Electric Vehicles - Models Discussion

[stephenson]

Had to try out our new Subaru Ascent a couple of years ago ... Texas on a trip, did a pass on a very nice road (not interstate) - empty - came back, easy 105 ... was still accelerating like crazy! That used to be Land Flap touchdown speed ... so, not needed!

Now, when a young (college) and stupid man - OK, most woman would think .... oh never mind ... we could morph this into the "dumbest things ..." the three cylinder, water-cooled Suzuki, interstate, alcohol potentially involved, no shoes, shorts, HELMET (required) ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_GT750

 

[folivier]

In my high school days my dad had a Fiat 124 Spider convertible. Had lots of fun in that. The girls loved it!
Top speed was 105mph and took a while to get there. But if I was running with a friend with a tricked out V8 there were a few curves that I could pass at 105 on the outside. Once I got around them there was no way they could catch me! That Fiat hugged the road.
Stupid fun, but I survived. I've hit over 90 in the Buick passing another car a few times.

 

[Chuckanut]

My dad purchased a Fiat 850 Spider for my sister. It was a great car, when it was running. But, that was not often. He finally sold it after spending far too many weekends trying to get it fixed. Since I had to help him, I was not sorry to see the car leave the family stable.

Back to EV’s, a neighbor recently took home a new Lucid Air. It reminds me of the 850. He has had it in numerous times to fix assembly defects and things that have gone wrong. One repair to correct an obnoxious wind noise took over a week. He is still very happy with the car. I hope it works out for him.

 

[stephenson]

Not advertising for VW, but went down rabbit hole this morning and ended up at this Car and Driver mini review of the 2024 VW id4 ... range still too short for me, but shows 2700 pound tow rating ... small boat, small camper all possible.

https://www.caranddriver.com/volkswagen/id4

 

[Fermion]

It would be nigh impossible but I wish there was a EPA rating for towing at whatever capacity a vehicle is advertised. The aerodynamics of the towed item would be one reason it is impossible, but still.

If a car has 291 mile EPA estimated range when not towing, and a 90 mile range when towing the max load, it would make decisions easier (if that range was within acceptable parameters for one's application).

 

[GaryInCO]

My dad purchased a Fiat 850 Spider for my sister. It was a great car, when it was running. But, that was not often.

I had an 850! First car after my 1966 Impala hit 186,000 and I had to replace it. I was about 25. Like you said, it was not the most reliable car. I remember backing out of my driveway, dropping it into 1st, and bzzzzt but no "go." Whaa? Discovered there was a pair of knurled half-axles in the back, and one of them had stripped. I was very proud of myself that I diagnosed it and fixed it myself.

I did plenty of "spirited" driving. Started driving Saabs in 1986, and those all had beefy turbos. Then in 1990 I married a woman who drove a 1972 Porsche 911T. Her previous boyfriend had gotten her hooked on racing. I raced with her several times before we quit our jobs and didn't have the budget any more. The most exciting event was when I learned that "brake fluid can boil." And foam is not incompressible like brake fluid is supposed to be. It was a hot summer day, both of us were driving the 911, and it never got a chance to cool off. I was doing a timed run (as fast as I could go) and went screaming down the straightaway at over 100mph. At the end there was a hairpin curve. I hit the brakes to downshift and ... nothing. Foam doesn't work in brakes. I ran off the end of the hairpin and went airborne. Fortunately I landed shiny side up...

 

[Midpack]

It would be nigh impossible but I wish there was a EPA rating for towing at whatever capacity a vehicle is advertised. The aerodynamics of the towed item would be one reason it is impossible, but still.

If a car has 291 mile EPA estimated range when not towing, and a 90 mile range when towing the max load, it would make decisions easier (if that range was within acceptable parameters for one's application).

You can usually find that on YouTube for most vehicles that are commonly used for towing. Not only aerodynamics, add grade, and cold is a factor as well for all vehicles, more so for EVs.

 

[Midpack]

TMI for most if not all, but I was waiting on TurboTax to finalize Form 8911 for my home charging installation tax credit. Dug further into it, only to find that my GEIOD number is in an area that is not eligible, even though there are other nearby neighborhoods that are eligible. I am guessing our newish neighboorhood just hasn't been added to the census doc yet.

The process for finding your GEIOD number and the census docs that list all the eligible locations is a total nightmare. So I lost a $220 tax credit, after waiting several weeks, I was otherwise ready to file a while ago. Not worth fighting IMO.

