Having children.

[LovesLife]

Macdaddy,
So what happened? Did your dream become reality?

 

[MikeD]

People adopt their pets and love them as much as their children.

We're been married thirty years with no kids - on purpose. We never wanted any and I don't like them. Now dogs, them we love.

Mike D.

 

[MikeD]

And you'll be hard-pressed to find a parent to admit that they regret having kids.

Many of my more interesting male friends have said to me that they'd probably be happier if they hadn't had kids. This is usually followed by "But I love my kids." It seems quite difficult for them to admit it.

Mike D.

 

[laurence]

Many of my more interesting male friends...

I'm curious what your implying there? Don't you think if you are some one who "doesn't like kids" that you would find conversations with those who do boring, since you can't relate? Perhaps you finding them interesting is a matter of their more favored subjects being in line with yours? Eye of the beholder...

Having said that, I truly wish more people who aren't kid people would make your choice and not have kids. My heart goes out to children in households where adults allowed societies/family's expectations veto their own wants. To be a resented child, ach.

 

[REWahoo]

Many of my more interesting male friends have said to me that they'd probably be happier if they hadn't had kids. This is usually followed by "But I love my kids." It seems quite difficult for them to admit it.

So we are to understand that your "less interesting" male friends actually like children? It would seem you view that as a character fault?

And I'm not sure what your "more interesting" male friends are admitting...that they'd be happier with no kids or that they love them?

No problem for most of us to understand that apparent conflict. DW, a loving grandmother of 4, has the following sign posted on the refrigerator door:

"I childproofed my house, but they still get in."

 

[trharris]

We're been married thirty years with no kids - on purpose. We never wanted any and I don't like them. Now dogs, them we love.

Mike D.

You don't like ALL children? ANY of them? That strikes me as rather odd and sad.

 

[Nords]

I am also already feeling the pressure of having a child from my parents and from society in general. But as I told them, when the baby comes to life it will be my responsibility, not theirs.

Yeah, I bet a mature & responsible answer like that goes over really big with wannabe grandparents. They're probably beginning to regret not having the grandkids first.

But if they keep the pressure on, tell them you're willing to provide grandchildren if they're willing to provide 40 hours/week of childcare. Usually that stops the pressure dead on the tracks.

You don't like ALL children?  ANY of them?  That strikes me as rather odd and sad.

Hey, c'mon, no criticism, right? I know plenty of extremely happy people with no kids. I know a lot of people who'd be a lot happier if they had NO kids. I know a lot of families where I'd be a lot happier if they didn't reproduce.

You immediately know when your family is the right size (or at least when you've overshot the mark). Zero is just as credible a number as eight, and both numbers are bad if they're not what the parents wanted.

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

We're been married thirty years with no kids - on purpose.  We never wanted any and I don't like them.  Now dogs, them we love

tim the tool man taylor in episode where he's having emotional problems dealing with death & the drawing up of a will. "don't you remember, that's why we had children instead of pets; they last longer."

 

[trharris]

Hey, c'mon, no criticism, right? I know plenty of extremely happy people with no kids. I know a lot of people who'd be a lot happier if they had NO kids. I know a lot of families where I'd be a lot happier if they didn't reproduce.

You immediately know when your family is the right size (or at least when you've overshot the mark). Zero is just as credible a number as eight, and both numbers are bad if they're not what the parents wanted.

I agree completely. If you don't want kids, I have zero problem with that. If you want 10, fine. I just find the attitude of "not liking kids" kind of odd. I can see kids bugging you, or knowing some kids that you don't like, but it sounded (to me) more like a blanket - don't like any of them. You don't find that slightly intolerant? I mean, if I said I don't like old people wouldn't you be ??

 

[Nords]

You don't find that slightly intolerant?  I mean, if I said I don't like old people wouldn't you be  ??

Well, if you mean "unwilling or unable to endure", then of course they're intolerant. If you mean "prejudiced or bigoted" then I'd disagree. They've merely expressed their desire to not be a part of the Kids Fan Club. They're not hunting them down on street corners, they just choose not to associate with them. Seems perfectly reasonable to me, and even the legal system has agreed that some neighborhoods can be child-free zones.

There are a lot of unlovable old people in the world. I seem to be related to a disproportionately high percentage of them, but that's just me. I also dislike cooked spinach and beets, but no one has a problem with that...

