So DW and I are chafing at our low contribution rate to our retirement portfolio, and looking to get Draconian on our spending. I've been eating a packed lunch every day so far this year, and it's working well, home cooked meals etc. and we will probably come in about half of the usual monthly food bill. We are now looking at our utilities and cable is looking next to go. We cut HBO first and found we didn't miss it after a couple of weeks, now we are looking to cut T.V. altogether from the bill and pair down to an offer from our phone company for phone and internet @$40/month. My question is, can you get HIgh definition via bunny ears? I heard that was part of the law congress passed, but is it feasible, or do you have to live within 30 feet of the tower? Either way, cable is gone, but I wanted to see if anyone had explored this ( I've already sunk the fixed cost of the HIgh def t.v., seems like it's worth exploring).
High Def over bunny ears?
- Thread starter laurence
- Start date
REWahoo
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give
Laurence said:
If the signal strength is good enough, yes.
Go to this website http://www.antennaweb.org/ and enter your address (give your neighbor's address if you want
). It will tell you the direction, location and freq of every over-the-air station in your area, whether they are digital (HD capable), and what type of antenna you will need to get a good signal.You're welcome.
REWahoo
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give
Oh yeah, you will also need to have a HD receiver if it isn't built in to your set...
yeah, it's not built in, so the start up costs look steep. According to the site, I need the large, contribute to SETI type rig to get most of the channels, that along with the HD reciever could push this into multiple hundreds of $$. But it would probably only take six months to make the money back...
Alex
Full time employment: Posting here.
- Joined
- May 29, 2006
- Messages
- 696
Personally, I think you need to live more in the present moment. The future comes awfully fast. TV is harldy a splurge! Get what you want for godsakes! Live today, you might be dead tommorrow. 
wabmester
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2003
- Messages
- 4,459
cute fuzzy bunny
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Everyone needs bunny ears
Find out what your cable company offers in the way of basic analog cable. Some offer the "first 13 channels" (basically abc/nbc/cbs/fox, maybe cnn or a couple of those) and some have the "first 25" where you get espn and a couple of others. Generally a lot cheaper than the 40/60 channel 'extended basic' and often unadvertised unless you ask for it.
You can also do what we used to do. Buy a basic series 1 or series 2 tivo with lifetime service on ebay. Then that becomes your user interface and you can switch between basic cable, basic directv and basic dish network using their promo deals, then cancelling when the promos expire. You can usually get good prices on a six month deal and usually they require that you havent been a customer for the past six months.
You wont have a lot of channels but the tivo will hoover up anything you're interested in to watch at your leisure.
Other option is to call your current provider and tell them you'd like to cancel because its more than you want to pay and that you're just going to use an OTA. Appear open to sticking around if theres a deal and ask for one. "Do you have any retention deals or specials?". Avoid getting pinned into getting a deal for buying a higher level more expensive service.
95% of the time they'll give you the six months $19.99 for extended basic cable or $10 off a month for the satellite basic services. Touch and go on getting it two or three times in a row as I hear some of the providers wont offer serial 'deals' back to back.
Last time I called I got them to give me the internet for $29/mo for a year instead of 57/58 and $25/mo for cable for six months.
Even if you have little problems, call and constructively complain. Directv had a problem with their tivo's for the last month or so and some programs didnt record properly. I called and told them it was pretty annoying and that we didnt get a few of our regular shows, would they give me a credit for my troubles? $20/mo for six months.
All that having been said, plenty of providers will just cancel you and send you off. It never ceases to amaze me that a company will agree to take no money instead of some money from a customer.
Find out what your cable company offers in the way of basic analog cable. Some offer the "first 13 channels" (basically abc/nbc/cbs/fox, maybe cnn or a couple of those) and some have the "first 25" where you get espn and a couple of others. Generally a lot cheaper than the 40/60 channel 'extended basic' and often unadvertised unless you ask for it.
