ER and The Joys Of Being Wrong

[Joylush]

I'll pose a question in response that hits close to what some on this board and the other well known board suggest all the time, the manipulation of income to qualify for ACA subsidies. Legal? Yes. Moral (as those subsidies were intended for less well of people)? I'll let you answer.

I don’t fault anyone for maximizing the law to their benefit. Is taking more of my money just because I earned more “moral”?

Lower income people manipulate the system to their benefit all the time and it’s always at taxpayer expense. I don’t blame them, the system is to blame.

 

[ERD50]

ERD50 and Montecfo (and whoever else interested), I have a "let's tweak the question a bit" question:

How does the scenario of "a person choosing to default on a mortgage because it's underwater and letting the lender take the property back" change for you if you the lender is a close friend? Your mother? Your child? Does that change anything for you, and if so, why?

That's why I avoid doing business with friends/family.

When you deal with a business, it is business. That's all. That doesn't mean morals don't have a place in it. If some odd thing came up and the contract didn't cover it, and I saw a way to take advantage of it in a way that was obviously not intended, I'd probably not do that, over moral concerns.

Foreclosures are not an "out there" thing, that's why it is in the contract.

But to your point, I really can't see myself getting involved in a contract like that with a friend/relative. That's not skirting your question, there is a valid connection. A big lender can average these things over many thousands of loans. Some % of foreclosures are expected, it's just business. I can't do that with a personal home loan, it's far too risky to consider w/o doing many of them. I just would not put myself in that position. It's a non-starter.

But if I did, I need to be cognizant that anything put up as collateral to secure a loan has the chance of having a reduced value if I need to call it. I signed up for that, I better understand that, and be ready to accept that risk, regardless of the circumstances (outside of fraud, or breaking the contract in other ways, like not maintaining the house). But I won't so I wouldn't

-ERD50

 

[scrabbler1]

I just had to put my sibling family on "time out". Their politics are at one extreme, mine are what used to be the middle. Although I try to see both sides of most current political positions, they refuse to listen to any position outside of their echo chamber. It's maddening.

I don't care what your politics are, but at least if you understand both sides, discussion is possible. There's normally a reason that there are two sides.

I have put my 2 closest living relatives, my dad and my brother, on political silence. With my brother, it followed several years of mostly cordial debate in the 1990s until it got worse and we agreed, after our dad's suggestion, to stop. Only once or twice was there a thaw in that detente, and each time I reminded my brother, "Are you sure you want to go down this road again?" Thankfully, the thaw was brief, and neither of us really wanted to escalate the debate.

My dad, who was not very political, has become more political in the last 10 years or so, being unfortunately pulled by my brother in his direction. Not wanting to engage my (91-year-old) dad in debate which would resemble what my brother and I went through, I just suck it up whenever my dad mentions something political which I will inevitably disagree with, once in a while I have to suck it up pretty good .

 

[Chuckanut]

I”?



Lower income people manipulate the system to their benefit all the time and it’s always at taxpayer expense. I don’t blame them, the system is to blame.

So do wealthier people. Consider the Federal EV purchase subsidy $7000. Poor folk don’t buy new Teslas and most other EVs .

 

[Joylush]

So do wealthier people. Consider the Federal EV purchase subsidy $7000. Poor folk don’t buy new Teslas and most other EVs .

The $7000 is a tax credit. You have to have a liability of at least that amount to get the credit. Obamacare subsidies are given whether you actually pay any taxes or not. So in the first case your liability is simply lower that year, in the other case another taxpayer is paying the tab for your Obamacare. I don’t fault anyone for taking advantage of the system to benefit themselves. I may have an issue with the system, but not those using it to their benefit.

 

[Montecfo]

Or we can move on, that's fine too.

-ERD50

There are no more words as far as I can tell.

Be well.

 

[Chuckanut]

The $7000 is a tax credit. You have to have a liability of at least that amount to get the credit. Obamacare subsidies are given whether you actually pay any taxes or not. So in the first case your liability is simply lower that year, in the other case another taxpayer is paying the tab for your Obamacare. I don’t fault anyone for taking advantage of the system to benefit themselves. I may have an issue with the system, but not those using it to their benefit.

I agree overall. I simply point out that higher income folks also get
'goodies' from the tax system and other Federal programs. It's not like poor and low-income folks have a monopoly on feeding at the public trough.

 

[airforce1]

I am wrong about a few things:

1. Punitive parenting does not work but with counseling I've been slowly letting of my father's parenting style

2. Benign impact of conspiracy theories...my friend is unfortunately a Q-Anon follower and it really hurts me to see her like that.

3. I didn't think military retirement would help with FIRE but military pension + VA disability + SS + small bridge career has exponentially increased my chances of FIRE.

 

[Markola]

I have put my 2 closest living relatives, my dad and my brother, on political silence. With my brother, it followed several years of mostly cordial debate in the 1990s until it got worse and we agreed, after our dad's suggestion, to stop. Only once or twice was there a thaw in that detente, and each time I reminded my brother, "Are you sure you want to go down this road again?" Thankfully, the thaw was brief, and neither of us really wanted to escalate the debate.



My dad, who was not very political, has become more political in the last 10 years or so, being unfortunately pulled by my brother in his direction. Not wanting to engage my (91-year-old) dad in debate which would resemble what my brother and I went through, I just suck it up whenever my dad mentions something political which I will inevitably disagree with, once in a while I have to suck it up pretty good .

It’s all so sad. It’s also dumb, since the only thing we can individually do to have an impact is to vote. Privately. We ought to go back to doing that and then not talk about it anymore.