I am NOT advising anyone what to do, but this is pretty good quick and easy way to find out if you're eligible without knowing your GEIOD.

https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/3f67d5e82dc64d1589714d5499196d4f/page/Page/

 

[REWahoo]

The process for finding your GEIOD number and the census docs that list all the eligible locations is a total nightmare. So I lost a $220 tax credit, after waiting several weeks, I was otherwise ready to file a while ago. Not worth fighting IMO.

Agreed, what a PITA. I just spent way too much of what little time I have left (I'm 77) finding my GEOID Census Tract Number.

Even thought I entered all the required information into TT after locating my number and confirmed I am located in a qualified tract, TT still says they are making updates to 8911 and to check back on 2/29 to ensure I am qualified for this credit.

As you point out, anyone considering this credit should save themselves some serious possible grief by using the link you provided to check location eligibility before attempting to find their GEOID number.

 

[joesxm3]

Midpack

Thanks for mentioning the GEIOD.

I should have just gone into Turbo tax, but I spent half an hour trying to find it using Google.

Fortunately once I found the instructions in the Turbo Tax help I was able to find it and the PDF of eligible numbers. I tried to do an Acrobat search for my number but did not find it. Luckily I scrolled down to my county and manually verified that I am in the list.

P.S.

I did a TT update today and was able to enter the info for the charger credit without getting any prompt about the form not being ready. That is unless the prompt only comes when you try to finish your return. Previous prompts seemed to come right on the related screen though.


P.P.S.

OK. I looked at the forms view and found a red item and clicked on it and got the 2/29 message.

 

[REWahoo]

Midpack

P.S.

I did a TT update today and was able to enter the info for the charger credit without getting any prompt about the form not being ready. That is unless the prompt only comes when you try to finish your return. Previous prompts seemed to come right on the related screen though.

TT let me enter all my info, then hit me with the "not yet, try back on 2/29" message as I was going through the final checks before filing.

 

[RetMD21]

Ford is apparently now discounting the Mach E up to $8100. That should help with the slow sales problem

 

[Fermion]

Ford is apparently now discounting the Mach E up to $8100. That should help with the slow sales problem

It doesn't qualify for the $7500 credit though.

 

[audreyh1]

OK thanks guys. DH hasn’t gotten started on the taxes yet although he has all the info including the home charger credit info details.

 

[Christine]

Are retirees or even early retirees buying high performance cars and flooring it like teen hot rodders used to?

Well I have visited the German Autobahn with my Tesla Model X. It can go pretty fast!

 

[anothercog]

With used EV prices crashing to earth, I am now giving serious consideration to picking one up this year. My budget is $25k-$35k and I think I've narrowed my choices down to Tesla Model Y, Kia EV6 Wind and Audi e-Tron. I do not qualify for any tax subsidies.

We generally only take about 3-4 road trips a year that would exceed the range of these vehicles and even then, it would be a 300-500 one way trip so we would likely only need to stop to re-charge one (maybe twice with the e-Tron which only has a 200 mile range). If stopping to charge is too much of a concern, we could take an ICE car for the trip.

Other than a few road trips, we would be using level 2 charger at home and at work. It would give me a reason to actually go into the office if I can charge for free.

I would probably be looking at 2019 Audi e-Tron with about 50k miles, a 2023 EV6 with about 15k miles or a 2022 Model Y long range with 40k miles. I would expect we would only put on an additional 8k miles/year.

The pros of the e-Tron is that it is AWD and the most luxurious but the cons are the range, CCS charging and high costs of repair if something goes wrong.

Pros of Tesla seem to be frequent software updates and excellent charging network. Cons are higher price that the other two and perhaps questionable build quality.

Pros of Kia is the technology, exterior design, quick DC charging. Cons are awkward interior user interface, CCS charging, and RWD.

Anyone own one of these and have any thoughts?

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

The pros of the e-Tron is that it is AWD and the most luxurious but the cons are the range, CCS charging and high costs of repair if something goes wrong.

Pros of Tesla seem to be frequent software updates and excellent charging network. Cons are higher price that the other two and perhaps questionable build quality.

Pros of Kia is the technology, exterior design, quick DC charging. Cons are awkward interior user interface, CCS charging, and RWD.

Anyone own one of these and have any thoughts?

I love my (2023) Kia EV6 AWD Wind, especially the interface. I recommend looking for a Wind with the Wind Tech Package. I personally like the old school steering wheel buttons, switches, and stalks that I'm used to. I say the interface is great because, as someone who works in UX/UI, they've done a good job of showing you what is important. For example, IMO the biggest drawback to stalks are that it's often hard to see what they're set to. Kia fixed that by showing a display on the main console whenever you change a setting on your light or wiper stalks (see image). It also charges as fast as any car out there, it can go from 10-80% in 16 minutes...if you can find a fast enough charger. In sport mode, it'll squash you into your seat! Even in Eco mode I have no trouble passing people quickly if I feel the need to.

