposed to be necessary with traction control.

The owner confesses his tread depth was 3-3.5/32” of an inch. That’s asking for it on wet roads while it’s raining! Traction control is a wonderful feature, but it can’t create traction if the tires are that worn. Tread depth is all about wet weather safety.

He also said “they said I was around the 80th person of the night in a similar situation.” So I wonder if the road conditions were bad there? So clearly not unique to EVs or regen…

As usual, a little more to the story.
 
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I'm not implying it is specific to EVs. Someone mentioned ICE car fuel cutoff which causes engine braking. Yeah, that can be a problem. I am not an EV basher.

It was California. They haven't seen rain in ages. The road had oil film. People in CA seem to drive in rain like other do in snow, i.e. incompetently. The fact that this guy was one of them is not my point.

I want control as much control as I can get, because I know that hitting the brakes -- regen or not -- can cause control issues regardless of all the fancy stability control. Others can deny. I've seen enough Idiotincar videos of tall SUVs which have stability control still spin and roll over. Supposedly stability control would solve that issue. It didn't.

So I'm just asking the question as I continue to ponder EVs. One of the idiot redditors said "Telsas after 2019 cannot be configured for regen". True or false?
 
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I like the way our Bolt EUV gives you options. You can select D for drive and it drives like a regular car or select the large button for one pedal driving with regenerative braking. It also has a paddle on the left side of the steering wheel for additional regenerative braking if needed. You can use the paddle in either mode. Then of course you have the brake pedal on the floor when needed.
IMG20230822071048.jpg
 
I'm not implying it is specific to EVs. Someone mentioned ICE car fuel cutoff which causes engine braking. Yeah, that can be a problem. I am not an EV basher.

It was California. They haven't seen rain in ages. The road had oil film. People in CA seem to drive in rain like other do in snow, i.e. incompetently. The fact that this guy was one of them is not my point.

I want control as much control as I can get, because I know that hitting the brakes -- regen or not -- can cause control issues regardless of all the fancy stability control. Others can deny. I've seen enough Idiotincar videos of tall SUVs which have stability control still spin and roll over. Supposedly stability control would solve that issue. It didn't.

So I'm just asking the question as I continue to ponder EVs. One of the idiot redditors said "Telsas after 2019 cannot be configured for regen". True or false?
I wasn't trying to paint you as an EV basher. But regen was not the issue in the reddit post. Traction control governs accelerating and braking in all road conditions - but again it can't create traction. Someone could read your post #383 and (falsely) conclude regen caused the spin/accident...so I looked further.

Whoever said Teslas cannot be configured for regen is mostly wrong. On all Model 3 and Y: Hold is the "one pedal driving" setting, max regen. IIRC Roll is no regen, or close to it and Creep is the middle ground - I may have that backwards.

On the (much lower volume) Model S and X, evidently Standard and Low are the only Stopping Modes now. I don't know if Standard mode regen enables one pedal driving on Model S or X...or it's a lesser mode than MY Hold. Audrey will know.
 

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I pick up my new 2023 Chevrolet Bolt EUV premium Edition tonight. Paid MSRP plus sales tax and $125.00 doc fee. I also got a $500 credit for being a military veteran. :cool:

Gosh, after being a Gearhead all my life, I feel like I am moving over to the Dark Side...:blush:
 
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I pick up my new 2023 Chevrolet Bolt EUV premium Edition tonight. Paid MSRP plus sales tax and $125.00 doc fee. I also got a $500 credit for being a military veteran. :cool:

One more savings: you avoided $400 in additional registration fees by purchasing it prior to the new state law going into effect on Sept 1. Excellent strategic planning! :)
 
One more savings: you avoided $400 in additional registration fees by purchasing it prior to the new state law going into effect on Sept 1. Excellent strategic planning! :)

Thanks, I forgot to mention that.

My daughter is already licking her chops on borrowing it. :D Then I can drive her hot Mustang.
 
I pick up my new 2023 Chevrolet Bolt EUV premium Edition tonight. Paid MSRP plus sales tax and $125.00 doc fee. I also got a $500 credit for being a military veteran. :cool:

Gosh, after being a Gearhead all my life, I feel like I am moving over to the Dark Side...:blush:

Congrats! I love mine, although mine is "just" the LT version (fewer features). I'm guessing you'll enjoy yours too! :)
 
Congrats! I love mine, although mine is "just" the LT version (fewer features). I'm guessing you'll enjoy yours too! :)

I hope so and buying this late in the season is a problem if you want different options. There just aren't many available and orders for new ones are cut off. I was lucky to find this one.
 
I wasn't trying to paint you as an EV basher. But regen was not the issue in the reddit post. Traction control governs accelerating and braking in all road conditions - but again it can't create traction. Someone could read your post #383 and (falsely) conclude regen caused the spin/accident...so I looked further.

Whoever said Teslas cannot be configured for regen is mostly wrong. On all Model 3 and Y: Hold is the "one pedal driving" setting, max regen. IIRC Roll is no regen, or close to it and Creep is the middle ground - I may have that backwards.