You can also do what we used to do. Buy a basic series 1 or series 2 tivo with lifetime service on ebay. Then that becomes your user interface and you can switch between basic cable, basic directv and basic dish network using their promo deals, then cancelling when the promos expire. You can usually get good prices on a six month deal and usually they require that you havent been a customer for the past six months.
You wont have a lot of channels but the tivo will hoover up anything you're interested in to watch at your leisure.
Other option is to call your current provider and tell them you'd like to cancel because its more than you want to pay and that you're just going to use an OTA. Appear open to sticking around if theres a deal and ask for one. "Do you have any retention deals or specials?". Avoid getting pinned into getting a deal for buying a higher level more expensive service.
95% of the time they'll give you the six months $19.99 for extended basic cable or $10 off a month for the satellite basic services. Touch and go on getting it two or three times in a row as I hear some of the providers wont offer serial 'deals' back to back.
Last time I called I got them to give me the internet for $29/mo for a year instead of 57/58 and $25/mo for cable for six months.
Even if you have little problems, call and constructively complain. Directv had a problem with their tivo's for the last month or so and some programs didnt record properly. I called and told them it was pretty annoying and that we didnt get a few of our regular shows, would they give me a credit for my troubles? $20/mo for six months.
All that having been said, plenty of providers will just cancel you and send you off. It never ceases to amaze me that a company will agree to take no money instead of some money from a customer.
The HD "terrestrial" receivers are $200 or less (e.g. http://tinyurl.com/2ht5de).
The idea of an "HD antenna" is kinda a marketing scam. Digital TV signals
are broadcast on the various UHF frequencies. Thanks to compression,
several stations, including one HD one, will fit in the same bandwidth as was
formerly allocated to a single UHF station. So the "HD antenna" is simply a
UHF-optimized antenna. Once you can get all the stations in digital, you have
no need for a VHF antenna anymore. One exception is if the only recorder you
have is a VCR, you may want to connect a VHF antenna to it so you can get
those analog stations for recording purposes. Of course, DVD recorders are
now very affordable, so you may want to just use that for your recording
purposes as well. Also, once analog goes away (soon), it may be that the
analog frequencies start having digital stations assinged to them.
I second the recommendation of antennaweb.org, and also recommend
soldsignal.com as a source for antennae and other gear.
The idea of an "HD antenna" is kinda a marketing scam. Digital TV signals
are broadcast on the various UHF frequencies. Thanks to compression,
several stations, including one HD one, will fit in the same bandwidth as was
formerly allocated to a single UHF station. So the "HD antenna" is simply a
UHF-optimized antenna. Once you can get all the stations in digital, you have
no need for a VHF antenna anymore. One exception is if the only recorder you
have is a VCR, you may want to connect a VHF antenna to it so you can get
those analog stations for recording purposes. Of course, DVD recorders are
now very affordable, so you may want to just use that for your recording
purposes as well. Also, once analog goes away (soon), it may be that the
analog frequencies start having digital stations assinged to them.
I second the recommendation of antennaweb.org, and also recommend
soldsignal.com as a source for antennae and other gear.
Also, not sure why you'd want to receive TV anyhow. It really sucks.
It sounds trite to say ... But formerly I think there were TV dramas worth
watching, like "NYPD Blue" and "West Wing". Now about the best you can
do is "Grey's Anatomy", ok but not in the same league IMHO. About the
only network TV I watch besides PBS in the Letterman/Ferguson silliness.
The best stuff is on HBO. But don't pay those cable bills, sign up for netflix,
paying less, and watch stuff like "Deadwood" and "Sopranos" on your own
schedule.
It sounds trite to say ... But formerly I think there were TV dramas worth
watching, like "NYPD Blue" and "West Wing". Now about the best you can
do is "Grey's Anatomy", ok but not in the same league IMHO. About the
only network TV I watch besides PBS in the Letterman/Ferguson silliness.