But then, this is the first car I've had with Android Auto or 360 degree view.

Cons, the built-in voice recognition sucks. I only use Google Assistant, not the car's built in voice commands. There were recalls on the ICCU (charging unit), that should be resolved by now, but make sure you check for it, especially if you are getting one used.

LMK if you have any questions.

 

[explanade]

The Kia and Hyundai EVs are among the best platforms used so far with the 800 volt system which allows for fast charging.

But the EV6 and Ioniq 5 ride so low, they're more like the old station wagons than SUVs.

Kia plans to manufacture the EV5, which has a more conventional SUV body and appears to ride higher. But no firm plans to sell that in the US, though they would sell it in Canada and Mexico.

 

[RetMD21]

The Kia and Hyundai EVs are among the best platforms used so far with the 800 volt system which allows for fast charging.

Is it true that <5% of DC fast chargers are 800 V?

 

[audreyh1]

Is it true that <5% of DC fast chargers are 800 V?

I believe so. Way less I would guess.

 

[Midpack]

The Kia and Hyundai EVs are among the best platforms used so far with the 800 volt system which allows for fast charging.

While 800V charging could be a time saver on road trips, you might want to use them sparingly if you’re interested in battery longevity.

For times when a quick charge is needed, fast chargers are the go-to option. Nonetheless, these pricey but convenient chargers tend to degrade lithium-ion batteries at a quicker rate than lesser charging options. If you're hoping to get the most service life from your EVs battery pack, then avoid unnecessary fast charging. That said, the battery in your EV is more than capable of handling fast charges in times of need without you having to worry about its effects on the pack's internal bits

BMS have gotten better and better at protecting batteries when fast charging, in part by throttling back the rate of charge, so an 800V charger won’t be anywhere near twice as fast as 400V charger. If the battery is very low, the charge rate starts out very fast but it tapers off continuously as it continues. As an example, when I plug into a Tesla 250kW charger at 30% SoC, charging starts as high as 205kW (if I precondition) but it’s down to less than 50kW when I stop charging at 85% SoC.

This is not the best chart, but I couldn’t find the one I had I mind. Part of an article showing charging at a 250kW charger saved 2 minutes versus a 150kW charger…

 

[RetMD21]

I have an upcoming 480 mile trip to a small isolated town. The Tesla app is estimating 53 minutes of charging to arrive with 35% of battery. If I switch up the recommended 2 stops to add a third, I can have a short am coffee/restroom stop and be in a good spot for lunch for #2. Depending on the duration of the lunch stop I might have more time than needed at a Sheetz in the afternoon. It looks like maybe 10 additional minutes over ICE. I don't think I'm going to be suffering much by not having faster charging.

 

[audreyh1]

Yeah, it’s really not an inconvenience for us at all. I do all the driving so I appreciate the breaks, and before you know it it’s time to move on.

Generally my charging stops are 18-22 mins. Just enough time to use the restroom, grab a quick (already packed) snack and review the route.

We’ve never been pedal to the metal road warriors. We enjoy a leisurely road trip. The EV hasn’t cramped our style at all, definitely enhanced it. DH is just so thrilled not to smell gas fumes or car exhaust stopping at a fuel station. The HEPA filter keeps those nasty road smells out of the car too. Lovely to drive.

 

[braumeister]

Interesting item from Mercedes-Benz about the anemic consumer demand for EVs.

Mercedes-Benz on Thursday delayed its electrification goal by five years and assured investors it would keep sprucing up its combustion engine models, becoming the latest carmaker to flag a weaker-than-expected appetite for battery-powered cars.
The company now expects sales of electrified vehicles, including hybrids, to account for up to 50% of the total by 2030 - five years later than its forecast from 2021, when it aimed to hit the 50% milestone by 2025 with mostly all-electric cars.

https://www.reuters.com/business/au...inflation-supply-chain-costs-bite-2024-02-22/

As Simon & Garfunkel put it, "Slow down, you move too fast ..."

 

[RetMD21]

Interesting item from Mercedes-Benz about the anemic consumer demand for EVs.



https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/mercedes-benz-hits-cars-returns-forecast-inflation-supply-chain-costs-bite-2024-02-22/

They were overly ambitious about being all electric by 2030. BEV sales in Europe were only up 16% in Europe last year. IDK if that's anemic. Maybe it is a Mercedes problem. They have struggled to compete and their dealers are seeing large unsold inventories. It seems to be similar to the situation for Ford.