 

[FlowGirl]

I find it no more odd than people who generically state they just LOVE children. I always think - "Really? Even the bratty ones?"

When someone asks me if I like children I always tell them that it depends on the kid.

 

[Arif]

My wife and I waited till we were married for 5 years before we had our son. It gave us time together to get to know each other. During that time we went back and forth wether we wanted kids, even got a dog to make sure we could take care of something besides ourselves. Once we decided to have just one child it took 4 months to get pregnant. For us it was the best decision we ever made. We don't miss the freedom to pick up and go. To tell you the truth I would rather spend time with my son than travel without him.
Shortly after having him our friends asked us "so when are you having another" I wish I would of had C-Ts response!
Just a couple days ago my son and I split some peanut M&Ms and he sucked the chocolate off and left the nut. I grabbed it from him and popped it into my mouth without thinking twice. Can't think of anyone else I would eat a used peanut from.

 

[Nords]

I find it no more odd than people who generically state they just LOVE children.  I always think - "Really? Even the bratty ones?"

"Yes, especially with a light garlic sauce."
-- Hannibal Lechter

 

[Ibid]

Many of my more interesting male friends have said to me that they'd probably be happier if they hadn't had kids.  This is usually followed by "But I love my kids."  It seems quite difficult for them to admit it.

Mike D.

Reminds me of sitting at the kitchen table with my Dad some time back. I asked him how he felt about the fact that none of his four kids had children of their own. His response: "I envy you."

I changed the subject...

 

[claire]

Hey Laurance, whats wrong with being "free from the chains of the capitilist dogs"? A worth cause such as freedom sounds good to me!!

 

[laurence]

I'll throw another quote at you, "Freedom tastes good, but it doesn't fill the belly!"

My only point was to ask, then what? Hey, I'm busily hacksawing away at my chains just like everybody else here. Also, I didn't mean to imply that you had to have kids to be happy, just that saying, "well, having kids would delay FIRE 2 years, so that's out" may not be a road one finds happiness on.

But please, really, if you don't think you want kids, not having kids is totally the right choice. They are a lot of work and sacrifice, and worry. My daughter got another hearing test this week and they think she has some hearing loss in both ears, right more than the left, so now we start a whole new round of appointments/treatments. For me, it's totally worth it, but I really wanted children.

On a side note, any other parents here find it odd when they have childless co-workers say things to you like, "Oh, I totally know what you mean, my dog had xyz happen and....".

I had pets before I had my daughter, it's not the same, not even close. Not upset at them for the comparison, they are trying to relate.

 

[Dreamer]

Here is things from my perspective. I was married at 19 and DH was 20. We were extremely poor. I had our first child, son, at 25 and our second child, daughter, at 35. I was extremely worried about whether I would like being a mother. I even went so far as to call about being a foster parent, to see if I could deal with parenting. When people would tell I would do fine, my thought was people who abused their own children probably thought they would do fine also. I used to worry about stuff much more than I do now. I was also pretty immature and irresponsible in my early 20's. Well, I did do fine and have never regretted having my children. They are a job and I look forward to granchildren someday if I am lucky. However, I would urge people not to have children unless they really want them and are ready to invest their time and yes, money in them, because they are a lot of work and money at times. When they are angry at you, you will probably hear that they hate you at some time in their growing up years. I don't know what I would do without either one of my children. I feel very blessed that I have them. The only thing that I would have done differently, would have been to have them closer in age. I have basically always worked full-time and thought I could only deal with one child at a time. I wish they would have been closer, but as they are aging, they are becoming closer.

Dreamer

 

[Nords]

...my thought was people who abused their own children probably thought they would do fine also.

I used to worry about that, too, but I've realized that not a judge in the land would convict me after they got to know our kid!

 

[Michael Moore]

However, I would urge people not to have children unless they really want them and are ready to invest their time and yes, money in them, because they are a lot of work  and money at times.

You seem to be somewhat of a rarity among parents with that attitude.  If more people without children could meet you instead of their own acquaintances they'd probably be much happier in their dealings with parents.