The best stuff is on HBO. But don't pay those cable bills, sign up for netflix,
paying less, and watch stuff like "Deadwood" and "Sopranos" on your own
schedule.
Well, we want to get just the basic 13 channels, but we'd like to get them in HD, not analog, and we thought OTA was the only way to go. My cable company makes you buy their extended cable package first, then you can get Hi Def on top of it. .
We were considering putting some of our proceeds to a netflix/blockbuster subscription, between that and hi def PBS we would be golden. I'll call the cable company and see what they say.
. We were considering putting some of our proceeds to a netflix/blockbuster subscription, between that and hi def PBS we would be golden. I'll call the cable company and see what they say.
So I went to fry's and bought a vhf/uhf combo ant. with a 25db signal amplifier built in. No dice - no signal. Just to make sure I wasn't doing something wrong, tried it on my upstairs analog t.v. and can just barely get CBS - very fuzzy. I think I'm just in a bad place for a signal. The website posted said I needed a maximum gain megalithic outside ant. about thirty feet wide with E.T.'s speak and spell hotwired in to stand a chance of getting more.
I'm going to call my cable company and see if they'll cut me a deal on basic cable w/high def.
I'm going to call my cable company and see if they'll cut me a deal on basic cable w/high def.
wabmester
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2003
- Messages
- 4,459
FWIW, we pay $20/mo for Dish Network's family package.
And google FTA satellite for some wild and crazy fun. (I recommend the ViewSat VS2000 Ultra.)
And google FTA satellite for some wild and crazy fun. (I recommend the ViewSat VS2000 Ultra.)
Wow, yeah, we just got off the phone with Cox, they will reduce us to the 13 channels plus 7 high def channels on Monday. But our savings is only $27. So instead of $120 a month we are paying $93 for:
Phone - In state free and long distance 5 cents
High Speed internet
Cable
Phone - In state free and long distance 5 cents
High Speed internet
Cable
cute fuzzy bunny
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Just note that some channels dont broadcast in HD at all.
The ones that do, only some program content is actually broadcast in high definition.
Of those, some are SD thats just upconverted to 720p (or whatever).
Next thing you'll note is that on the channels that are high def, with shows that are really high def...that you can see the dang makeup on a lot of the actors and football players are even uglier in HD.
I guess a lot of actors are pushing for fancy "high definition makeup" paint jobs now that their shows are in HD.
The ones that do, only some program content is actually broadcast in high definition.
Of those, some are SD thats just upconverted to 720p (or whatever).
Next thing you'll note is that on the channels that are high def, with shows that are really high def...that you can see the dang makeup on a lot of the actors and football players are even uglier in HD.
I guess a lot of actors are pushing for fancy "high definition makeup" paint jobs now that their shows are in HD.
maddythebeagle
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2005
- Messages
- 2,450
RustyShackleford said:
We do the same thing and dont have cable....dont forget Entourage...I just finished season 1 and 2 on dvd...pretty funny....even the good shows on network tv like house come out on dvd pretty darn fast...
thefed
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2005
- Messages
- 2,203
wow. i just spent 2 hrs searching forums. can you eityher answer here or pm me some more info? how hard to hook up? how much did you ivest? how much time to keep getting keys to unlock the channels? what kinds/how many channels do you get?wab said:
cute fuzzy bunny
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Dish network was the worst customer experience of my life. Bad equipment, bad installation, lousy local channel picture quality, and they tried to screw me when I canceled. Theres a good reason why they've been successfully sued by a number of state attorney generals offices.
Price looks great, but read every word of every piece of fine print before you sign anything. You'll be required to perform every contract to the letter.
Price looks great, but read every word of every piece of fine print before you sign anything. You'll be required to perform every contract to the letter.
wabmester
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2003
- Messages
- 4,459
Cute Fuzzy Bunny said:
Sorry to hear it. We've been with Dish for 7 years at two houses, and they've always been responsive. The Family Package at $20 has everything we want (except HGTV), and it even includes several cool channels not inlcluded in the 120 package we had (DIY, science channel, etc).
thefed said:
Fed, didn't you already have a brush with the law? Stay away from this stuff, d00d. They'll probably make an example of you.