On the (much lower volume) Model S and X, evidently Standard and Low are the only Stopping Modes now. I don't know if Standard mode regen enables one pedal driving on Model S or X...or it's a lesser mode than MY Hold. Audrey will know.

I have never driven the OG Roadster, so my knowledge only goes back to 2012 with Model S.

With the Model S in 2012, Tesla started with only one driving mode (later named "Roll") and two regenerative modes ("Standard" and "Low").

I feel "Roll" mode is simply the best and most natural driving mode for an EV and it matches very well with a perfectly-shifted-always-in-correct-gear manual transmission vehicle. When stationary, the vehicle will feel like it's in neutral and will roll freely if on an incline. When you depress the accelerator, the motor will apply torque and you will accelerate. At speed, when you lift-off the accelerator, the motor will apply reverse-torque (regen) proportional to how much you lift. This feels like closed-throttle engine-breaking with perfectly-rev-matched downshifts as the vehicle's speed reduce. The amount of regen possible is proportional to motor speed, so as it approaches zero RPM, the regen fades to zero, which brings you back to "neutral" as you come to a stop. This driving mode is a really idyllic experience for someone coming from a manual-transmission performance ICE car.

But, many people are so used to the unfortunate side-effect of the fluid-coupling torque converters in the stupid slush-boxes (automatic transmission) coupled with an ICE that can't stay still and must run at "idle" RPMs that they think/feel that "idle creep" is an actual feature! Unfortunately, in 2012, Tesla gave in and introduced (software_update_1.13.16_0.pdf) "Creep":

By default, Model S does not slowly move forward when you release the brake pedal like cars equipped with automatic transmissions.

With an electric motor there’s no need for this, but some early customers miss it. Using software updates, we can upgrade every Model S with a ‘creep’ option which customers can enable using the 17 inch touchscreen.”​

Driving Mode = "Creep" coupled with Regen = "Low" really emulated a slushbox.

Up to this point, motor torque (acceleration & regen) was only ever controlled with accelerator pedal while the brake pedal only controlled the friction (hydraulic) brakes. And up to this point, the only way to hold the vehicle stationary was to hold the brake pedal (or use the "hill hold" feature, which required depressing the brake pedal to initiate it)

Then, in ~2019, they Tesla introduced the term "stopping mode" and gave you three options: "Creep" "Roll" and "Stop". The new "Stop" mode is basically one-pedal driving like many other EVs. The car will blend in friction brakes as regen tapers off, bringing the vehicle to a stop (and holding it). This is the first time friction brakes can be "controlled" by the accelerator position.

In 2020, Tesla removed the "Low" regen mode.

In 2021, the refreshed Model S and Model X were introduced with no driving mode options and no regen options. It is permanently locked into "Stop" mode and "Standard" regen (One-pedal driving mode).

My 2018 Model 3 still has three driving modes and regen settings, but I think my dad's new Model Y doesn't (I didn't take notice of this).
 
OK, you've had it for a day - first impressions?

Wow!

Interesting mode of transportation. It's a computer with wheels. Very cool, even saying this as a Gearhead.

My old Corvette club buds back East would hate me for getting this. Who knows?...maybe they have gone over to the Dark Side too.:LOL:

I've put 22 miles on it and it's all new to me, but I am figuring it out. I have paired my phone, opened a My Chevrolet account to manage the car, had a chat with the OnStar lady (I'm not convinced I need this stuff though).

I'm working my way back through all the energy type display icons and various screens. I like that with the press of a button, I can drop out of regen mode and it drives like a normal car.

The Bose system is quite nice, even with my poor hearing and a lot of loss in one ear. And the panoramic roof is very nice.

My daughter just took it for a ride and was impressed. Much different than her 2014 Mustang Premium Edition.

I'm surprised at how much room is in this small SUV. And the interior is stunning.

Window tint is on the agenda....

Where's the spare tire? :facepalm:
 
With the Model S in 2012, Tesla started with only one driving mode (later named "Roll") and two regenerative modes ("Standard" and "Low").

<LONG POST>

Thank you. This was very informative. Good stuff.
 
Wow!

Interesting mode of transportation. It's a computer with wheels. Very cool, even saying this as a Gearhead.

My old Corvette club buds back East would hate me for getting this. Who knows?...maybe they have gone over to the Dark Side too.:LOL:

I've put 22 miles on it and it's all new to me, but I am figuring it out. I have paired my phone, opened a My Chevrolet account to manage the car, had a chat with the OnStar lady (I'm not convinced I need this stuff though).

I'm working my way back through all the energy type display icons and various screens. I like that with the press of a button, I can drop out of regen mode and it drives like a normal car.

The Bose system is quite nice, even with my poor hearing and a lot of loss in one ear. And the panoramic roof is very nice.

My daughter just took it for a ride and was impressed. Much different than her 2014 Mustang Premium Edition.

I'm surprised at how much room is in this small SUV. And the interior is stunning.

Window tint is on the agenda....

Where's the spare tire? :facepalm:

Ours is a very technical car, although quite easy to drive. It’s just so smart. We have really enjoyed that aspect, learning all sorts of new things.
 
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