The "childfree" do see a fair amount of pressure in US (and others) society, and it is easy to get resentful.  It doesn't help when people give you the "oh, just have some children and you'll change your mind" line, often it seems right after they've complained about the latest episode of retrieving little Billy/Sally from the D-home.      It can make you want to reply "well, if you'd just get branded/spend some time in jail/become a member of the Heaven's Gate cult, you'd see that you like it".   :

My sweetie and I knew from the start that we had ZERO desire for children.  We are able to spend some time with a well-behaved child (shoot, some are better behaved and more interesting to talk to than some adults I know) but we've never had any p/maternal urges, and we took care to ensure there'd be no unexpected surprises.

If people want to have kids, more power to them.  But it sometimes looks like a situation of "any fool can have kids, and often does".  There are some great parents out there, but there also seem to be a significant number that if they had a dog that they treated they way they do their child, they would probably be on a first-name basis with the SPCA.  And I'm not so sure that being able to be a mediocre parent is something I'd view as being sufficient credentials for having a child.

Counting on a child to support you in your dotage is a crapshoot.  I've seen a number of elderly people who would be lucky to get the time of day from their "beloved" children, much less any kind of help.  "Blood is thicker than water" seems to be one of those catch phrases that is often not proven to be true out in the real world.

I like the concept of "friends are the family you get to pick". 

It sure would be nice if a lot more people would sit down and seriously evaluate their position on having kids before having them.  There's way too many neglected children in the world.

cheers,
Michael

 

[gtmeouttahere]

But it sometimes looks like a situation of "any fool can have kids, and often does".  There are some great parents out there, but there also seem to be a significant number that if they had a dog that they treated they way they do their child, they would probably be on a first-name basis with the SPCA.  And I'm not so sure that being able to be a mediocre parent is something I'd view as being sufficient credentials for having a child.
Michael

Yes please, if you are stupid, please stop breeding!!!

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Biological or adopted -does not matter. People adopt their pets and love them as much as their children.

I wonder if anyone adopts their children and loves them as much as their pets...

 

[Maximillion]

Way too much mental masturbation, just do it.

Yeah, they can be a pain in the arse at times, but they also give some purpose to the treadmill of life that no puppy or job can.

My shy, good looking, brilliant son who had problems with self esteem, now a 29 year old entrepreneur in China, fluent in Mandarin, Dean 's List, no puppy, job, or Friend could ever give you the same high.

Number 2 was just a whole lot of fun, never a dull moment, I remember when he was born my wife said "this one is going to give me a whole lot of head aches but I am going to hate when he leaves home."

He did, she does.

 

[youbet]

You seem to be somewhat of a rarity among parents with that attitude. 

Thankfully, my experience is the opposite of yours.  I find most parents share Dreamer's outlook, at least within the cultures I mingle with.  The occassional head case who can't handle responsibility or the pathetic abuser seems to get all the media attention.  The vast majority of loving, caring, responsible parents who are enjoying their families are seldom heard about.

 

[astromeria]

I'm not all that crazy about kids in general. Oh, I feel drawn to the occasional child. As things turned out on my daughter's wedding day (last Sunday...Mother's Day!), while bride & bridesmaids were primping and dressing over what seemed like forever (personally, primping beyond 5-10 minutes makes me suicidal-), I ended up spending a lot of time with the flower girl: my ex's 8-yr-old with ADD that few can stand to be around for long, including her own family. We had a nice time talking and accomplishing stuff. She was one of those kids I can somehow relate to, and she obviously liked me as well. I seem to respond to dismissed/emotionally needy kids and guess I haven't met too many of them among my family & friends. I also get on well with my cousin's son with something akin to Asperger's--I'm one of the few adults he'll hug. And yet, when it's pass-the-baby time or admire the toddler's ringlets time, I usually find something else to do (often, talking to the guys). I prefer 'em old enough to talk to.

I was immature when I had my children in my 20s. And yet my dormant maternal instincts fully flowered even before my kids were born, and I believe I was rather a good mom--certainly judging by the results . I'm glad I had kids, but there are moments when I'm not. Especially when my daughter works in Africa or my son's doing something adventurous dangerous like winter hiking. The problem isn't the expense or the time rasigin children--it's the worry! Like with any deep love, there can be intense pain as well as intense joy.

 

[TomSimpsonAZ]

Before anyone has a child they should read this book:

When Parents Love Too Much

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/15...f=pd_bbs_1/104-1912051-9053563?_encoding=UTF8


Personally I believe this book sums up the reason that my generation is going to go through a lot of problems as times get a little tougher here in the states just from the natural cycle of things.