Anyway, google is your friend. The truth is out there.
Reciever was about $170. Interface is a little geeky. USB makes flashing new firmware a breeze. "Autoroll" makes key management hands-off. Setup is trivial if you have an existing dish, and I try to stay legit by maintaining my subscription. It's just for hobby/educational purposes!
BigMoneyJim
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Yes you can get HDTV over antenna. As said above, HDTV (or more generally DTV) is sent over the same frequency range as old TV and can be picked up by the same antennas. antennaweb.org is a great resource.
TV stations are in a transition period now and are broadcasting on two different channels...one for NTSC analog TV and one for DTV (ATSC). Most of the DTV channels are currently UHF where most of the major NTSC channels are VHF, so pragmatically an antenna working for NTSC may not work well for DTV, but it's due to UHF vs VHF and not HD vs analog.
The Terk antenna linked earlier by wab was absolutely worthless to me. To be fair, though, I was using it inside an apartment with the apartment complex, IND International airport and downtown Indianapolis between me and the Indy antenna farm.
However, this Radio Shack antenna (only $15 versus $40-$50+ for the Terk) did pull in the signal where the Terk wouldn't. When I bought it a couple of years ago I had to order it; the link I just gave says "in store only", so I'm confused. Anyway, it's a fantastic UHF antenna for the price and brings in the higher VHF channels decently, too. It's twin-lead, so you'll need a 300-ohm to 75-ohm thingy to connect it to most antenna connectors.
Amplifiers do not help reception. They only help keep the signal from degrading due to attenuation in the antenna cabling. An amplifier will not make a small antenna better, but it will help a signal survive over 6 feet of antenna wire if it's close to the antenna end.
There a couple of really good big UHF antennas you can get relatively cheaply. I'll look for my antenna links and report back here.
TV stations are in a transition period now and are broadcasting on two different channels...one for NTSC analog TV and one for DTV (ATSC). Most of the DTV channels are currently UHF where most of the major NTSC channels are VHF, so pragmatically an antenna working for NTSC may not work well for DTV, but it's due to UHF vs VHF and not HD vs analog.
The Terk antenna linked earlier by wab was absolutely worthless to me. To be fair, though, I was using it inside an apartment with the apartment complex, IND International airport and downtown Indianapolis between me and the Indy antenna farm.
However, this Radio Shack antenna (only $15 versus $40-$50+ for the Terk) did pull in the signal where the Terk wouldn't. When I bought it a couple of years ago I had to order it; the link I just gave says "in store only", so I'm confused. Anyway, it's a fantastic UHF antenna for the price and brings in the higher VHF channels decently, too. It's twin-lead, so you'll need a 300-ohm to 75-ohm thingy to connect it to most antenna connectors.
Amplifiers do not help reception. They only help keep the signal from degrading due to attenuation in the antenna cabling. An amplifier will not make a small antenna better, but it will help a signal survive over 6 feet of antenna wire if it's close to the antenna end.
There a couple of really good big UHF antennas you can get relatively cheaply. I'll look for my antenna links and report back here.
BigMoneyJim
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
There's a site out there somewhere where a guy calculated the effectiveness of various antenna models. I can't find the link now, but my comments on the quality of antennas are based on my memory of that site.
I bought the Winegard PR4400. It's a bit big for inside use but not out of the question. I was in an apartment, so I mounted this on a pole and strapped the pole to my deck railing. This antenna was the best price/performance ratio I found. It's only $20. It's "UHF Only" but does get okay reception of the high VHF channels, too. A somewhat better performing antenna of the same configuration is the DB4, but it costs 3x as much and is only a few percent better.
The DB2 is bigger and significantly better performing than the RadioShack antenna I listed earlier but half the size of the 4-bay antennas (the DB4 and PR4400). Many forum posters I read used this indoors, but at $40 it's twice as much as the PR4000.
8-bay antennas like the DB8 and the CM4228 are twice as wide as the 4-bays but are top of the line in receiving UHF signals. If you have a place outside to mount this and a mast-mounted amp I expect you can get your HDTV signals just fine with one of these. (Assuming your HD channels are UHF.)
If I recall correctly the Antennas Direct DB-series outperformed others in the same configuration, but probably not enough to justify their price margin.
Unless your antenna is right by your receiver, get an amplifier and mount it by the antenna. There are two-piece amplifiers where the power unit is in the house and plugs into the wall and the antenna cable. The amplifier mounts on the antenna mast and gets its power from the power unit over the antenna wire. Some of them have FM trap switches where you can filter out the FM signals which may help TV reception if the TV signals are relatively weak. (FM band is smack in the middle of VHF.) I bought my mom a CM amp for about $75, but I don't recall which one offhand. It works great and supposedly has the lowest distortion of the retail amps. Actually I think they call these pre-amps (as opposed to distribution amplifiers for splitting signals). Remember, an amplifier improves the cable, not the antenna. An amplifier won't make an inadequate antenna adequate, but it will make a long cable usable.
A final note on bunny ears: The two collapsing rods are for VHF reception. Usually laying them flat or in a wide V is the best bet. The hoops are for UHF reception. In both cases the wires are perpendicular to the line to the TV station's antenna. (The antenna wires don't point to the TV station's antenna.) In many cities there is an antenna farm where all the stations have their towers; if so you're lucky and just point your antenna towards the farm.
By the way, now in DFW I'm using the RadioShack UHF antenna inside. I'm watching the NFC championship game with it right now. I just had the first reception problem in 7 months, but it was due to my having moved the shelves earlier, so just repointing the antenna fixed everything. I'm about 11 miles from the farm with no major obstacles between us, so reception is much easier here than I had in my Indy apartment.
I bought the Winegard PR4400. It's a bit big for inside use but not out of the question. I was in an apartment, so I mounted this on a pole and strapped the pole to my deck railing. This antenna was the best price/performance ratio I found. It's only $20. It's "UHF Only" but does get okay reception of the high VHF channels, too. A somewhat better performing antenna of the same configuration is the DB4, but it costs 3x as much and is only a few percent better.
The DB2 is bigger and significantly better performing than the RadioShack antenna I listed earlier but half the size of the 4-bay antennas (the DB4 and PR4400). Many forum posters I read used this indoors, but at $40 it's twice as much as the PR4000.
8-bay antennas like the DB8 and the CM4228 are twice as wide as the 4-bays but are top of the line in receiving UHF signals. If you have a place outside to mount this and a mast-mounted amp I expect you can get your HDTV signals just fine with one of these. (Assuming your HD channels are UHF.)
If I recall correctly the Antennas Direct DB-series outperformed others in the same configuration, but probably not enough to justify their price margin.
Unless your antenna is right by your receiver, get an amplifier and mount it by the antenna. There are two-piece amplifiers where the power unit is in the house and plugs into the wall and the antenna cable. The amplifier mounts on the antenna mast and gets its power from the power unit over the antenna wire. Some of them have FM trap switches where you can filter out the FM signals which may help TV reception if the TV signals are relatively weak. (FM band is smack in the middle of VHF.) I bought my mom a CM amp for about $75, but I don't recall which one offhand. It works great and supposedly has the lowest distortion of the retail amps. Actually I think they call these pre-amps (as opposed to distribution amplifiers for splitting signals). Remember, an amplifier improves the cable, not the antenna. An amplifier won't make an inadequate antenna adequate, but it will make a long cable usable.
A final note on bunny ears: The two collapsing rods are for VHF reception. Usually laying them flat or in a wide V is the best bet. The hoops are for UHF reception. In both cases the wires are perpendicular to the line to the TV station's antenna. (The antenna wires don't point to the TV station's antenna.) In many cities there is an antenna farm where all the stations have their towers; if so you're lucky and just point your antenna towards the farm.
By the way, now in DFW I'm using the RadioShack UHF antenna inside. I'm watching the NFC championship game with it right now. I just had the first reception problem in 7 months, but it was due to my having moved the shelves earlier, so just repointing the antenna fixed everything. I'm about 11 miles from the farm with no major obstacles between us, so reception is much easier here than I had in my Indy apartment.
BigMoneyJim
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Cute Fuzzy Bunny said:
Usually the non-HD channels offer several SD channels. Here in DFW there is a 24-hour music video channel without commercials, but only over DTV. PAX TV has several SD subchannels on DTV. And generally the SD reception is better over DTV than anaglog. Several major stations offer 24-hour news channels and/or 24-hour weather channels as subchannels. It's not all about HD.
It's true that sometimes HD makes a face less flattering. It's a new challenge, and the end effect is varying, but I notice some broadcasters have got it figured out...they're either really good at makeup or are soft-focusing, but soft-focusing in HD still looks better than SD.
Also, sports in HD gives you some unattractive details sometimes, but overall it adds a lot to the viewing experience. You can pick out players and coaches on the opposite sideline and individuals in the stands. It really sucks for me to watch football in SD now.
All that said, I'm not sure it's really worth the expense to upgrade yet. I spent too much. I enjoy it, but it wasn't a frugal move by most measures. Plus, after we get all this UHF antenna stuff figured out they'll probably exit the transition period and they may all go back to VHF after that and have to re-figure the antenna situation again.
BigMoneyJim
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
(Now I'm driving up my post count...)
On the traditional bunny ears with the rods and loops: For VHF the rods work fine for me so far. In Indy I had one VHF DTV channel that my small UHF antenna wouldn't pull in well, but the simple bunny ears worked great for that one.
So far, though, those UHF loops seem to largely be crap. They can work, sort of, but never well for me.
The placement of the indoor antennas are important, too. Try putting them in different parts of the room. By a window with the blinds up worked well for me, as did high in the room.
For grins I set the UHF loop outside with an amplifier to compensate for the longer cable, and I was able to get a couple of DTV channels in Indy with it, even with the airport and downtown in the way. All my antennas got better reception outside.
I experimented with placing a baking sheet, a baking rack and/or tinfoil behind the antennas as a reflector...I could improve the signal sometimes, but not reliably enough to keep it that way.
On the traditional bunny ears with the rods and loops: For VHF the rods work fine for me so far. In Indy I had one VHF DTV channel that my small UHF antenna wouldn't pull in well, but the simple bunny ears worked great for that one.
So far, though, those UHF loops seem to largely be crap. They can work, sort of, but never well for me.
The placement of the indoor antennas are important, too. Try putting them in different parts of the room. By a window with the blinds up worked well for me, as did high in the room.
For grins I set the UHF loop outside with an amplifier to compensate for the longer cable, and I was able to get a couple of DTV channels in Indy with it, even with the airport and downtown in the way. All my antennas got better reception outside.
I experimented with placing a baking sheet, a baking rack and/or tinfoil behind the antennas as a reflector...I could improve the signal sometimes, but not reliably enough to keep it that way.
Cable companies are required by law to carry local unscrambled HD channels (the same onces you can get with an ATSC antenna.) Your HDTV will need a QAM tuner to pick up these stations.
I tried QAM and we could get 2-3 channels with basic cable. We decided to upgrade to digital cable and we get about 11 which is unfortunate. The video quality on the digital channels is much better than what we were getting over on basic analog cable.
I tried QAM and we could get 2-3 channels with basic cable. We decided to upgrade to digital cable and we get about 11 which is unfortunate. The video quality on the digital channels is much better than what we were getting over on basic analog cable.
Similar threads
